WRQI583

Linking even by internet is illegal. There is a YouTube video where FCC officials were present and part of the meeting and the question of linking over the internet on GMRS came up and the gentleman who asked actually stated that he linked a couple of his repeaters together by internet and was wondering if that was legal or not. Simple answer from the FCC official? NO! I hope this post reaches the ears of GMRS users across the country, because these are my thoughts on it - I don't think linking is a bad thing if done properly and in moderation (not linking every repeater in the USA together). If the linking is kept between repeaters and NOT on the internet. This can be done very easily on microwave frequencies with equipment that is easily obtainable. If you all want linking and think there is nothing wrong with it, how about you take the energy you have here, grasping at straws and debating and speculating, and band together and petition the FCC to allow linking (within reason) on GMRS. State situations where it would be beneficial such as in many of your more rural areas where you could have a repeater out in the middle of nowhere but it doesn't reach into civilization where someone at home could render help over the airwaves by making proper phone calls etc. I am sure that if you showed how it can be done WIRELESSLY (not internet) without causing issues and you showed how it would not get out of control (such as linking over the internet), there is a chance the FCC may allow it to happen and GMRS repeater owners would not have to resort to the internet. Quite honestly, in my opinion, internet linking is garbage because it lags and doesn't always pass the message through. I have listened to a linked over the internet GMRS system and I would hear what sounded like a one way conversation because the connection to the internet at one of the sites was not allowing the audio to go through, but then all of a sudden it all started working. There were times where one link would not allow any audio to go through for 5-10 minutes straight and then all of a sudden it started working but as quickly as it started working, it went back down again. I am not saying this is the case all of the time, but internet in my experience does not work as well as many people say it does. It's cool to watch your webpage take 20-30 seconds to load, but that doesn't fly in the case of real time voice.

Very true, but the policing I see going on in Ham is equivalent to self policing a town. Instead of self policing the areas where drugs and other crime are, they police the nice end of town and ticket people for crossing the street too slowly. Ham Radio is just like that. They will jump all over someone operating a Baofeng correctly, but wont get the guy who records conversations going on and then maliciously playing them back at the guys he just recorded while they are attempting to have a conversation, or how about the guys who swear up a storm right over the air. I understand the need for self policing, but it needs to be done correctly.

Something came to mind when it comes to a lot of people who get into radio. Their view of it and what purpose they have for it and why you find so many playing radio cop when it comes to subjects like this, "Type accepted radios". You find it in GMRS but especially in Ham. These people who get their license and think they are now part of some elite group akin to a special branch of law enforcement. They think that now, because they hold a radio license, they have power and have this need to be overly super strict about what radio they operate, how they operate it, etc. They then act super official and try to police others. I even dealt with it on CB radio many years ago. Many CB operators thought they knew the rules when it came to radio and how if someone threatened them on CB, that person could be charged with a federal crime because it happened on a radio that is governed by the FCC. What was hilarious is when I came along and they found out I had a Ham license. They thought I had a back door I could go through to contact the FCC on their behalf. I was Radio Superman because I held an FCC license. I hate to say it. Radio isn't anything special. Ham Radio, GMRS, it doesn't matter. It is just a radio license. It doesn't make you special. You are not a radio agent. You dont have special favors that you can do for people because you hold a federal license. You don't have the right to run around and police people. You can educate someone nicely, but not police. Ham Radio is a hobby. GMRS is a service that allows you to communicate with higher power and with repeaters, but is meant for the average person. At the end of the day, both are probably the lowest on the totem pole of licenses. If anything, it is a "You know better than to do that" license. If you get caught operating illegally, the FCC is going to slam the book at you harder because you are more familiar with the rules than the average person.

All of my antennas except my HF and 2 meter antennas use "N" connectors at the antenna. The side that plugs into the radio is a PL 259 that I picked up on Ebay because that is what sits on the back of the radio. I have heard that at VHF and UHF frequencies you will lose half of your signal using PL 259 connectors. Well, if that is the case, why do they put an SO-239 on the back of the radio for the PL 259 to plug into? In my experience, if you have good coax and a good properly tuned antenna, you will do fine. You are running under 50 watts or less on GMRS, so the loss is minimal. I had a 45 watt radio with the SO-239 on the back of it in the house at one point on LMR 400 coax running about 60 feet to a element Yagi with an "N" connector mounted about 32 feet up above the ground. I live in a hole compared to the terrain around me at around 310 feet above sea level. I was able to get into the Mt. Washington (NH) UHF repeater on Ham from my place around 102 miles away in Central Maine with a decently strong signal. With that type of setup, the only thing that stops my signals are hills, and even then, I have used hills to bounce or bend my signals in different directions.

