WRQI583

I have had the argument with a lot of Hams when it comes to cheap Chinese radios of all sorts (basically which is any radio that doesn't cost the price of a couple of human organs and that has a brand name "Ham radio" name) and they sit there quoting the FCC rules and all sorts of technical data that some college or expert collected on their transmissions and finally, funny enough, after I shut many of them down on their theories, the argument ends with, "Well, they transmit out of band". I own several radios that transmit out of band. The wonderful thing about them is that I have the ability to transmit and receive on anything I want. The other wonderful thing that each radio has is a transmit inhibit function. During programming I just check that box on whatever I am not allowed to talk on and my radio is legal only for my licenses but allows me to listen also. Out of the bands I operate on, I make sure to learn them before I use them and know their band edges. Ha ha I know I mention in other posts some Hams not liking new technology...... I guess I am guilty of that myself in a way...... I hate new technology that turns us lazy. Some is good, but not all of it is needed.

I dont get involved as far as clubs and what not. I used to when I first got into it all and it was fun back then. I have a lot of good memories, but like all good things, it comes to an end. Lol I wish it was a pun, and thanks for pointing that out, that gave me a good laugh. I would have to say Ham Radio is not what it used to be. In many areas it has gone down the tubes (literally, to HF) but from when I got into it I would have to say there is mostly contesting and much less experimenting and moving forward in the world of radio technology, and where it does move forward, it seems more like its moving forward begrudgingly. Some Hams are embracing it while many are sitting there complaining about the new technology ruining Ham Radio. At least from what I have experienced, its politically a divided community, hence, the reason for the first question you asked. Thankfully, if ever Hams decided to not be so divided over technologies and modes of operation and FCC rules and actually started using Ham Radio for what it is, there is a lot of awesome things you can do with it, and it all still sits there waiting to be used.

I know I know ha ha........ Personally, I dont care if the radio goes out of band, I just know there are many guys on these sites that if you say a Ham Radio will do CB and FRS, they instantly turn into the human version of a nuclear bomb and start quoting the FCC rules and telling people how radios that go out of band is the whole reason that Ham Radio is going down the tubes. That's one of the reasons I dont get involved with people in the radio community. There are so many of those type of people around, I dont know who to trust. I'm just trying to enjoy radio, that's all.

If it is bubble pack radios, you are hearing them on the output. There is unfortunately nothing you can do because the bubble pack radios use the same tones (PL and DCS) that GMRS users can use. What you are experiencing is what they call in Ham Radio, The Barn Door Effect. Hams get it on repeaters during times of tropospheric ducting where other distant stations, many times repeaters on the same frequency you are listening on but with a different tone will come into the radio. Because they are running a different tone, it takes the receive of either your radio or the repeater to open up and, like a barn door, allow all signals to come in regardless of their tone. I had a similar thing happen with a kid in my neighborhood that was using an FRS radio and he would come across the radio and interfere with my wife and I. I finally set a PL tone but the kid got the bright idea to play his musical keyboard over the radio. The tones he hit with many of the keys tricked the radio into thinking that the correct PL tones were being used and it would intermittently open our radios with this annoying tone and his voice singing. So, we switched to DCS tones and that helped, but when we got done talking, like a barn door, the receive opened back up and let him through. But at least we could set out radios down and not worry about his keyboard opening up our receive. But when it comes to your repeater, it isn't the repeater getting hammered, its your radio, and depending on what your terrain is like, they might be close to you, or possibly a good distance from you (up to 20 miles).

I am pretty sure if they did make a CB/GMRS radio, it would not cost over a thousand dollars. I am also pretty sure that some people got into GMRS because they want to sell organs just to afford a radio. I hate being "that guy" but going out of band with a Ham Radio is illegal.

I do that also. I think only one or two out of all the ones I've seen were not currently licensed. All the rest of them are up to date, but because Ham's in my area for some reason don't like to identify as a ham operator when it comes to their mobile vehicle, and that includes antennas sometimes, I don't see too many plates in my area. I think there's only four or five hams that actually have personalized plates. I always thought about getting it for my vehicle but I like to keep people wondering when they see my two little antennas.

The only reason I do this on Ham is because some Hams have their page done up really nice. When it comes to GMRS or Ham in general (seeing I use simplex mostly) I like to see what sort of range I have, so knowing their location (namely the town or area, not so much their physical address) it helps map out my range on radio. Where I live, it is hilly and mountainous and when it comes to VHF and UHF the terrain affects your signals in such a weird way, its worth mapping out. Studying the affects of RF on the terrain around me is something I have always loved to do. It is one of the reasons why I love the VHF and UHF bands so much. I totally understand where you are coming from though. I have had conversations with people on GMRS before and I may have known their name and location before I even talked to them but I never mention it over the air. I let them say what they want to say. The only way to keep your location out of the FCC database is to get a PO box unfortunately or put your work address on your license? (not sure if that is legal but I have known people who did).

