WRKC935

What frequency? Where at? You seriously can't come on here and ask that general of a question and expect an accurate answer. Could be ducting like Marc said. But it could be any number of different linked repeater systems. I was hunting around and just recently found a group that is using ham radio RF MMDVM hotspots on GMRS frequencies that are all linked together. If someone reasonably close has something like that you could be hearing it. Remember that there are other repeater systems out there besides this one.

Oh I am fully aware of how simulcast works. I am the specialist for design and implementation of such systems for the company I work for. I have built out, reworked and do ongoing support on several of them for public safety. I have designed several more systems that were implemented by our other shops or were too expensive for the client and weren't built out. But yeah, I am fully aware of the requirements. And I doubt that we are ever going to see a large (greater than 3 site) simulcast GMRS system. The cost is too great to pull it off. And 'free' site locations are never going to be in the needed location for the system to operate correctly and have the correct overlap of coverage. So you're gonna need to go on paid sites if they exist in the window they need to be in, or erect towers in those location windows which is gonna be a minimum of 75K per site before you start looking at the cost of equipment. My stuff all used channel banks that had T-1 interface between the sites and microwave links that provided that. I have looked at it at length. Considered POSSIBLY doing a two site system... but I seriously doubt it. And I have the channel banks and microwave gear to do it. Hell I have the repeaters, duplexers and GPS reference gear for two sites and possibly three. But I do all this out of pocket. No membership fee's or dues. So it would all fall on me and I lack the motivation.

Has anyone bothered to ask if the PL tones were listed in the posting for the repeater here on the site. If the tones are posted,,, chances are it's OPEN. I answer one or two requests per week and the repeater is listed as being OPEN. I would rather that people just use my repeater as they need to and NOT ask for permission. And yes, my tones are posted. No need to scan anything. Have you monitored the channel and even verified there is an active repeater on the frequency any more? Might verify it's still active before asking about getting access to it. But again, if the tones are posted, use the repeater. For those of you that don't want other people on your repeater either post the repeater as being CLOSED or don't post your tones. Better yet, don't post the repeater at all. But don't blow a gasket when someone comes in and parks an OPEN repeater on your pair. One of my favorite things to do.

OK, and where is that happening exactly? Certainly not on the MidWest system, or the MYGMRS system for that matter since that is specifically watched for and not condoned. Now, true simulcast would be nice on GMRS. Where the same frequency pair is used at multiple overlapping sites to provide coverage to a larger area without taking up additional frequency pairs. It's also quite expensive, requiring voters, simulcast audio controls that are GPS disciplined to enable the ability for it to work. Not to mention that EVERY repeater on the system would need to match exactly, same model and even firmware so the delay internally to the repeater would all match. Yes, that's possible, yes it works, and I have personally done it with public safety radio system on VHF / UHF and 800 Mhz. But again, it ain't even close to being cheap. I run two repeaters. One is linked and the other is NOT linked. Reason for the second repeater is simple. It allows locals to chat without tying up repeaters in 4 to 6 states for a conversation that is happening in the coverage area of my single repeater. The repeaters are all on the same antenna system and run the same power levels so the coverage is a dead on match. These three antenna's (one receive and two transmit) have a total of 3 GMRS repeaters and a UHF ham repeater currently. There will be an amateur radio packet data repeater added later this year. But since I have a large coverage footprint, I of course run all my GMRS repeaters as OPEN repeaters for all to use that have a license to access them. This keeps folks from needing to spend time and a lot of money to put up a repeater, but also leaves open pairs if they want to do so.

Yeah, as Shannon said there are specific regulations forbidding this. The other issue that comes up with doing this is the entire repeater allocated frequency range exists in a 200Khz bandwidth. Meaning that if you are trying to 'listen' to another repeater signal and then transmit to the next 'hop' you have a transmitter and a receiver in the same 200Khz bandwidth. The transmitter will swamp the receiver and you will either go deaf, or the receiver will lock on to the transmitter thinking it's the desired signal and the thing will loop up and not stop transmitting. If you are dead set on doing this. It needs to be engineered correctly and linked via some other means. This would typically be some sort of IP linking using either the internet or microwave links between the sites. The equipment and methods that are used for the MYGMRS repeater system are not some super secret proprietary technology. It's a reuse of a ham linking system called AllStar Link or ASL. This runs on a software add-on that runs on a IP PBX called Asterisk. In other words an IP based phone system. That technology could easily be used to link multiple repeaters together and be fully closed so that your repeaters were the only equipment on that specific system. And that would probably be the best option for this. Now I will also say that linking a bunch of repeaters together and taking up a number of the 8 repeater pairs we have available isn't going to make you real popular if there are others that are wanting to put up repeaters. So be aware of that as well. If you are going to do it make sure that it is going to fill a need.

