SteveShannon

The "book answer" is that moisture and precipitation have little effect on VHF and UHF signals, but I've definitely observed that it can happen sometimes. A few days ago, we had very heavy fog and drizzling rain and I couldn't get through to my usual repeater 20 miles away with a HT. Even with the base unit, I had to punch it up from 12 watts to 20 to be understood clearly. That's the first time I've had that happen, but it wasn't the first time we've had fog and rain around here, so there must be some "perfect storm" of conditions to make VHF/UHF noticeably attenuate due to precipitation. The problem with "book answers" is that my radios didn't read the book.

You weren't kidding...   And I read most of it.  It kinda sucked me into a dork vortex.  And I liked it...

HRO has radios set up for hams to try also.

They do slightly, and moisture or particles in the atmosphere can increase attenuation, but the main reason distance matters is because the radio waves become less dense as they occupy more area. Higher gain antennas minimize that.

So now you’re also an expert on propagation of UHF in Connecticut? What is your need to act like such a complete douche?

Does the radio CPS allow you to set a baud rate?  I do not see any setting that allows shifting / selecting baud rate.
One sure way to identify the correct port is to unplug the usb cable at the computer end while watching in Device Manager to see which com port disappears. 
Went at it a little differently - opened Device Mgr. (cable not plugged in) - both com ports greyed out.  Plugged in cable - com port 3 lights up - checked CPS, com port 3 designated in port settings.  Seems like the handshake between radio and the CPS is working as I can see a "program" icon on the radio screen when I initiate a "read" command from the CPS.  Maybe time to chase this back through Radioddity.

For the first situation it depends on the sensitivity of the receivers and the gain and pattern of the antennas, but with Yagi antennas you might easily get a couple hundred miles. 
With our earth’s curvature it’s down to about 15% farther away than the optical horizon.

Yup. I used the HRO in Woodbridge, VA to make the decision on my first HF and they were super helpful. I had plans to ride out to the New Castle, DE store today, but cancelled because they are sold out of both radios I was considering (TS-590SG vs FTDX 10D (distant second choice)).
Ended up ordering the TS-590SG from DXE this morning to replace my 11 year old TS-590S, mainly due to updated noise reduction and the ability to use with an SDR.
@tweiss3 - I think I've seen you someplace before, LOL!

Device Manager indicates two comm ports - both of which I've used for these tests and the CPS seems to follow when I designate which comm port I've selected / connected the cable into.  BTW these radios are brand new (to me) as is this attempted programming.  They seem to work very well and, to this point, I'm pleased with them.

I thought this would be a good test for the A.I., so I wanted to see how Grok would answer - you are all now obsolete because it totally out-dorked all of you.