On the rare occasion I turn the radio on, if I hear someone new (new Ham or new to the area) and if I am not busy with something else, I sometimes look callsigns up on QRZ only because some Hams have their page done up really nice with some nice pics or something.

Oh wow, I used to know a few people back when I first got my Ham license that would do that. I guess as long as they dont do it aggressively. I used to know a couple of guys who would straight up go mental over someone who was operating 5 watts instead of 2 watts. That, right there, is what gets people so scared of radio that they dont bother with it for fear of going to prison for 20 years and having a $10,000 fine hanging over their head. I am all for the people who turn in those who mess with essential services or military, but those who cry over a few watts or Hertz, and I have known a few, those people need to find another hobby.

I AM NOT CONDONING OPERATING ILLEGALLY!!! So for you "right arm of the FCC" guys, please keep your comments to yourself. With that said, if you were on low power operating DMR and you were operating 1 time slot, not double time slots, there is a chance they never even heard you. The only person who would have heard you was probably one of these "right arm of the FCC" guys with an SDR radio scanning the band looking to report someone to the FCC. I have tested DMR in that aspect and if the analog radio is receiving wideband, or even in some cases narrowband, and you come on with a DMR radio running 1 time slot, the radio running the full width doesn't even break squelch. I have done it with two portable radios side by side one on analog and the other on DMR with 1 time slot running.

What I have never understood is what the issue is with Hams not wanting to talk to people in their own backyard. I am not kidding when I tell you this, but I have heard hams at least in my own region make pretty rotten comments about having to deal with Hams local to them and talking to them on the air. For some reason, there is this insatiable need to talk around the world and that is the only thing that gets people going. I mean good for them, but that is not me. Never has been. I have heard this from a lot of Hams. Where I live VHF and UHF are not a big thing. I even heard one time a Ham telling someone new that no one talks on repeaters, and that was just a couple of years ago. I mainly use simplex when I talk. Even that isn't all that active anymore and 2 meters has become pretty cruddy with its interference so I have been sitting on 440 but that band is pretty close to entirely dead in my area with only a couple of people on it here and there. I know in many other areas these bands are alive.

I am sure there are others. I would imagine they are doing the same as me. Staying off of Ham Radio. It is hard to find them though, because just like me, they probably dont even want to get on the conversation of radio for fear that it is just going to turn into the same old "you should jump on HF and make contacts" conversation. I've spent the last 20+ years listening to it. I am glad the FCC has GMRS for people like me, ha ha.

Instead of it being a hobby of experimenting and being the leader in radio communication, it has turned into a regressing place of competition on the HF bands. It does have the capability to be more than just competition. The vhf/uhf bands have been abandoned because allegedly you can't do anything with them and no one is on them. It's also turned really divisive in some areas, in addition to Hams having strong political opinions, something i refuse to get involved in. Instead of getting wrapped up in that, something I've done before, I switched to focusing on gmrs. If one day Ham radio changes, I'll become more active. Until then, Hams make it what it is.

Ham doesn't get used for off grid or local communications because everyone is down on HF contesting. I gave up on Ham. While I do find a handful of Hams in my area that do utilize the VHF/UHF bands, no one really does much with it outside of quick chats here and there and a few nets. I keep the license just in case the HF bands get destroyed by other forces and everyone decides to come back to VHF and UHF, or in case I run across someone who actually wants to use it (all wishful thinking). I really try to do my best to not think about it, but it makes me sick to my stomach to see how much technology is available to Hams and all of the millions of possibilities there are to communicate using VHF and UHF and Hams would rather activate parks on HF, leaving GMRS with only 8 repeater pairs to play with that can fill up quickly and are not allowed to be radio linked. GMRS is more likely to be used by all people in an emergency situation or off grid purposes compared to Ham Radio that will only be used by a select few Hams in a select few situations. So, my focus stays on GMRS because my wife and I can use it without her having to study up on a bunch of stuff you do not need in order to just pick up a microphone and communicate. It also allows the rest of my household to use it. Personally, I would love to see the FCC allow the MURS band to be used with higher power (50 watts), give GMRS users 462-462.725/467-467.725 so we have more space for repeaters, simplex, and linking. Take those who lost their place in the 462-462.55/467-467.55 and put them in the 440 Ham band that doesn't get used in a large majority of places in the United States. Then, allow crossbanding or linking between the VHF and UHF and just label the whole thing GMRS. This stuff can be done with plug and play equipment. It would make more sense than allowing large amounts of frequency spectrum to go to waste. And, if you got those ones out there who prefer to use digital, the FCC could make allowance for that also. That way, in the end, more bandwidth would be getting used and the FCC would be making money on spectrum that is not getting a whole lot of use as it sits. Seems to me to be a win win all the way around.

