PACNWComms

I have run fender and trunk mounted antennas on several cars, with good results. While not the best position as the ground plane is not equal, use the shortest cable run necessary, do not kink or bend the cable beyond bend radius, use the correct connectors and fewest adapters (if any), and give the antenna mount a good ground to bare metal. These methods will still get you great range for UHF and other bands. I manage 12-16 miles with a twenty watt DB20-G mobile and a Tram antenna on my rear fender. The antenna does not extend above the roof-line. Picture in my gallery page, as well as VHF and UHF antennas on previous car running a 45 watt Vertex VX-3200. Fender mounts will work, with just a little impact from its position. Mount your antenna to the fender and then report the results here, so others can learn from your install. Each vehicle and hardware install is different, but can provide insight to others.

Here is a link to a good source for television channel and frequencies used. Vertical separation is the best method if you need two antennas, television and other UHF, in close proximity. I use vertical separation myself in commercial radio (mostly 800 MHz), and for the UHF antenna underneath my VHF antenna of my house. The issue I have is when I use two slot Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA), Motorola Trbo radios in digital mode, you will hear the TDMA "flutter" sound of time slot switching in speakers of many nearby computers, radios, and television sets. This noise will only be noticed if you are using DMR (Digital Mobile Radio) though, so analog GMRS would be fine. https://www.rfwireless-world.com/Tutorials/TV-channel-frequencies.html

Great series of Vertex radios, the VX-4200 series. When working for the oil industry, these were the "go-to" radio for a fleet of small (less than 72 foot vessels) that needed commercial radio comms on board. This was also based on the caveat that corporate had decided to end the installation of radios in smaller vessels, and vehicles to save money. The (corporate decision-makers) thought was that handheld radios could hit everything that was required in all roles, in that case, handheld Motorola PR1500 VHF radios. However, the West Coast required repeaters and radios with more output power than a handheld radio, so Vertex VX-4200's were used as a "cheap" option that could escape the corporate types scrutinizing the budget. We did not use the scan function activating on hanging up the mic, and often tore the small wire off the mic mounts when the radios shipped with that version. Other came with a separate piece of wire to connect to the mic holder. The only issue we ever had was the metal cases would rust when left in "open house" style vessels, where the radio was exposed to the elements. Great write-up on this radio. It would be a great mobile to use for GMRS. For 14 years, I ran the older and slightly smaller VX-3200 VHF and another for UHF, stacked in my car for commercial and GMRS use. My only warning about using the VX-3200/4200's is that some of them are not capable of narrow band operation (12.5 kHz) operation, as there was a problem with some of the filters during manufacture in Japan. High humidity meant that they would only work in wide band (not a problem for GMRS). For a while, Motorola would fix them, later ship replacement filters, and then stopped supporting them. These radios with faulty narrow band filters were the last of the VX-3200, and first run of VX-4200 radios (made before the narrow band mandate of January 2013), being supported by Motorola when they purchased Vertex. (There were also some issues with some Motorola and Icom radios that used the same filters).

+1 on the CDM1250, or in my case CDM1550LS+ as I already had them. Since you are experienced with radios, commercial gear will server you very well at the power you want (50W). Although, I also use a Radioddity DB20-G mobile as a base and as a mobile. Had to get two as they work pretty well for price and size. Went with a new vehicle and stacked VHF/UHF Vertex VX-3200's would not fit the new car, DB20-G would fit into dash like it was meant to be there, so it is my mobile. Liked how it worked and programmed, so got one for base station. However, already had little portable power supply with radio stacked on top, made of Motorola CDM1550LS+ and another with XPR5550e mobile, which do work a lot better, just larger and heavier when moving around. For oil industry I used to make a lot of mobiles attached to power supply as portable base station good for 45-55 watts in UHF/VHF....many ended up in hurricane response trailers, staging sites, and command posts. Good luck on making a GMRS base station, and in my own opinion, for base station use, I always try to get a desk mic.....as it just feels better than the mobile mic for use in vehicles. That makes the radio "feel" like a base station.

Outside of license costs, I am glad that the hardware has come down considerably over time. Old school amateur/GMRS radio thirty-forty years ago was very expensive. Now, a person can get started for a fraction of the cost. Saying this as I look at my old 1980's Cobra 2000 GTL AM CB radio that has aged like wine, and is now worth about $1200.......when I paid $400. Or the Realistic Pro-2006 scanner that used to sell for $400 in the early 1990's, now worth about $50-100. My first true FRS/GMRS radio was the original Motorola TalkAbout, and those on sale cost $50 each, so $100 to get started since I needed a second radio/person to talk to. Now, they proliferate the market at the price and lower.

I know people that have delayed renewing licenses due to these cost (commercial radio is a lot more expensive). I myself hesitated a bit, but then thought about it in terms of dollars versus years the license is valid. The, it doesn't seem so bad. Although, adding fees for the amateur side where there was none before, while still making me print out my own hard copy annoys me a bit. But, the fees do pay for some of the documentation, administrative work, and keeping up the database.