HF radio is dead, VHF/UHF, depending on where you are can be dead also but not affected by CME's. Good time to go out and watch the northern lights. I just recently broke down and got into HF. HF is DEAD like the city streets during the height of COVID. Even AM broadcast is dead unless you are close enough to the transmit site. I dont remember it being bad but then again, I was never into anything HF, and since nothing else got affected like they claim all the time, I never noticed. Allegedly my internet is supposed to be down due to this weather. Mine is running strong.

Oh, when it comes to DMR, I WISH all radio operators would whisper. When it comes to analog, unless you have a radio like mine that is hot on the audio, There is no need to whisper. On the same note, you dont need to jam the mic down your throat and scream like you are on CB radio.

Haha, funny you mention the online SDR's. There have been some times when I have checked into a net in the morning and I have to run out of the room and just flip the net on on my phone until I can get back in the room... SHhh.... dont say nothing ha ha. The software and the computer do have make a difference. I tried using SDR++ on my windows laptop with the SDR and the frequency was off and it was receiving all whacked out. When I built the SDR project box that used a Raspberry Pi, SDR++ actually worked very well with no issues. There is a lot of different software and most all of it is free and sometimes has more features built into it than a radio. It is something I would have loved to have had as a kid. Back when I was a kid, direct entry SW radios were the thing and many tube style ones were still many peoples hands. I owned a few tube style SW radios myself.

There is also the option of a Software Defined Radio dongle. Personally, I did go all out and spend close to $500 building a whole box with several SDR's (to monitor everything from 100KHz-6GHz), outlets, and a Raspberry Pi to run it on, but you can just buy the dongle and a converter to drop the SDR Dongle down into the SW bands. The Software Defined Radio world is pretty big when it comes to the different dongles you can buy. The software to run it on is free online and they have quite a few programs out there that will monitor, decode, etc. This is another route you could go. The drawback to it is that, it requires you have a computer with the dongle whereas the radio could be much smaller and portable if that matters to you. For me, I dont do anything HF outside of the house aside from CB in my vehicle so all of my operating HF/SW listening it done at home, so the SDR was a good choice for me. That's not saying that you can take an SDR portable and they do sell actual SDR radios. I figured I add my two cents on this option if it is something that might work for you. The dongles, last I checked, are around $35 or so and the converter is around $70. The prices vary depending on what you want. And to the guy who said to buy a Ham Radio to listen to SW, there is a cheaper option if someone wanted to buy a Ham Radio to listen to SW. I own the Yaesu ft 891 which I got from HRO for $675. While buying a Ham Radio to listen to SW is pretty dumb, there is the chance that you may want to talk on it, especially if you are listening to Ham frequencies. Some people do. But if you are just strictly an SW Listener, take the cheaper route and just purchase a SW radio, or SDR. I of all people realize that radio is a HUGE world and what you like and get into is many times going to be the total opposite of what most others get into. Just because you like SWL doesn't mean you love HF Ham Radio. My first love in radio was AM broadcast at age 10. That led to SWL and then CB Radio. That was over 30 years ago and up until now, I have never had an interest in operating HF. I've actually hated it. However, now I actually enjoy operating HF. But that is how different some people can be when it comes to radio. So, take in all the information on here and do what works for you and enjoy. It's a big world out there. 73 N1YFA Hamilton

I keep 2m/70cm, CB, MURS, and GMRS in my vehicle. I have it mainly to have the ability to communicate with almost anyone, but in the case of emergency, I am pretty well covered.

Oh, thats easy. Round table. You create an order and one person passes it to the next person. I used to participate in that many years ago back when Ham was more active and we could have up to 8 or 9 people all talking on the repeater late into the night. Good times.

