Hans
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Posts posted by Hans
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4 hours ago, Lscott said:
Things on 11m started really going to crap when the FCC dropped the license requirements and effectively quit policing the band.
Things certainly got worse but it was pretty wild when we had a license. Then again, I am no fan of Uncle Charlie. Funding and influence always corrupt regulatory agencies. It's unavoidable.
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1 hour ago, SUPERG900 said:
"In the old days, we used to..." <insert your cb revenge story here>.
If I took that path in the city, I would spend all of my waking hours rampaging. The inner city is very annoying. Fortunately, I am easier going with age.
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A few years ago, I moved to the inner city of my hometown after many years of farm life in the country. I saw these gigantic antennae with spiral bases on these cars and vans around the hood. Naive me got excited and asked if they were amateur operators, innocently hoping to strike up a conversation about their rigs. They got downright mean, vulgar, and in some cases threatening for simply asking that one question. After a while, I realized these were chowder-heads running high wattage on CB. Mornings and sometimes in the evenings, their ear raping interference comes through my computer speakers and my headset when playing video games. It is super annoying.
ETA: These guys know they are causing massive interference. They simply don't care for anyone but themselves. -
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37 minutes ago, Lscott said:
There are already illegal cross band repeaters operating between MURS and GMRS for exactly the reason above.
I think it would be a better bet going digital, DMR. There are SFR, single frequency repeaters that take advantage of the dual time slot nature of DMR. The repeaters don’t need expensive tuned cavity filters. No new frequencies are necessary either.
Being narrow band, 12.5KHz wide channels, it might be possible to spilt one or two of the existing wide band repeater frequency pairs into two channels. One or two SFR’s could operate on one of the existing analog input frequencies and the same with the output frequencies. Thus one old analog repeater frequency pairs could accommodate up to four digital SFR systems.
One could “sell” this to the FCC as making better use of the current spectrum while simplifying the the system hardware making it more accessible to the general public.
At one time, I was against DMR on GMRS. I have since changed my stance.
Your ideas are good and valid but ignore the situations where one band is going to propagate better than the other. I ran into that surprisingly more often than I expected over the years. Additionally, there are situations where cross band is cheap and easy (ex. handheld <-> mobile <-> handheld). Instead of VHF or DMR, why not both? (Insert WhyNotBoth.jpg meme here.) -
30 minutes ago, Wrjy836 said:
Someone asked what the benefit would be. It would be nice to be able to set up a repeater without having to buy expensive bandpass/notch filters. A one-way crossband repeater using VHF as the input is a lot easier to successfully set up.
Exactly. Even just basic cross-banding through a vehicle's mobile would be a plus. Also, there have been situations where VHF would propagate better than UHF. 2M was propagating much better for me but not everyone had an amateur license. We used MURS but the radios were not part certified for it. I doubt the FCC will ever include VHF in GMRS but hope springs eternal.
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47 minutes ago, SUPERG900 said:
"Officer, arrest that man for reckless redneckitude!"
If reckless redneckitude was a primary offense, I would be doing life by now.
- wayoverthere, DeoVindice, mbrun and 1 other
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Thanks for the update.
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Ok, let's try to keep this in scale. If one were to renew for $70 the day before the new price went into effect. The total extent of the "damage" would be $3.50 per year over the 10 year life of the license. That is $ 0.0095 per day, $0.067 per week, or a whopping $0.29 a month.
You seriously underestimate just how cheap I am, friend.
- Mikeam, mainehazmt and berkinet
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Hans and mainehazmt, wait for the last minute or next to last day and see if it will be reduced before Feb 2021. I'm a member of the "I paid $70 Club" and for $7.00 a year it ok... Well work taking your call sign if you like it..
Jack
IIRC, as a federal regulatory agency, it will be 30 days after they officially announce the change that it will go into effect. They said that in their response as well. Unless I missed it, I don't believe they have officially announced the change yet so my renewal would pass by and I have too much set up with our call sign to let that happen.
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I’m due to renew guy feb 22 2021. The way Gov works I again will get screwed. Happened at the 5 yr vs 10 year change and now this. Plus I had planned on upgrading to AE on the ham side...
I'm right there with you. I missed the 10 year rule change and it looks like I will miss the fee reduction because mine expires in February 2021.
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Are the Part 90 radios TRULY legal to use under Part 95, not being certified FOR Part 95, but being programmed to Part 95 specifications? Seems everyone finds THAT acceptable to all here, but altering the settings in a Part 95 certified radio and still being within the Part 95 specifications is NOT acceptable?
The FCC says this:
§95.335 Operation of non-certified transmitters prohibited.