I recall when my previous employer in the oil industry started to receive Motorola Trbo XPR8400 repeaters and XPR6550 handhelds. I used my Aeroflex 3550A test set to check for receive sensitivity (UHF), which was between 0.17-0.20 uV. My boss said "I don't believe you", so he walked down to the lab and grabbed a few handhelds and checked for himself. He was impressed, as previous radios (Motorola PR1500's) were no around 0.25-0.35 uV, everything else being the same. In spec for UHF, but not as good as the digital capable handhelds. The XPR8400's and Quantars were essentially the same, with the XPR series repeater having digital capability, it was a one for one swap infrastructure wise. Those surplus UHF Quantars ended up in many local Auxiliary Communication Service (ACS) roles ever since (this was around 2010 or so). Quantars are one of the best repeaters ever made, and will serve any person or organization well.

As a former Zetron/JVC/Kenwood Group engineer, I'll second the, "I'll spend my money on Motorola first" epiphany, due to real world experience. Great write up on the details and advice given here. Currently, I am sitting on about 100 corporate Quantar repeaters, 800 MHz units that served the company well for a decade, only to be replaced with GTR8000's as a planned replacement/upgrade. They sit in storage until a new site needs to be stood up, as they just work. I mentioned how they were the "cockroach" of the radio world when corporate wanted me to surplus them, as they would probably still work throughout the next ice age, doing their job until something physically breaks. Sadly, 800 MHz spectrum is becoming hard to come by, and I wish they had been UHF 450-470 MHz Quantars, as they would be more useful to me now in 2022. Like the OP, I will not be getting rid of any of my Kenwood gear either, but look at the use case and decide from that what to spend. (Often being Motorola, but I did buy a Radioddity GM-30/DB20-G package and an Anytone AT-878DUV II Plus a while back as well.) Also a +1 on SunnyComm, has worked with them for many years as well. Out of several hundred radios, only two were ever received in non-working order, both due to damage in shipment. However, they made good on them, and have a great repair policy as well. Will continue to work with them as much as possible. Great people, and business there. (I have made purchases on behalf of my employer and my own hobby use with Used-Radios.com/SunnyComm.)

+1 on this.....but then there is the joke, just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should do something. I once saw in the military, a Marine connect about 100 feet of RG-58 coax onto an Icom IC-F43GS handheld radio. Upon further inspection, I noticed it was not even a continuous length of coax, but several lengths of RG-58 with BNC connectors and barrel adapters in between each segment (and adapter at the antenna connection to the radio). He wondered why he could not hear anyone or get out during transmit. This became a training moment on radio theory and coax line loss.

I'm in the process of going through a similar audit for my local mall.....as the noise floor continues to go higher and higher. This was after a corporate user was found using FRS/GMRS Midland T70 radios, when licensed spectrum was being used by the previous license holder, instead of my corporate users, as they heard radio traffic on those radios and channels/frequencies. In many areas, it is common for end users to not know the status of their licenses, and continue to use the radios and system after a license has expired. Part of that is the lack of enforcement and compliance inspections, poor record keeping, lazy radio shop workers, and other factors.

+1 on this. Sunny Communications a.k.a. Used-Radios.com is a great company to deal with, and will get you what you need. Have dealt with them for years and spent more of my and corporate money than I probably should have with them. In many cases they are the only ones still sitting on product, even if slightly older gear from Motorola and other manufacturers. I also recently used them to prove a point to my current employer: pay full price direct to Motorola and wait six months to receive the item, buy from a local Motorola reseller for a little less and wait a few months, or go to Sunny Comm and buy current stock at one third the price as "new old stock" in their current stock, receiving the item a week later.

What interests me in this thread are two things, first is that many people seem amazed when they get an inferior product from Amazon (this has happened to me a few times and I now refuse to buy radio cables from that source. Second, is how many people are buying radios that do not come with a programming cable. When I purchased my GM-30 handheld and DB20-G mobile, as a package, the package had the correct cables for programming both. The cables were the Prolific type, which meant getting the correct driver, but I had experienced that with some Baofengs years earlier, so not too much of an issue. One reason I bought the Radioddity package was because it came with the programming cables.....I like to have one cable per radio for my Cheap Chinese Radios, as few of them that I have, as they sometimes go in different directions or are loaned to friends. Getting the package means a higher likelihood of getting what you need correct.

I know a few people that say that these work for them. But, I have no personal experience with this conversion kit. I still use the old fashion needle. https://www.rfglobalsolutions.co.uk/still-using-your-old-bird-43-rf-watt-meter-why-not-let-us-upgrade-your-old-analog-meter-to-to-digital-readout-display/

Yes, +1 on that one being a dud. I have used about a dozen of them myself, and they work very well. Leave them in line with many mobile Motorola radios. When I first started using them, I was paranoid and checked with Bird 43 and similar slugless Thruline wattmeters. They all get calibrated when new, and then left in place. Some for several years now. Attached is a picture of one that I used recently with a Motorola XPR4550 mobile. Great little units, even though made in China. I buy these through Amazon, so if I get a dud, it can be sent back easily.