Height is might. The higher up you go, the farther you will get out. What you are looking to do is a stretch. If you have a repeater that the both of you can get into it can be done but it will be limited to base to repeater to base. You wont be able to do mobile. Where I live, I can hit the Mt Washington 440 Ham repeater from my house. The distance is around 102 miles away from my place to the tower. The distance you get out of a repeater is going to depend on height of the tower where the repeater is and the terrain around it. Usually 30-50 miles is typical but sometimes much less. If you have more than one repeater and the two are linked, then you can get more distance.

Ha Ha sounds like the way some Ham repeaters can get, although much less child-like. GMRS is a means of communications for people who just need to talk without studying for a test and learning all about the electronics of radio. Its not that serious. 10 codes are permitted on GMRS and as long as you are not swearing, you are not going against the rules. Some people take it overboard on rules and what they think are the rules. Not every area is like what you mentioned here. Where I live, there is a large group of people (probably 99% of the state) who all get along with each other and are professional and helpful. Unfortunately, with radio, you will almost always find at least a few clowns in the bunch.

I will never understand why there are so many forums where the number one thing above all things talked about when it comes to operating a radio is type accepted radios. It isn't using a radio without a license, or talking on or jamming public safety frequencies, or swearing over the radio, it is operating a type accepted radio. This is the least of your issues. If you took type accepted radios and lined them up next to non type accepted radios and talked over them, you would never know the difference. It just seems funny how some people will even go to the length of never getting licensed and never touching a radio because they are that scared of possibly using a radio that is not type accepted and getting caught by the FCC and thrown in jail for 20 years and then getting out and having to pay a $10,000 fine. Many Hams and GMRS radio operators all use NON type accepted radios, either because they modified the radio themselves or they purchased the radio from the manufacturer NON type accepted. How many cases are being brought into court over non type accepted radios just because the FCC happened to be strolling past someone's house and caught them in the act of operating a non type accepted radio? You have Hams that swear right over Ham radio frequencies on multiple different bands and NEVER get in trouble. I have heard conversations come over GMRS that was so offensive I wouldn't let a child listen to it even after they just got done with a day of school full of kids swearing at each other, and I can assure you that no one got in trouble. Bad language over the radio will get you in trouble with the FCC much quicker than a non type accepted radio. I am by no means encouraging breaking the rules at all, however, to focus on non type accepted radios while others are clearly violating the rules in much worse ways is futile. Like it has been said in here already, it is an add on charge and the chance of getting caught is slim to none. You literally have to be maliciously interfering with other agencies to get caught and even then, it takes a long time if at all for the FCC to respond. So when it comes to a radio going from type accepted to non type accepted, the FCC would never come after anyone. Think about Baofeng. None of those radios are type accepted and you have everyone from children to security agencies operating them radios. The United States is probably flooded with more Baofeng radios than plastic shopping bags. Think about how many people would end up in prison for 20 years and have to pay a $10,000 fine. It just doesn't make sense to go after non-type accepted radios.

Although it does happen where random people chat with each other such as on CB radio or Ham Radio, GMRS generally doesn't have that type of thing. I am not saying it cant. I mean, what is wrong with a community keeping in touch with each other on a regular basis? or what is wrong with a neighborhood watch group or emergency comm group keeping in regular contact? I think GMRS should incorporate more of this seeing as how in many areas it no longer is found on Ham Radio. In general, most people keep in contact over Facebook groups and texting on their cell phones unfortunately. That activity you are looking for is mainly on Ham Radio and even then, like I said, in many places that local radio chatter is almost totally dead. I would still monitor though. I have two local GMRS repeaters near me and they are completely dead. Since they have been put up, I have heard several conversations in the beginning as they were testing it and then on the other repeater a couple of conversations including the few times my wife and I have used it and other than that, both repeaters are so dead you probably wouldn't notice if they went off the air. I still keep both in scan on my radio 24/7

I just use the fire dispatch way of doing it. They put out the call saying their name and the name of the entity they are dispatching and then put out the details of the call and then end with their callsign (in most cases). My wife and I use numbers and call each other ("113 to 696. WRQI583") and then she comes back and answers ("696, go ahead 113. WRQI583"). Then its every 15 minutes or when we end our last transmission. Generally you wont be using it for more than 15 minutes at a time so you probably will use your callsign once in the beginning and once in the end. The only time I have had to keep re-identifying is when I was doing range testing with my wife after I got my base set up because I was driving all over the place for a long time. It's really nothing too stressing to worry about. I have heard names used, unit numbers, and some other whacky names. As long as callsigns are used and things are kept civil. It always helps immensely to listen to people talk on GMRS first so you get a feel for how things go. I did the same before I got on Ham Radio. Then when you get on, you can fall right into the groove with everyone else. GMRS is a lot more laid back than Ham.