People come to GMRS as a substitute because CB is too cluttered with DX and no locals and local bands on Ham are so dead. Both services are not what they used to be. I think I have been guilty of it myself. It is good for comms between friends and family. It has come in handy a few times when it comes to repeaters, and I even use it at least in the way of simplex between my wife and I because I live and shop where there are no repeaters or any that work reliably, but it does the job. I am thinking that either it is summer and everyone is so busy or everyone got licensed, jumped on, found it was dead, and did what they do with other bands, shut the radios off, tossed them in the closet and called it good.

It could be your radio or location. For your location, I believe you have two options for repeaters, Camden or Frankfort. I would have to say that Frankfort would probably be a closer option. Overall, it is pretty quiet. I used to monitor all 8 channels from my location, even put my call out on 462.55 in simplex mode, no tone, and never heard anything. From my location, Woodstock is the only repeater that I can hit that comes in consistent and clear. Frankfort works but it depends on which way the wind is blowing whether I am able to get into it. Woodstock used to have quite a bit of activity on it but lately it hasn't. Frankfort for the most part is very quiet. I've only ever heard 2 other people on it and one them was trying to run some sort of net from what I could hear through the static. Overall, it is quiet. I thought it would be much busier seeing as how many people have gotten licenses in the past year or so.

If the digital was kept to those channels, then yes, that would be the least impact, provided you don't sit in a busy area where every business and school is using all the channels. I'm not sure how other areas are. Some places are more busy with the bubble pack radios than others. NXDN looks like it would be a likely candidate with the low bandwidth. I just hate to see anyone get negatively impacted, that's all. I happen to live in an area where they add one repeater after another, and no matter how many repeaters they add, none of them work for me when it comes to base/mobile comms. Either the base can hit the repeater and the mobile cant, or the mobile can hit the repeater and the base cant, or neither of them can, so I am limited to using simplex on one of the 8 channels, but I have to pick one that will have the least impact on all of the other GMRS users who are lucky enough to be able to float all over the state and have their base and mobile both be able to get into most or at least some of the repeaters. I just happen to be that guy who only has analog equipment and has to use simplex and that is how I invested because GMRS is analog. But that PDF is very informative. Thanks for posting that.

The point is that it will happen. My question is why Ham operators and others who want Ham radio without taking a test cant just stay on their own bands and stop trying to turn GMRS into another Ham band that they can destroy. From my experience, DMR is not a digital voice mode that will cause an influx of users. You should hear the Hams who have a nuclear meltdown because they cant write a code plug. How many of them have floated off to Yaesu Fusion because its as simple as hitting a button and talking digital? DMR came easy to me. First time ever, I wrote a code plug like it was nothing. Not everyone is like that. Most people get confused when it comes to DMR. The point is, GMRS is just fine the way it is. Either GMRS would need to be all digital or all analog, not a mix. If mixing digital and analog worked, I would have many more repeaters programmed in my radio, but it doesn't.

Well for those of us that have limited money, limited room for more radios and definitely antennas, that will exclude us. Feels like ham radio all over again.

And that is the problem. You're going to have a bunch of guys with digital radios who are going to get on there and chat up a storm and I will tell you that it is horribly annoying to listen to digital coming over your radio. We have this problem with yaesu fusion where I live. They need to keep the digital out of gmrs. If you want digital go to ham radio, there's a huge world of it to play with. Ham radio has already been destroyed by the digital voice modes because there's so many different forms and repeaters and not everybody can afford the equipment. And then how many forms of digital are we going to introduce into gmrs? Is it going to be like ham radio where I'm going to have to have a p25 radio and a nxdn radio and a DMR radio and a fusion radio? and the list goes on. That's a ham radio thing and it needs to be left where it is. If gmrs-ham operators want digital then they need to stay on ham or create their own gmrs band with digital only. Having digital and analog segregates the population of people who are on the radio. I see it already in ham radio. You have us DMR operators and then you have the fusion operators and I can't talk to one unless I have what they have and they can't talk to me unless they have what I have and neither of us will budge and get the other radio. The radio is not what's the blame, it's the radio operators and unfortunately none of them will change. I know from experience living right near very good wide coverage repeaters that are digital that I can't afford the equipment for and it limits me. If things went digital that means I have to buy two brand new radios, possibly 4, just to use whatever form of digital it runs on. It brings up a good question, when is this all going to stop? When are people just going to get on the radio and use it and stop trying to have the latest and the greatest? I thought that was ham radio? I thought that wasn't going to filter into gmrs.

