wrci350

It's not a matter of "who is smarter". I'll use my favorite saying again. There are the GMRS rules. There are what people THINK the GMRS rules are. And then there are what people thinkg the GMRS rules SHOULD BE.

Is that not where this topic is?

Show me the paragraph in the *current* GMRS rules (Part 95 E) where it says that. Oh wait, you won't be able to do so, because there IS no paragraph where it says that. What it DOES say is that you can have a radio certified for Part 95 E and "another section" as long as it cannot transmit on Part 97 (amateur radio) frequencies. But the manufacturer still needs to submit for Part 95 E certification in order for the radio to be legal on GMRS. Nowhere does it say that Part 90 radios are automatically OK to use on GMRS.

I'm sure they all have Part 95 type-acceptance too, yes?

Don't have that particular radio and the RT Systems software for it, but I have their software for a number of other radios and you can certainly do that. Just save the codeplug (programming) to a file and send it to someone else. The only thing you might want to watch out for is that the other person might have the settings on their radio different than what you have, so you might have to adjust.

Go read Part 95 and then come back and show us where it says that. Hint: it does not. Yes, the manufacturer submitted that model of radio for certification some time in the past. In order to be legal to use on GMRS, the radio in your hand has to be in the same configuration as the one submitted for certification. If it's not, then it is no longer certified, and does not meet the FCC requirements for the GMRS service.

That's not an accurate statement. The FCC rules state that only a radio that is type-accepted for Part 95 E can be used on GMRS frequencies. Nowhere does it say, "but it's OK for you to use your ham radio that's been 'opened up' (either by hardward modification or via software) as long as you have a GMRS license too".

Yeah Part 15. Just like every other electronic device that's sold in the US. Has nothing to do with Part 97.

Yes, your indignation is truly hysterical. "older hams" ??? Huh? Since when do hams dictate the FCC rules? The rules for GMRS and FRS were last revised in 2017. According to my calendar app, that's six years ago. Where do you get "so many years"? Keep in mind too that the perception of GMRS as "ham lite" or "the new CB" is a very recent thing. Most "older hams" have no interest whatsoever in GMRS, so why would they care? Obviously the Big Three ham radio manufacturers aren't as willing to play fast-and-loose with the FCC rules.

What "license"? Radios are type-accepted, not licensed. Not sure what point you are trying to make. The GMRS rules DO allow a radio to be type-accepted for Part 95 E and some other part ... but they are not allowed to transmit on Part 97 frequencies. So you cannot have a legal radio that is GMRS and 2m/70cm. And of course VHF and UHF are FAR more than just the Part 97 frequencies, yet you say "2m/70cm" (which IS ham).

Looks like I should have stated it differently. If the radio is capable of transmitting on the GMRS frequencies while opened up, that does not comply with GMRS rules. The fact that you are transmitting on 462.5500 instead of on "Channel 15" makes absolutely no difference.

If it can still transmit on GMRS channels while also being able to transmit on 2m/70cm, then using it on GMRS falls outside what is "legal" per FCC rules.

Radios are not "licensed", they are type-accepted. FRS type-acceptance is here: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-B/section-95.561 GMRS, here: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-E/section-95.1761 There is no type-acceptance required or even available for amateur radio (Part 97). If a vendor claims they have a radio that is "licensed" (sic) for amateur radio they are either very confused or flat-out lying, since there is no such thing. If you read those sections you will see that a rule will be granted type-acceptance for FRS only if it meets all the FRS rules, and that no radio that can operate under FRS rules and "any other paragraph (except 15)" are not allowed. So a legal FRS radio is FRS-only, but definition. GMRS *does* allow certification under Part 95E and another paragraph (i.e. Part 90) but specifically forbids certification of a radio that can operate under Part 97 (Amateur Radio). So again, under current FCC rules, you cannot have a 'legal' GMRS radio that can also operate on 2m/70cm. As far as the writing being on the wall, it sounds like The Big Three aren't interested in putting out radios that can be used under Part 95 illegally. The last point seems reasonable ... but that's not how the rules are written. Feel free to petition the FCC to change them.

There is no ambiguity. Part 97 does not require type acceptance so using a Part 90 radio is perfectly fine, and there are many hams who use older Motorola or Harris commercial radios. One needs to be aware of a couple things when using a Part 90 radio: 1) As @Sshannon shows above, many Part 90 radios will do 136-174 and 400-480 MHz. Obviously most of that range is NOT amateur radio (or even MURS or GMRS) so you need to make certain you are only transmitting where you are authorized to do so. 2) Unlike amateur radio, the FCC regulations for MURS and GMRS *do* require radios to have type acceptance, and a Part 90 radio like these does not have that type acceptance and as such is not authorized for use on those services.