There are areas where VHF and UHF are very active but it's in pockets. From what I gather, it seems as though the areas where it is pretty dead are larger than the areas where it is active. 2 meters is pretty much the more active band no matter where you go, however, the rest of it is usually pretty dead. Where I live, we have a statewide DMR system and I hardly see any activity on it. I know of another state where they have a statewide DMR system and Hams actually frown upon others using it unless it is for emergencies. My issue with Ham is that I dont do HF. For the bands that I do like to run, there just isn't enough activity. Ham Radio isn't what it used to be. So, I ended up going with GMRS but decided to keep Ham running also until it just got plain old stupid. One repeater had some redneck flying off the handle swearing up a storm talking like some drunk guy on CB and then came the bad attitudes from Hams who think having a GMRS and Ham license is not being loyal to Ham. They cant understand why you would bother with GMRS because it doesn't travel far and no one is on it. In the middle of all of this I needed more antennas for my SDR project and police scanner. Sadly, I dont have room for anymore antennas. So, I disconnected my Ham Radios and packed them away and plugged my SDR's and new digital scanner into the existing antennas and things have been good ever since. I have GMRS if I need to communicate with Hams and also family and friends, and I get to monitor what I want making better use of my electricity and space.

You are very correct aside from Trunked radio and FHHS. It isn't so much what you cannot do in Ham Radio, it is a lot more finding others to do it with you. I have always felt this way, and I always will - Ham Radio has a lot to offer. It is a huge world. It is what I loved about the hobby from the start. However, it takes two to communicate and therefore it is pretty difficult if you dont find the people out there that are into what you are into, especially people who live close to you. Everyone knows, although Ham Radio has a many different aspects to it when it comes to all the different sorts of modes and frequencies that you can operate, Ham Radio started off with certain frequencies and certain modes and a certain way of operating and it will always be that (at least until the "old guard" dies off). Even though more frequencies and modes come along, they will never be viewed as "true Ham Radio" and therefore will never be fully accepted by the majority. Because of this, many modes of operation and frequencies dont get used the way they could or should and in some cases, when people try to make full use of them, they are met with opposition or just "that look" that screams, "You are not a true Ham". I've gotten it and many others have including those who dont even have a license yet, and it's what drives people away. No one wants to get into something if they are going to meet opposition doing it. I understand Ham Radio started off with wires and tubes transmitting on a crackly signal in the HF bands, but radio has come a long way since then and if people dont just get with the times, what they have is going to dry up and die with them.

The current radios would get interfered with by the other radios. We are talking about adjusting all the bandwidths of the radios. No one is realizing that. Even some of the GMRS radios currently in use will interfere with digital. RF is RF no matter what you run. If you guys all want to experiment with encryption and all this other fancy means of transmitting, please, petition the FCC to use the VHF and UHF bands on Ham Radio to do this. There are areas where these bands dont get used. I have encountered so many Hams that have nothing good to say about these bands. I can find hundreds of Hams that refuse to use them. They sit here with DMR hotspots, APRS and repeaters doing nothing useful. I say, revamp the Ham bands from 50MHz on up and make it worth something to even people like you who are interested in this sort of thing. Even I would get back into Ham Radio if that was the case. I got out of it because I am tired of getting talked down to for liking these bands and then getting my GMRS license and the fact that Ham Radio is stagnant on these bands. I would sign my name to a petition if someone wanted to incorporate this stuff into the Hams Bands. Ham Radio should be the service that is forward thinking, instead it Leave GMRS simple for those who cant tell the difference between simplex and a repeater because they just simply want to use a radio to communicate without all the strings attached.

yep, good point from the both of you, I didn't think about that.