I meant that for the OP not you. They were overthinking using codes and what is not permitted or permitted. I don't know who people are more scared of, the IRS auditing them or the FCC throwing someone in federal prison for 100 years for saying "I am going to echo delta 10-420 this zulu foxtrot and then covert charlie the man". I see so many posts on many of these sites where people overthink stuff.

The digital would interfere with the analog. It wouldn't cause more interference, just interference to those still running analog. We aren't talking about Ham radio or a specific licensed frequency assigned to only you. We are talking about 1/8 repeater pairs, of which can be use in simplex mode by licensed and unlicensed people. Now if everyone caught on and started making their repeaters digital, GMRS would be unusable in analog mode in many places.

I am not familiar with DMR and analog used on the same repeater. I know Yaesu Fusion has that capability and it is a nightmare. I have a bunch of Yaesu Fusion repeaters in my state, quite a few within range of me where they work better than some analog. I will not even program them in any radio because analog never gets used on them. They also happen to be linked together digitally, so when someone on another repeater wants to run digital decides to jump on and start talking to someone, they will walk right over me. I could just upgrade but I barely use the radio as it is, so a $400-$500 price tag for something I barely use is a bit much to choke on. I would hope a DMR/analog repeater doesn't behave the same way? When it comes to the bubble pack radios, digital would impact them. Tone squelching them wouldn't matter. If a digital signal comes across, it is still occupying that frequency causing the signals between the bubble pack radios to be diminished to the point where they wont be able to use them, just like I could take an analog radio and jam a digital signal if I am closer to their radio than the transmitting station. I am not saying this would happen all over the place, but with no coordination or the lack of studying who would get negatively impacted, someone out there would be out on their communications. The other thing with digital is that it doesn't work as well as analog. I have been in so many situations where my signal either didn't get through, or it was so garbled no one could understand me. On analog, the other person could have at least heard me through the static. With digital, either you are there or you are not, there is no middle ground. Digital should be left to Ham radio, OR petition the FCC to create another GMRS like band. There are a lot of abandoned frequencies over the country ever since they rebanded things and many public safety agencies went up into the 700/800 MHz band. Personally, I would love the FCC to make those left behind frequencies available to those who want to play with them.

That means it would take coordination, something that doesn't currently exist on GMRS. It is hard enough to coordinate Ham radio let alone something that may become licenseless in another 20 years. Personally I don't want to see the mess that has been created on Ham Radio when it comes to digital, Yaesu Fusion being one of those messes. Sure, you can use analog and digital on the same repeater, as long as someone with digital doesn't come along and walk right over you. How about those who can barely afford analog radios? Now the much more expensive digital comes into play and those with analog either spend the money and upgrade or get bumped out. I can say from experience, no one, unless they are rich and have money to blow on radios for fun is going to want to spend money on digital radios. I can buy a Yaesu VHF analog radio for about $175. If I just wanted to upgrade to digital (Yaesu Fusion), that price tag now goes up to close to $400 or more. Simply put, there are only 8 repeater pairs. If people want to operate digital, join Ham Radio. Ham Radio has tons of digital repeaters that don't get used and there is so much space on the VHF/UHF bands that no one uses. All it takes is memorizing the answers to a bunch of questions and passing a test and people can play digital all they want as long as they don't get sucked down the HF rabbit hole.

Ha ha I think you are overthinking it. Just use the common 10 codes and you will be fine. No one is going to throw you in jail for using 10 codes. GMRS is very laid back. We aren't police officers acting official when on the radio. Whenever I am listening to GMRS repeaters or happen to use one with my wife, it sounds no different than a couple Hams having a conversation on a repeater. You seriously cannot tell the difference aside from a 10 code being thrown out here or there. I know at least in my area, the most I will hear is 10-4. The point that you run into an issue is when you sound like you are running covert military op's and you sound like you are up to no good and maybe possibly, something really bad happens in the area where you happen to be and someone ties your communications together with an incident, then you will have an issue. If you use the common 10 codes, you will be perfectly fine.