Interesting comments being filed with the fcc on unused 46Mhz/49Mhz pairs

[Blaise]

Maybe instead of thinking of this as a "One band can't do both those frequency ranges"  *problem*, it should be looked at as a "maybe GMRS should have cross-band repeaters, and maybe they could be used to build networks of repeaters with "not public network" connections..." *opportunity*.

[marcspaz]

@Lscott I tested my screwdriver with a field strength meter and compared it to my dipole and my dedicated whips. On 80m, I only had a 1.8% efficiency rate. On 40m, it was about 30%, and on 20m it was about 50%.

 

I switched over to Diamond mono band 86.6" whips and retested. The dedicated whip was still less that 2% efficiency rate on 80m. However, on 40m, it was 50%+ and 20m was almost 90%.

[WRTC928]

TBH, I can't imagine hams making much use of the 46/49 MHz band. It has the same disadvantages as 6 meters, and hams hardly use that band. OTOH, if it was added to GMRS, I can imagine lots of people putting it to practical use. Hams (mostly) are all about the distance, and that band doesn't open up for long-distance communication very often. However, it does reliably provide more distance than UHF, and lots of GMRS folks could find a use for that. As I commented above, I doubt there would be an explosion of VHF/UHF GMRS radios, but I suspect the majority of GMRS users have a single use in mind. 46/49 would be excellent for situations where communication is mostly from one base unit to another, or where an HT isn't necessary (think ranches where a vehicle-mounted unit would be perfectly adequate). Heck, with cross-band repeat, you could even use an HT in those situations. If I had a 46/49 MHz radio with AM capability and 50-100 watts, I could talk to my friends in several nearby towns that I can't reach with UHF. I could probably reach the family farm several miles west of my hometown. 

[FishinGary]

There are 6m repeaters, too. There are a few in my area. Like any repeaters, they get used. Just not 24/7/365.

[WRYZ926]

GMRS users would be secondary to the US military on 46/49 MHz just like amateur radio is secondary on the 6m band. The US military still uses 30 MHz through 88 MHz for VHF FM radios such as the SINCGARS radios. 

I can see 46/49 MHz being used to link GMRS repeaters. I know its common to use 1.25m/220 MHz repeaters to link 2m repeaters. 

[WRQI583]

On 5/26/2025 at 12:14 AM, Jaay said:

Guess what ?? 6 meters was open yesterday and Today !! I made 11 new contacts on usb , and 4 on fm @ 50 watts !

The bands have been dead in my area except for night time where 160-20 come alive. 6m is always dead quiet every time I have gotten on there.

[Lscott]

2 hours ago, marcspaz said:

@Lscott I tested my screwdriver with a field strength meter and compared it to my dipole and my dedicated whips. On 80m, I only had a 1.8% efficiency rate. On 40m, it was about 30%, and on 20m it was about 50%.

 

I switched over to Diamond mono band 86.6" whips and retested. The dedicated whip was still less that 2% efficiency rate on 80m. However, on 40m, it was 50%+ and 20m was almost 90%.

Yuck!! That's even worse than my guess on 75/80. It would fair to say using those antennas would be equivalent to a QRP radio with a full sized dipole. The testing you did should be impressed on Hams operating mobile. Some spend a fortune on those antennas to operate on the HF low bands.

[WRYZ926]

The HF bands have been bad for the last few weeks, especially 10m and 12m. 

I've only used 6m on SSB and digital modes as my antenna is not resonant in the FM portion of the band. There is only one 6m FM repeater in Missouri and its status is in limbo right now. 

[Lscott]

28 minutes ago, WRQI583 said:

The bands have been dead in my area except for night time where 160-20 come alive. 6m is always dead quiet every time I have gotten on there.

That's why it's called the "Magic Band." If it's open it wakes up from the dead.

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, WRTC928 said:

OTOH, if it was added to GMRS, I can imagine lots of people putting it to practical use. Hams (mostly) are all about the distance, and that band doesn't open up for long-distance communication very often.

So when the 6m band is open propagation is likely the same on 46/49 MHz and people will flock to it just to shoot skip. I've heard stories where Hams see distance TV stations on the old analog channel 2 and knew the 6m band was open and dashed for the shack to rack up a few more QSL cards.

[Lscott]

2 hours ago, Blaise said:

Maybe instead of thinking of this as a "One band can't do both those frequency ranges"  *problem*, it should be looked at as a "maybe GMRS should have cross-band repeaters, and maybe they could be used to build networks or repeaters with not "public network" connections..." *opportunity*.

That will get shot dead by some. Beginning to sound more like Ham Lite.

[marcspaz]

30 minutes ago, Lscott said:

Yuck!! That's even worse than my guess on 75/80. It would fair to say using those antennas would be equivalent to a QRP radio with a full sized dipole. The testing you did should be impressed on Hams operating mobile. Some spend a fortune on those antennas to operate on the HF low bands.

 

I agree for sure.  Anything under 20m is very hard to get communications out of while mobile.  80m and 100% equal to QRP, for sure.  100w in for less than 2w out.  If you are actually moving, that makes it even harder.  I have seen some guys spend $2,500 or more for some of these high-power screwdriver antennas, but it's pointless unless they have a mobile 1,000w amp.  Even then, the 1,000w to the antenna on 80m would be like 150w-180w to a proper vertical antenna (not even a dipole).  That antenna would be hot enough to cook on.  LOL

[Blaise]

3 hours ago, Lscott said:

That will get shot dead by some. Beginning to sound more like Ham Lite.