I have heard people mix this one up.............. Only repeaters are allowed 50 watt max. The way the rules read from what I found is the following: Mobile - 50 watt max Repeater - 50 watt max Base to Mobile - 50 watt max Base to Base (fixed station) - 15 watt max And as for portables, I dont know too many that actually exceed 5 watts on UHF, even if they claim they do. My Ailunce radios claim 8 watts on high on UHF and they actually only do 4 watts. Besides, no matter what portable you are using, unless you are a Ham operator doing OTA activations, do you really want more than 5 watts blowing off in your face through a rubber duck antenna that is almost never tuned correctly? I have seen some of these cheap FRS walkie talkies get some really good distance just on their small amount of power they run. I dont understand why you cant use an amplifier? As long as it does not exceed the above power limits. Am I correct? If I ran a 5 watt radio and wanted to get another 20-40 watts out, there shouldnt be an issue. Take into account the loss in the coax , loss in your connectors, and your antenna gain maybe not being what it says, you probably might not be emitting more than 40 watts if you started out with 45 or 50. At the end of the day, if you think blowing out more than 50 watts is going to help you, you might just be a CB'er or a Ham Operator who lives in HF. Once you hit the UHF bands, it is not about power output anymore but all about your coax, antenna, and height of your antenna. 5 watts at the right height with the right antenna can go a long way. Ask anyone who runs a repeater on less than 10 watts that has a 50 mile coverage.

With Ham Radio, I think it is more that someone creates a digital mode and then someone else comes along and says, "I want my own digital mode" and then runs off and creates one and doesn't make sure it is compatible. For how technologically savy Hams are with radio, they sure do not do a very good job when it comes to linking things. When it comes to Dstar into DMR ...............If you want to smoke the speaker up on your radio, try crossing those two together on a hotspot. I tried it one time and the speaker on my radio hasn't been the same. The worse part is that the guys on Dstar had audio so hot that even turning my radio down to where I could barely hear them did no good. It still sounded like they were screaming.

Hams are a great asset to GMRS/FRS just as long as they and the GMRS/FRS are kept in their respective places. When a Ham is on GMRS, they are now a GMRS operator. Its similar to a NASCAR driver also having a job driving taxi. When in the taxi, they are only a taxi driver transporting people, not a NASCAR driver racing a car around the track. Currently, many Hams in my area who got their GMRS license are more than wonderful to those who need help getting on the air whether or not its over the air or on the Facebook page. We currently have a large linked system on analog and aside from a little VOX issue with someone's radio, it works wonderful and everyone is more than happy with what they have.

It is simply because GMRS is a simple radio service for people who just need a simple means of communication. It is geared towards business, family, friends, where getting a business radio license is either not worth it or impossible to get. From observing people either online or locally getting into GMRS, many are not radio smart. They are utterly confused the second you say "repeater". Could you imagine if you added DMR or some other sort of whacky form of communicating? I know Extra class Hams who's brains explode if you even plant a DMR radio in their hands, never mind trying to get them to upload an already programmed codeplug. Adding other modes into GMRS would only confuse and degrade the service. GMRS is meant to be simple for simple radio communications. Analog with simplex and repeater capability is more than enough. I suggest if Hams want to experiment with frequency hopping, encryption and who knows what new secret service mode of communicating is out there, how about petitioning the FCC to take the Ham bands from 6 meters on up and either allow experimentation of any sort of mode of operation or petition the FCC to take the bands from 6 meters on up and split them off from Ham Radio and make a new service similar to Ham radio but that allows the commercial world to enter in with its radio technology therefore allowing more experimentation of radio and making it more friendly towards those like myself who's interests border more on the commercial end of radio rather than the traditional Ham contesting end of radio? I guarantee you, you would attract a lot more people to the group of radio operators. This way, people could leave GMRS alone and stop trying to turn it into something it is not meant to be. Ham Radio on the bands from 6 meters and above are actually very restrictive when it comes to what you can experiment with and what modes you can use. In general, either the rules restrict you from experimenting or the Ham community themselves restrict you (depending on your location). If you want to experiment - use Ham Radio If you want secure communications - use a cell phone.

I totally agree. It is one of the reasons I invest in GMRS instead of Ham. My issue is Hams coming down onto GMRS to change it into Ham Radio. GMRS is analog with a certain bandwidth. If Hams dont like that, then they can go back to Ham Radio. GMRS needs to remain simple due to the fact that it is meant for people who are not radio geeks and who just need a simple means of communications, not a Ham Radio atmosphere. Many of the people I have met on GMRS and even FRS get utterly confused when you say repeater. Given that fact, they dont need anything more complicated. Just keep it simple. Overall, it is a very good tool to be used for non-hams and Hams to communicate.