Key Points Flat earth: Communication distance is about 3900 km. Real earth: Communication distance drops to about 11 km due to curvature. Flat Earth Scenario In a flat earth with no obstructions, two 5-watt UHF radios can communicate up to approximately 3900 km. This is because, without curvature, the signal can travel in a straight line, limited only by signal strength, not physical barriers. Real Earth Scenario On a real earth, the distance is limited by the line of sight, which is about 11 km for two people each 6 feet tall. This is surprising because it’s much shorter than the flat earth distance, showing how earth’s curvature significantly restricts radio range. Survey Note: Detailed Analysis of UHF Radio Communication Distances This section provides a comprehensive analysis of the communication distances for two 5-watt UHF radios under two scenarios: a flat earth with no obstructions and a real earth considering curvature. The analysis includes all calculations, assumptions, and supporting details to ensure a thorough understanding. Flat Earth Scenario: Theoretical Maximum Distance In a flat earth scenario, with no trees, buildings, or curvature, the communication distance is determined by the signal strength and free-space path loss. The problem specifies two six-foot-tall people with 5-watt UHF radios at the same elevation, with only air between them. Frequency Assumption: UHF radios operate between 300 MHz and 3 GHz. Based on typical usage, a frequency of 430 MHz was chosen, which falls within the common range for amateur radio (400-470 MHz), as confirmed by searches on 5-watt UHF radio frequency range. Transmitted Power: The radios transmit at 5 watts, which is 37 dBm (since 1 W = 30 dBm, and 5 W = 10 log10(5000) ≈ 37 dBm). Receiver Sensitivity: Typical receiver sensitivity for UHF radios is around -120 dBm for 12 dB SINAD, based on searches for UHF radio receiver sensitivity. This means the receiver can detect signals as weak as -120 dBm. Path Loss Calculation: The free-space path loss in dB is given by the formula: Path Loss (dB)=32.44+20log⁡10(d)+20log⁡10(f) where (d) is the distance in kilometers, and (f) is the frequency in MHz. For f=430 MHz, 20log⁡10(430)≈52.6772 dB. The total path loss is: 32.44+52.6772+20log⁡10(d)=85.1172+20log⁡10(d) For the signal to be detectable, the received power Pr=Pt−Path Loss≥−120 dBm. So: 37−(85.1172+20log⁡10(d))≥−120 Simplifying: 37−85.1172−20log⁡10(d)≥−120 −48.1172−20log⁡10(d)≥−120 −20log⁡10(d)≥−120+48.1172 −20log⁡10(d)≥−71.8828 Dividing by -20 (and reversing the inequality): log⁡10(d)≤3.59414 d≤103.59414≈3890.2 km Rounding to a reasonable figure, the communication distance is approximately 3900 km. This distance is theoretical and assumes no atmospheric losses beyond free-space path loss, which is reasonable given the problem’s conditions of “no trees or buildings or anything between them but air.” Real Earth Scenario: Impact of Curvature On a real earth, the communication distance is limited by the line of sight due to the earth’s curvature. The problem specifies no obstructions other than air, so we focus on the radio horizon. Height of Antennas: Each person is six feet tall, approximately 1.83 meters, which is 0.00183 km for consistency with the earth’s radius in kilometers. Earth’s Radius: The earth’s radius is approximately 6371 km. To account for atmospheric refraction, especially for UHF frequencies, the 4/3 earth radius model is used, making the effective radius r′=4/3×6371≈8494.67 km. Radio Horizon Calculation: The radio horizon distance for one person is given by: d=2×r′×h Substituting r′=8494.67 km and h=0.00183 km: 2×8494.67×0.00183≈31.048 d=31.048≈5.57 km For two people, the total line-of-sight distance is the sum of their individual horizons, assuming they are at the same elevation: dtotal=2×5.57≈11.14 km Geometric Horizon for Comparison: Without refraction, using the geometric horizon ( r=6371 km): d=2×6371×0.00183≈23.34426≈4.83 km dtotal=2×4.83≈9.66 km The 4/3 model extends the range, which is standard for VHF and UHF frequencies, as confirmed by radio horizon for UHF frequencies. Signal Strength Check: At 11.14 km, the path loss is calculated as: 32.44+20log⁡10(11.14)+20log⁡10(430) 20log⁡10(11.14)≈20×1.047≈20.94 , and 20log⁡10(430)≈52.6772 , so: Path Loss≈32.44+20.94+52.6772≈106.0572 dB Received power Pr=37−106.0572≈−69.0572 dBm , which is well above -120 dBm, so signal strength is not the limiting factor; the line of sight is. Given UHF frequencies’ line-of-sight nature, the communication distance is limited to approximately 11 km, aligning with the 4/3 earth radius model, which accounts for slight atmospheric refraction. Table: Summary of Calculations Scenario Frequency (MHz) Receiver Sensitivity (dBm) Limiting Factor Distance (km) Flat Earth 430 -120 Signal Strength ~3900 Real Earth 430 -120 Line of Sight (4/3) ~11 Additional Considerations Frequency Choice: The choice of 430 MHz is based on common UHF amateur radio frequencies, supported by 5-watt UHF radio details. Receiver Sensitivity: Confirmed through searches that -120 dBm is typical for UHF radios, ensuring the calculation’s validity UHF radio sensitivity. Curvature Impact: The significant drop from 3900 km to 11 km highlights how earth’s curvature restricts UHF radio range, which is surprising for laymen expecting longer ranges. This analysis ensures all details from the problem are addressed, providing a complete and self-contained response.