Yeah, but YOU built it, not Hallicrafters. And I bet that they needed to send completed units to the FCC to test them before they could sell the kits. I don't know that for certain, but it could have been.

I do love how GMRS operators seem to argue the rules, where the hams flip the hell out if someone even comes close to bending one pertaining to ham. Well, outside of the whole cutting the MARS block so they can talk to the Po Po. And the continued argument of testing requirements. Part 15 testing IS TESTING for compliance. So if HAM radios have to meet PART 15, then they have to be tested. I never said it was specifically for part 97. Only that there was SOME form of required testing done by the FCC for MANUFACTURED radios for the ham bands.

I keep reading over and over that the FCC doesn't require any sort of testing or type acceptance for ham radio gear. Yet I have the July QST magazine in my hand with the new Kenwood TH-75A on the back cover and down at the bottom of the page it clearly says: THIS DEVICE HAS NOT BEEN AUTHORIZED AS REQUIRED BY THE RULES OF THE FCC THIS DEVICE IS AND AND MAY NOT BE OFFERED FOR SALE UNTIL AUTHORIZATION IS OBTAINED. I think that the second most misunderstood regulation in ham radio is the type acceptance, manufacture authorization rules. As a ham operator you can build your OWN gear. You can sell that gear to others. No testing or type acceptance required. Manufactures don't have that. They have to meet certain requirements. Type acceptance, or some level of testing to be approved for sale in the US. Yes, there are requirements for MANUFACTURED ham equipment to be sold in the US. While that might not be 'type acceptance" testing, there is indeed testing that has to be done for manufactured equipment. So, not only is the idea that runs around some circles in the ham community that they can cut the TX block out of their ham radio to talk to the police "just in case" but the lack of a requirement for testing of manufactured ham gear is also not technically correct.

Seems I can't type...... Or proof read before posting at times.

Can't believe I am gonna do this again.... especially after saying I wasn't... but here we go. First issue. WHO'S GONNA MANAGE IT? Who's gonna assign talk group ID's and radio ID's? How is it gonna be linked if at all? Are we gonna allow some form of trunking? Motorola has Cap Plus trunking, but those levels of trunking are tier 2 and proprietary. Meaning your 50 or 100 dollar cheapie radio ain't gonna work. Motorola radios only. And no linking with that. Unless of course you are gonna want to pony up the 2000 bucks for the license for EACH repeater, and the grand for the special router that's required. No old analog radios can be used. So all your analog radio's are no longer usable. Period. Buy new radios. The biggest issue, is management. Someone needs to create a database and keep track of all the assigned radio ID's and talk groups so that nothing overlaps. This is going to be really important with linking two or more repeaters together. Speaking of which, a maximum of 15 repeaters can be linked together. To exceed that, you need a D-Bridge to route the talk group traffic. Who's buying those? Ya'll are gonna get me banned off here posting this damn question over and over. You want DMR, go sit a test and get a ham license. They use it all the time, and they have this worked out. We (GMRS community) don't. There are requirements to DMR we don't have currently with analog wide band FM. The service works fine on analog. And even the arguments for area's that are using it for 'sorta' public safety like SAR and such. Go get a damn commercial repeater license and a couple simplex frequencies for your group and put in your own communication system. Because that's the nonsense that will turn GMRS into HAM radio and ultimately CB. I have been a ham for 30 years and watched it happen there with people having zero respect for the service get licensed for EMCOMM use for their SAR and CERT groups. Sure commercial is a bit more expensive, but ONLY ONE license needs to be obtained. If you set the license up right, and get national frequencies, then ANYONE regardless of the license they might have on another service can use your radios, or you can grant them access to program their radios to be on your licensed frequencies. It's really not that difficult to see it's a better option.

Wait. I just looked up the call sign you posted. He has a repeater listed IN Kaufman. The PL isn't listed so I don't know if it matches what you have listed here. That repeater is NOT 70 miles away from Kaufman, It's in Kaufman. I don't see any other repeater in a 70 mile radius on 625, so I am gonna guess you aren't listed. Gonna guess you don't have a lot of footprint either. Not sure what to tell you on this. If he dropped a repeater in place on the freq you are using, running the PL YOU were using, and it has that sort of footprint I am seeing on the map on here. I would turn your repeater off and start using his instead. When he questions it, tell him you were there first and he started interfering and your just turned your stuff off. But you were operating on the freq with that PL in that area before he showed up. He can like it or reprogram his equipment and change his PL. But I can't find your listing. While there is no requirement to have your repeater listed. If you don't list it, then no one else is gonna know it's there when they are in process of putting up other equipment on the frequency.