Larson are still great antennas. Larson and Laird are the mainstay of a fleet of vehicle antennas I have used for decades now (NMO New Motorola style that is). Although, buying from Tessco, I sometimes get ones that are rebranded, but are clearly either Larson or Laird in construction and design in their packaging. For some installs Stico is the "go to" now though, as many vehicles get parked in underground garages and I need the increased flexibility of the Stico.

Sadly, this ended a few years ago, with the implementation of "i3" (Intelligent Third Generation) 9-1-1 Public Safety Answering Point network requirements. Everything around the PSAP, telephone service providers, and data within 9-1-1 infrastructure must be sent via SIP (Session Initiation Protocol) which also meant changes for sending ALI/ANI information. Sort of like P25 standards for common air interface for radio, and set data rates...etc. CallerID information is now queried instead of just sent along as it used to be. Bummed me out too as my Zetron 3010's made crank and spam calls very interesting. Now, only a few come in with full information, and mostly from landlines (which is now only about 20% of my own inbound calls).

I use Zetron 3010 ALI displays that were part of the 3200 series telephone "Call Taking" systems. They provide a line for "name" and another for "phone number" but also show landline address, or wireless cell phone tower lat/long, then if they get the second "rebid" from an ALI database, the lat/long of the cell phone GPS. They will also show which first response elements are responsible for the callers location: police, fire, ems (emergency medical services), and usually a line or two of notes. Cellular calls will have the carrier name: Verizon, ATT WRLS (American Telephone &Telegraph Wireless), etc. However, they are not stand alone in that respect......you need access to an ALI database or something for the 3010 to query from to display information. I have several and an older copy of a local database, but have also connected one to an alarm system and another just to a keyboard for messages (the one shown). Zetron had numbered product lines: 1000 was SCADA, 2000 Paging Systems (yes, they are still in use many places), 3000 Call Taking, 4000 (Radio) Dispatch, 5000 DFSI dispatch, numbered box products, and then MAX series, and highest end Acom Novus. For the first 30 years, most of this was connected to Motorola radios, until they were bought by the JVC/Kenwood Group, then sold last year to Codan of Australia. I would consider the 3000/4000 series to be the best gear for a 9-1-1 Public Safety Answering Point, unless they can afford Acom Novus ($1 million plus cost). Zetron's hayday matched that of Motorola in my opinion, 1980-1990's. But, you do need more than the device to get expanded Caller ID....a connection to an ALI database, Internet access, old electronic phone book.....I have seen some creative uses.

There are some holes in the collection, especially with mobiles. I am the traditional radio hoarder, and have mobile data terminals, and lots of gear around, but most of it doing something. I would say about 85-90% Motorola thanks to the oil industry and planning for hardware replacement. Then Kenwood/EF Johnson/Zetron.....working for them helped that a bit, corporate "yard sales" where day three everything went for free as ""e-waste" costs the company money. My Zetron ALI display shows the entire caller ID data, as the entire data stream is sent, but consumer grade equipment only shows name and number, two lines.

Those System Saber radios were awesome. I still see some in use in some parts of the country, especially California law enforcement. I myself still use a VHF Astro Saber Model 3 for some uses as well. Had to eventually upgrade to a Lithium Ion battery, which makes it slightly shorter now, and required a newer multi-chemistry charger. But still a very capable and useful radio. If mine were in UHF, they would be used for GMRS for sure. I gave two away to amateur radio type friends and now only have two myself. They were removed from a maritime environment, spares for use on motorized barges used to transport oil products along the West coast. The Saber radios do have excellent specifications for the time they were manufactured.

If it were not for MURS (and analog AM aviation comms), I think my Realistic Pro-2006 and Pro-2032 scanners would never get used anymore. I am close enough to several cities that decided to protest and self destruct certain areas, coordinating via MURS, as it provided the longest range and unlicensed band for VHF comms. Then I also heard many of them move to GMRS frequencies as well. Dual band, and cheap radios mean that both MURS and GMRS get a lot of use. Makes for some interesting listening. My local Wal-Mart still uses MURS, as does Lowes and possibly Home Depot at a few of their stores in my area. I have seen a few RDM series Motorola radios on the hips at some larger home improvement stores, some look to be VHF while others are UHF.

The addition of a counterpoise definitely helps my Baofeng GT-3's and Anytone 878 as well. I do know many people that still use the magnet mount antenna and vehicle charger route for handhelds, and it does help a bit. Somewhere I still have a magnet mount antenna for AM CB, but use lip mounts for mobile and handheld radios in cars now.

I bought several Baofeng GT-3 radios about five years ago through Amazon. These were touted as being better because they came with a 23cm antenna that supposedly helped range over the stock antenna. Then I bought the same radio, but this one came with a very flexible, shorter and thicker antenna. they both worked the same, one just had a very thin, longer, but still flexible antenna. I never noticed any real world issue with each antenna, pro or con. the one with the longer antenna just became a better pointing device. Granted they are Baofeng, and might get overloaded easily, but they both work the same from a "my ear" and usable range perspective. I never connected these to test equipment to quantify any metrics though....not even sure where one of them is these days. But they did serve to get me back on the air when I wanted to find out what the rumors were about these new cheap radios that came into the market.