Except as provided in paragraph (a) of this section, no person shall operate a transmitter in any Personal Radio Service unless it is a certified transmitter; that is, a transmitter of a type which has obtained a grant of equipment certification for that service, pursuant to part 2, subpart J of this chapter. Use of a transmitter that is not FCC-certified voids the user's authority to operate that station. See sections 302(a), (
, and (e) of the Communications Act (47 U.S.C. 302(a), ( , and (e)).§95.1773 GMRS authorized bandwidths.
Each GMRS transmitter type must be designed such that the occupied bandwidth does not exceed the authorized bandwidth for the channels used. Operation of GMRS stations must also be in compliance with these requirements.
§95.1773 GMRS authorized bandwidths.
(a) Main chanThe authorized bandwidth is 20 kHz for GMRS transmitters operating on any of the 462 MHz main channels (see §95.1763(a)) or any of the 467 MHz main channels. (see §95.1763©).
(
Interstitial channels. The authorized bandwidth is 20 kHz for GMRS transmitters operating on any of the 462 MHz interstitial channels (see §95.1763( ) and is 12.5 kHz for GMRS transmitters operating on any of the 467 MHz interstitial channels (see §95.1763(d)).I thought I had read in the FCC rules that using a radio NOT certified in that part is unacceptable, and I didn't find ANY reference to Part 90 being acceptable, reprogrammed, for operation under Part 95.
It just sounds like a double standard to me... Advocating using a reprogrammed Part 90 certified radio under Part 95, but telling someone it is illegal to use a Part 95 radio, reprogrammed to operate under the Part 95 allotted bandwidth of 20kHz.
Maybe someone can clear it up so I am not confused about the legalities?
$10,000 in fines and a yanked license seems a tad more expensive than a $250 price tag on a radio.
Confused in Vancooterviile...
Look back and read a page or two in this very thread.
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Frequency coordination is not really official. They really have no power to stop anyone from doing anything. All the FCC cares about is interference between users. FACT, if someone has a parked frequency pair, for amateur radio, but it's not used, and you put up a repeater, the FCC will not give a damn. If there is no interference, there is no problem. frequency coordinators do not own the frequencies. If they file a complaint with the FCC and there is no interference, the FCC won't care.
Yep, I am aware. However, it was made perfectly clear by local hamsters that the ostracization and the intentional QRM that would follow on any amateur repeater that I put up without coordination would make it annoying and mostly unused and unusable. It's like that in my AO. Then, there is the limitation on work traffic and the individual license factor for family members and friends' families. GMRS solves all of those problems for us here.
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While the emission type is permitted (equipment aside) I honestly don't know if DMR text messages exceed the 1s transmission time limit.
If you really want to do GMRS DMR, apply for a variance with the FCC. I know they have granted a few in CA for experimental purposes. I don't know the circumstances, but worth a shot.
It does beg a different question, why? You could do a private DMR repeater in amateur radio extremely easily.
I think I can answer that... Some, like me, don't want the hassle of frequency coordination and prefer the broader use allowed by GMRS. As I understand it in my AO, frequency coordination has locked up most amateur radio repeater pairs. Some are camped on the pairs without even having a repeater on the air for years/decades. When I checked into it some time back, I was told "Good luck getting a pair!" by local hamsters.
We also use GMRS for actual work; can't do that with amateur. Additionally, there is the big appeal of immediate family members being able to transmit under the one license; no tests required.
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I have been following this thread for a little bit now, a lot of really good information! Has anyone that uses a DMR radio in the HAM world programmed it to work in analog on the GMRS frequencies? I am thinking about getting into the DMR world on the ham side and would love to be able to have the GMRS freqs in there just in case.
The frequencies are just frequencies. Of course, DMR works perfectly fine on GMRS frequencies! There are even parts of the country where you can find DMR, P25, etc repeaters on GMRS. There have been several radio operators in my AO using DMR on simplex regularly.
However, part 95 does not currently allow it and the FCC has been quite resistant to the idea.
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That is exactly my need. Sending short bursts of text messages. My question wasn't about "finding equipment". It was about what is legal and what is not.
You and the FCC seems to have said it's legal. Just limited. Finding part 95 equipment is an entirely different subject. But I have found that eventually the FCC comes around to what people use. It used to be illegal to have GMRS handhelds with removable antenna, not now. It used to be illegal to transmit 2W on FRS. Not now. It used to be illegal to transmit high power on CB. Not now. What changed? People used it and the FCC came around. So it's not about finding equipment. It's what's legal and what's not. That was the question. And the reason I asked is because I like to stay on the right side of the line. So knowing exactly where the line is, helps.
Thanks for the comments.