You bet.  
The current wording of 47 CFR 95.1761 does disallow gear usable in amateur radio service from being certified, so I agree it follows that 400-470 would be disqualified under the current state of affairs, though it appears the door is still open for the 450-490 or 450-512 radios to be dual certified (90/95E). Whether the manufacturers see it as worth spending the money on is the question, though based on what's available it seems like mostly not. 
I did a little digging in the prior version of the CFR (prior to the sections being shuffled in 2017 and GMRS was under 95a), and I'm not finding any similar wording disallowing overlapping between services.  Really the only thing I found regarding certification pointed to the OET page, and referenced a list of certified transmitters that doesn't seem to exist anymore.

I can see it now, it'd be the equivalent of the old "Are you gonna buy that magazine sir, or just stand here in the store and read it?"

Actually those are all just your feelings. The rules do not prohibit using GMRS to chat about weather or antennas or kids first report card, but if you’ve determined that you must have sole access to radio frequencies for the many emergencies that you purport to swoop in and handle you’ve made a terrible choice in GMRS. One would think that the first emergency might have taught you that. 

For the first situation it depends on the sensitivity of the receivers and the gain and pattern of the antennas, but with Yagi antennas you might easily get a couple hundred miles. 
With our earth’s curvature it’s down to about 15% farther away than the optical horizon.

Assuming unity antennas, 2 HTs at 5W, and a received signal of -110dbm, that appears to be free loss in the range of 455km (283 miles) theoretically. 
Counting curvature of the earth, and using simplified equations for RF line of site from the NOFIG manual, you are just shy of 7 miles, this ignores wattage as a factor.
 
This is all without any obstructions, like the middle of the desert. Outside factors really chop into those theoretical numbers.

Actually those are all just your feelings. The rules do not prohibit using GMRS to chat about weather or antennas or kids first report card, but if you’ve determined that you must have sole access to radio frequencies for the many emergencies that you purport to swoop in and handle you’ve made a terrible choice in GMRS. One would think that the first emergency might have taught you that. 

Actually those are all just your feelings. The rules do not prohibit using GMRS to chat about weather or antennas or kids first report card, but if you’ve determined that you must have sole access to radio frequencies for the many emergencies that you purport to swoop in and handle you’ve made a terrible choice in GMRS. One would think that the first emergency might have taught you that. 

I used to come here for information, now I come here for entertainment.

I used to feel that way but I gradually realized that it’s not up to me.  It is a hobby for many. Just like Citizen Band many people use GMRS as a way to chat with people who they might not know. 

Actually those are all just your feelings. The rules do not prohibit using GMRS to chat about weather or antennas or kids first report card, but if you’ve determined that you must have sole access to radio frequencies for the many emergencies that you purport to swoop in and handle you’ve made a terrible choice in GMRS. One would think that the first emergency might have taught you that. 

Actually those are all just your feelings. The rules do not prohibit using GMRS to chat about weather or antennas or kids first report card, but if you’ve determined that you must have sole access to radio frequencies for the many emergencies that you purport to swoop in and handle you’ve made a terrible choice in GMRS. One would think that the first emergency might have taught you that. 

In engineering we refer to Occam’s Razor. The simplest reason is usually right. I like the way you said it better. 

Why do so many people care how others use a radio. We can't really control what other people do, we can only control how we let their actions affect our mental well being.
 
Much like radio operators; some are hobbyists, others are tools.

So now you’re also an expert on propagation of UHF in Connecticut? What is your need to act like such a complete douche?

I used to feel that way but I gradually realized that it’s not up to me.  It is a hobby for many. Just like Citizen Band many people use GMRS as a way to chat with people who they might not know.