What MARS/CAP mod? It's a Part 90 radio so it will cover 2m/70cm as well as MURS and GMRS. Not type-accepted on MURS or GMRS, of course.

How close together are the two radios? If you are holding one in your hand and the other is on the table in front of you, you are more than likely desensing the receiving radio so it cannot "hear" the repeater. Try having someone take the second radio to the other end of your house, or outside a couple 100 feet away, and try again.

I have a diplexer and a triplexer and they are both good to 500 MHz or above. I checked The Antenna Farm's website and all the ones they carry that are VHF/UHF split (no HF or 220) go to at least 470 MHz, with most going to 540. Cost is around $50 or so

Worked fine for me.

Well, like it or not, FRS users have just as much right to those 22 channels as GMRS users. Unless the FCC can go back in time and not ever allow those FRS/GMRS bubblepack radios, we're stuck with sharing. As far as repeaters go, if you run with both transmit and receive tones on a repeater you'll never hear someone using an FRS radio unless they happen to pick the same tone as what you are using on the output, correct? You are right about the "everyone can hear you" part, and it's not just kids who don't understand that.

I think you're misreading the post. ? This is how I'd paraprase it: "If you are lost and have FRS/GMRS radios, call for help on channel 3.0. SAR teams can use that channel to talk to you if there is no other means. Others are encouraged to monitor 3.0 (and NOT use it for routine communications) and call 911 if they hear the lost party." I see no indication that SAR teams use FRS/GMRS to communicate internally.

No, because a "site" in a simulcast system isn't a tower, it's a group of towers, all transmitting the same information at the same time on the same frequencies. So there is no way to lock out all but the closest tower, since all the others are using the same frequencies. That's the whole simulcast issue. The signals come in slightly out of phase due to the varying distance between the transmitters and receiver, which totally 'confuses' a conventional receiver. The SDS scanners are SDR-based and able to deal with the out-of-phase signals. There are other solutions (which are also SDR-based) but none of them are scanners in the conventional sense. Subscriber radios can also handle the simulcast (of course) but that's not an option for most people. In your particular case, you have "won the simulcast lottery" since you are close to one of the towers, and the transmissions coming from that tower effectively drown out the others and the receiver can decode the digital stream. My luck is not that good, and my BCD352P2 is lucky to even lock onto a control channel of the local P25 system, and even if it can, I get at best snippets of voice traffic. In the OP's case, it looks like there are 11 towers in his county that make up one simulcast site. Again, if one lived very close to one tower then a non-SDS scanner would probably work OK. Otherwise? Not so much. This is a very frequent topic over on RadioReference. There are a vocal few that proclaim, "Well, it works for me so it should work for everyone" and that's simply not the case. I would LOVE IT if the BCD325P2 worked on the local TRS. I would never have purchased an SDS scanner if that was true!

NXDN too, although it and DMR require a key to unlock them (which cost $). I have a BCD325P2 scanner and I love it. It's the one I take when I go for a walk outside or on the treadmill at the Y. BUT ... if one is trying to listen to a simulcast P25 system (which the Minnesota statewide system is) the odds are very much against you. Chances are it will work very poorly or not at all, unless you happen to be very close to one of the towers in the site you want to monitor. The only scanners available that are designed to monitor simulcast systems are the Uniden SDS100 and SDS200, which go for $650 or $700 new. I *wish* the BCD325P2 could handle simulcast. But it doesn't.

A lot of them come with "extra channels" (cough cough) as already discussed; they are just the same frequencies with a pre-programmed (and perhaps fixed?) tone. Pretty sure the Motorola and Midland FRS radios (many of which were classified as GMRS/FRS before 2017) don't have any tones on 1-22 out of the box. Contrast that to some of the CCR GMRS radios that come with tones on every channel, rendering them unable to interoperate with other brands unless the tones are removed (or added to other radios).

Nor amateur radios. There is some use of P25 (simplex) in the ham world, but folks who are into that use commercial radios (normally old used ones). You won't find an off-the-shelf amateur radio that does P25. Keep in mind too, that we're talking simplex, not trunked. P25 trunking systems are a whole 'nother animal. While there *are* other options, a scanner is by far the most straightforward.

Thanks. I don't think I've ever checked a county in Minnesota in the RadioReference DB before. Looks like most public safety (and other services) is on a state-wide 800 MHz P25 Phase I trunked system. Not much encryption (knock on virtual wood), but none of those HTs will pick up traffic on that system. The one thing I do see for your county is a couple analog Fire channels, which are probably patches from the TRS. But if you're not interested in monitoring public safety then no big deal. @NotaSAABGood luck with your hunt and keep us posted!