So, he's 70 miles away, same freq and PL. And somehow he's 'interfering' with your local users during their nets? You're gonna need to explain the 'interfering' part a bit better. Are they just hearing that repeater when yours is not transmitting or are you getting hetrodyne interference when both are transmitting or is he completely blanking your repeater from being received? How far are your users from the repeater? Are they closer to that repeater than yours? I know this is a LOT of questions, but I need to know these things to actually tell you what can be done. If he's being heard at 70 miles at all, he's obviously got a good bit of elevation on his repeater antenna. What about yours? What power level are you running, antenna height, antenna gain and coax type you are using. Are HIS users bringing up your repeater at any point or are you just hearing his repeater in your operating area? Is the interference consistent or only certain times of the day? Some days and not others? What sort of coverage footprint did you system have prior to that repeater going on the air. Radius of 5 miles, 10 miles, 20 miles or greater? At first look, it would seem that he's running a high gain antenna and a power level far exceeding the 50 watt limit we have with GMRS. Or your system is under engineered and designed. But my system talks and hears 60 miles and is only getting 12 watts out of the building after the losses in the transmit combiner. Receivers work on 'capture' so to speak. A transmit signal need to be great enough to capture the receiver and hold the signal at a level high enough that other offending signals are NOT strong enough to interfere with that 'capture' and be heard over the other signal. This is regardless of the PL involved. If your users are only hearing that repeater when your repeater is NOT transmitting, then it's really not 'interference' in the eyes of the FCC. If his signal is overriding users within 5 miles of your site, and they are hearing that repeater over top your repeater, then that's considered interference. Some other questions. Is your repeater listed here or on any publicly searchable database? Does it have a coverage map that is CORRECT? If the answer no, then how would the other guy know that you were on the air, and if your coverage doesn't reach his site, then he would have zero idea that he was interfering at all. I am not trying to defend anyone here. I am just looking for technical solutions to your issue. But if you are running a 5 watt Retivis repeater on a 30 foot pole with a unity gain antenna. The fix is different than if you have 400 feet of height on a db-420 (9dB gain) with 7/8 cable and running a 100 watt MTR repeater turned down to 50 watts. And creating harmful interference to the Retivis is a bit easier than interfering with the MTR and 400 feet of height.

Noticed I had replied to a threat in every group except this one. Couldn't resist .... Now I am the last post in every group on the forum... for at least a couple minutes.

I will give it a try

Dumb question, but is 151.625 even have a license class attached to it. There is so much crap that is sold that uses that frequency, I don't know that iit has a requirement.

First thing I recommend is to stay away from the answer books that just give the questions and answers to memorize. While those will get you licensed, they aren't really in the 'spirit' of ham radio. You should want to learn something about the inner workings of radio as part of what motivates you to get a ham license. If you already have a strong background in radio, then closely study the rules of ham radio SPECIFICALLY for the license class you are testing for. Depending on the license class, the frequency allocations are different. And that's a LOT of what you are tested on. So know that stuff. Having that stuff down cold will help if you run into technical stuff that has complicated formulas and math to work out and get wrong. The test is not broken up in such a way that you have to pass each part. You just have to answer enough questions in the overall test. As others have mentioned.... do the online study practice tests. Take several and make sure the ones you are using randomize the questions each time. Taking the exact same test over and over will only teach you the answers to THOSE questions. If they don't ask those questions on the test, you are screwed and will probably fail. When testing, consider each answer. At least one will be totally wrong, but two will at least seem correct. So think on those two answers. Only one is right unless it asks for more than one answer Good luck. The tests are not super difficult. I am sure you will get through it and can become a Sad Ham too.

Yeah, don't lurk... get on and say hello. Ask questions and feel free to actually participate in the forum.

Couple places and it will depend on what you are wanting to learn. If you are looking to learn about radio in general, get an ARRL handbook. Yes, it's for ham radio..... but the important part is the RADIO. UHF radio, be it ham, commercial or GMRS is still UHF radio. That's where to learn how antenna's have gain, what coax loss is and how it really effects your signal. Important stuff that is all in one book. They also printed a VHF/UHF operators manual that covers those parts of the spectrum fairly well. Lastly is the FCC web site and the specific regulations and discussion of part 95 (the GMRS service). That will explain a lot of the rules and what you can and can't do specific to the GMRS service

First, I have a Suburban in that model range. Thinking your luggage rack bar's are plastic coated. Meaning you have no ground. That will run your SWR high and make the signal going out and coming in SUCK. Honestly, bite the bullet and put in a through hole mount. Yes, it's a hole in the roof. But it's a 99 Chevy Suburban. If you told me it was a 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit I would say something else. But it ain't. It's a good vehicle but it's not new or even close. The performance you gain will be worth the effort. But DROP THE HEADLINER part way to know where the stiffening ribs are at in the roof so you don't try to drill into them. That will ruin your day. NMO or SO239 mounts are your choice. But the NMO mount will offer more of a selection for antenna's. Figure out if you want ham and GMRS or just GMRS. Choose the antenna based on that decision. I have mentioned elsewhere that the super gain mobile antenna's are great for their designed frequency range. But SUCK when you are 10 Mhz away from it. Lower gain antenna's will have a wider frequency range. And contrary to the popular belief 3 or even 6dB of gain difference will have little effect on the real world performance of the antenna when talking on the radio.