"You and the FCC seems to have said it's legal. Just limited"
No, the FCC has stated that DMR is not acceptable on GMRS at this time. The only allowance they made was for FRS and only in the finite definitions of when and how in part 95.
"It used to be illegal to have GMRS handhelds with removable antenna, not now."
AFAIK, it was not illegal to have GMRS handhelds with removable antennae. That was FRS. The reason you saw that with the FRS/GMRS combination handhelds was to comply with FRS. Now, of course, no more dual use handhelds can be marketed under the rules.
"It used to be illegal to transmit high power on CB. Not now."
No, the current rules still limit CB to 4 watts AM and 12 watts SSB.
"So knowing exactly where the line is, helps."
You need to look carefully at part 95 yourself and then ask questions. It is written in plain English.
- Radioguy7268 and berkinet
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The intent was to allow some devices text on FRS HTs, which was a niche thing a little while ago.
It still exists... https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/c12521-p1.html?series=BRAND476&sorter=featuredProducts-desc
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AFAIK, it was a carve-out to specifically allow the Garmin Rino line of radios to continue to operate. So far, the FCC has continued to block DMR on GMRS except in a certain instance, IIRC, where someone requested a special license allowance for DMR to do testing/research.
- berkinet, Radioguy7268, SUPERG900 and 1 other
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Yep, crank up the volume control to listed to the NB operator, then get blasted out of the room when the next person to transmit is WB...
You nailed it. That's exactly what ended up happening. Our area has a weekly net and the narrow band/wide band shtick got old real quick. I believe that all of our narrow-banders in the area have went to wide band radios since.
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I broke the speed limit on the highway yesterday and went past a police officer. Since I wasn't ticketed, there is no speed limit.
Non Sequitur.
ETA: If the FCC rigorously enforced the regulations regarding Part 90 equipment on GMRS, many repeaters would be forced off the air. IMHO, they know this and choose to turn a blind eye. What the FCC did NOT want to do is open a blanket exemption for all Part 90 equipment and they even stated that. The compromise they chose, knowingly or not, was selective enforcement. It would have been wiser if the FCC did the heavy lifting and crafted clear exemptions in GMRS but they didn't. -
I'd have to find the time to go looking for them. I know Corey is one owner. I don't remember the names of the other folks, but I recall 2 or three people said they had the same experience as Corey.
As far as if the site or the radio is in compliance... that seems like an awfully silly question to me. Why would the FCC not include the repeater equipment in the site inspection or deem the repeater site to be in compliance and pass inspection if there was illegal equipment being used? That is a major component that the FCC would issue a deficiency on if the transceivers were not correct.
This happens all of the time with federal regulatory agencies. It can help cover liability to the agency for the individual and/or entity but it cannot change regulations.
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It is all clearly laid out in my previous post. https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/1837-midland-gmrs-product-updates/?p=19047
Part 95 allows for exception for LMR certified equipment in the Personal Radio Services, however, it must be specified in that particular service's section. For GMRS, that has been changed to "reserved" so there is no exception for GMRS at this time in the current regulations.
§ 95.335 Operation of non-certified transmitters prohibited.Except as provided in paragraph ( a ) of this section, no person shall operate a transmitter in any Personal Radio Service unless it is a certified transmitter; that is, a transmitter of a type which has obtained a grant of equipment certification for that service, pursuant to part 2, subpart J of this chapter. Use of a transmitter that is not FCC-certified voids the user's authority to operate that station. See sections 302( a ), ( b ), and ( e ) of the Communications Act (47 U.S.C. 302( a ), ( b ), and ( e )).
( a ) Exceptions. Under certain exceptions, non-certified Personal Radio Service transmitters, or transmitters certified for use in the land mobile radio services may be operated. Any such exceptions applicable to stations in a Personal Radio Service are set forth in the subpart governing that specific service. See e.g., §§ 95.735 and 95.1735.
( b ) Revoked or withdrawn certification. In the event that the FCC revokes or withdraws a grant of equipment certification for a type of Personal Radio Service transmitter, existing transmitters already in service may continue to be operated unless and until the FCC determines otherwise and gives Public Notice of that decision.
( c ) Grantee permissible modifications. Only the grantee of the equipment certification may modify the design of a certified Personal Radio Service transmitter type, and then only pursuant to and in full compliance with the requirements and procedures for permissible changes and modifications in part 2 of this chapter. See §§ 2.932 and 2.1043 of this chapter.
Maximum Wattage?
in FCC Rules Discussion
Posted
In the 1970s in our city it wasn't so kosher; especially at night. It sounded similar to today but less impolite between individuals. Still there were a lot of shenanigans, keying over others, illegal wattage, sexual content, etc.