Forgive me but I am a bit lost here. When you say send the 'repeater' a command. Are you referring to outputting DTMF from the audio interface of R-Pi to the actual repeater/secondary controller or are these internal ASL commands to be processed the same as if they came in off the air? I do the radio stuff fine. I am one of the people that has very successfully taken a CM108 audio dongle and built a proper working interface for the repeater and got my levels all correct so it don't sound bad on the air. But my Linux abilities are a bit lacking and my ASL knowledge is worse. But I do have a thought / request if it could be implemented, scripted or however it would need to be done. My network connection to the tower site is a Microwave link, and it can drop from time to time. Of course this boots me off the system. If a script could be created that would look at ASL and see if I am attached to a specific node and if there is no connection run a script to connect me back up that would be VERY handy. Second issue, for some reason, and it might be the network dropping, don't know. My Pi will occasionally go dumb. Stops running ASL, almost like it has a memory leak or the CPU gets overloaded. I can log into it, but rebooting it is impossible from the command line. To the point sudo commands that are suppose to panic the kernel don't work. If there was something that would auto reboot the Pi, although I don't know how it would work, and then reconnect the node that would be a God sent as well.

Well, while you seem to have some understanding of this from a high level, the repeaters have little to do with it. The linking happens at an IP level across the Internet, not RF site to RF site. Tenn, does actually have some linked GMRS repeaters but not on the MyGMRS system. They run a private system that I know for sure exists in the Gatlinburg /Pigeon Forge area at least and extends into two neighboring states. That being said, there is nothing restricting you from putting up your own repeater and linking it to the My GMRS system from where ever you land in Tenn. But, Tenn may NOT be considered a "MidWest" state and you may find out that the system fathers prefer you link to one of the eastern hubs and not 169. But that is not my call. Just a reminder before you go put a bunch of money down on a repeater system to find out you can't put it on MidWest. reason I bring that up is you specifically posted the linked "MidWest" repeaters on your attached photo. I would discuss with the major players of the MidWest system Your intentions prior to committing to purchase of equipment. I am trying to grow Ohio currently. I am actively hunting sites to install equipment on and look to put up at least two more repeaters in the central Ohio area myself this year. That being said, this is not an activity for those that are not well versed in radio communications equipment and the support of it. I work as a commercial radio tech. GMRS and Ham radio are my hobbies. But I can speak from first hand experience that finding assistance for repeater site support and equipment repair and maintenance if you can't do it your self to run right around 100 to 150 dollars an hour for that service. That is going to be a pretty consistent number. If you find a tower site and are required to have professionals (most always the case) do the climbing and installation of an antenna system. That cost can easily run 4 to 6 thousand dollars for a single days work. And we haven't talked about the cost of antenna's, feed line, duplexers, a repeater or any of the other costs involved including a mandatory requirement for an Internet connection at the site for the actual link. And the state to state, town to town communications that you see as being such a wonderful thing is only as good as the ISP level of service at your site and the site you are linked to. If either are down fro any reason, you will be down until the Internet service is restored.

OK, thought more on this. The nodes need two different UDP ports. So right now they are assigned 4569 right? Assign one to 4570 or something else and then try again. Remember that you will need to configure your firewall for the second UDP port for passthru and if you are using the remote SSH you will also need to change the passthru and port on the Pi to 223 or something other than 222.

Static on receive is typically caused by one of two things. First is signal levels from the transmitter (repeater) you are listening to isn't sufficent to fully capture the receiver you are using to monitor the transmitter. Second possibility is that something is loose in your antenna system and not making 100% contact all the way from the antenna to the radio. This could be a bad coax, loose antenna or part in the antenna, or even a loose RF connector on the radio. Go through the system, verify the cable isn't pinched or damaged in any way and that all connections are tight.

Wow, that is the most truthful, accurate, and spot on post I have seen from you. Don't really care about the ham license thing,,, well that and I watched about 2 minutes of one video and dismissed the guy, so not really living rent free in my head. But others,,, yeah, I can see that. Oh, and he seems to actually favor those cheap import radios.... what's up with that?

Well the node controller should have control of the PTT on the repeater. And it will allow local repeat function, so I would highly advise you to set the repeaters as base stations and run them that way. Are these both in close proximity to each other and have a similar coverage footprint? If so you might consider running one as a linked repeater to the system of your choosing and leave the other one as a stand alone for local traffic. If the coverage is the same of very similar then it's a waste of resources to have them both linked to the same system taking up two different repeater pairs with matching traffic on them.