I mean, isn't that practically the definition of GMRS?  We already have repeaters.   Having some that can talk to each other on a more distance-friendly band isn't exactly a stretch...

Imagine FEMA or some disaster-relief group being able to set up a small network of these things such that one or more GMRS channels are connected and reachable across a three county disaster area.  Not for emergency responders, but for moms to figure out where their kids are, and churches and community Centers to tell neighborhood members they are open and receiving displaced/hungry/cold people!  Three devices set up atop a few important hills would be a trivially cheap investment, and because the network is cross-band, even kiddie radios could have access in an emergency.  Then you just hand out boxes of sub $10 radios to anyone who needs them.

Or in normal use, local groups who want to be able to connect/coordinate over fairly large areas, like hunting/camping/search parties/storm watchers/etc. could set up a couple/three and stay in touch over tens of miles, rather than just miles.  And no worry about people who don't want/need to get ham licenses, because now, they only have to spend 3-5 hours finding some forms to fill out at the FCC and some cash.

 

[WSHH887]

We really don't need or in my case particularly want an agency like FEMA having any easier time dispensing questionable information during a disaster.  I've started setting up a small network of folks in my neighborhood so we can communicate should something happen.  I can't say I came up with the idea.  A, sadly now deceased gentleman set up a phone tree in this area before I moved in 46 years ago.  He was a HAM (started as a WWII Marine radioman).  It sort of died as a lot of folks did as well.  Now I'm the old guy, just using newer technology.  

By the way this was motivated by a home invasion where a neighbor and kid sat in terror as individuals broke in and ransacked the house.  The 911 operator who kept promising the police would arrive soon convinced her to stay on the phone so she couldn't call anyone else for help.

[Lscott]

15 hours ago, Blaise said:

I mean, isn't that practically the definition of GMRS?  We already have repeaters.   Having some that can talk to each other on a more distance-friendly band isn't exactly a stretch...

I fully understand the intend. However the FCC's vision is more along the lines of personal, and family, use. Look at paragraph three on this FCC page.

https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs

Further look at paragraph four on this FCC page about linking repeater systems under the "operations" tab.

There is little reason why the average user would need to have access to linked repeater systems across the country. Now if one could convince the FCC that GMRS has evolved into a hobby type service, where such activity makes sense, they would likely state that's what the Armature Radio service was established to enable. The FCC has clamped down on linked repeaters lately. I think you'll have a difficult time changing their mind.

[Blaise]

3 hours ago, Lscott said:

the FCC's vision is more along the lines of personal, and family, use. Look at paragraph three

Agreed that that is the stated intent, but it seems like if they really wanted to restrict it like that, there would be only current-FRS-equipment-restricted GMRS or FRS, not both.  Using a GMRS radio requires technical activities like programming and tuning antennas.  That's not "Mom wants you home" or "Joe the lawn service guy" personal, by any means.  "Hobby" or not, it's a technical service!  Besides, we're talking about *changing* GMRS, so definitions may shift...
 

 

3 hours ago, Lscott said:

There is little reason why the average user would need to have access to linked repeater systems across the country.

I agree, but I wasn't suggesting that. I was talking about covering a couple of counties.  Maybe 200 miles max, for my examples. For people who really need the range, but GMRS falls short. 

For example, trying to hunt down a weather-balloon experiment gone horribly wrong (not that I've ever done that multiple times  ) can require coordinating dozens of search units in a four-county search that covers thousands of square miles.  As the crow flies, the max spread might be 150 miles, but especially in places with mountains, you end up with five or six people driving out to high spots and relaying messages back and forth like a big game of telephone (which would be a better solution, if there were any towers nearby) being able to take a pair of long-range linked repeaters to the top of strategically tall and unobstructed geographic features would enable GMRS to cover all three counties directly...
 

[Lscott]

14 minutes ago, Blaise said:

Agreed that that is the stated intent, but it seems like if they really wanted to restrict it like that, there would be only current-FRS-equipment-restricted GMRS or FRS, not both.

We're stuck with the mistake the FCC made years back by allowing the sale of "dual mode" radios, combo of GMRS and FRS, at the time. The radios included the original 14 FRS only channels in addition to the GMRS specific channels. The radios came with a disclaimer the user could not use the GMRS specific channels in the radio without having a license. At that time the license was around $80 to $90 for 5 years, and the radios sold for maybe $50 for a pair in blister packs like kids toys. You think anyone read the disclaimer, and if so did they care when the cost of the license was so high? Nope! The just stuck the batteries in and keyed up on whatever channel the radio could operate on.

So, what did the FCC do with the 2017 rule changes? Well they through in the towel and just made what people were already doing legal. Now they didn't have to deal with the enforcement issues, simple solution. Now we're stuck with it. At least the FRS radios can't use repeaters. That would have been a complete mess.

25 minutes ago, Blaise said:

For example, trying to hunt down a weather-balloon experiment gone horribly wrong (not that I've ever done that multiple times 

I've been on a high altitude balloon chase once. Lots of fun. Got up to about 93K feet. The guys doing it had GPS tracking, track was shown live on a map using software running on a laptop, in the payload and a UHF live video down-link too. That was all done using Ham frequencies, including the balloon communications. You can't do that on any GMRS frequencies.

30 minutes ago, Blaise said:

Maybe 200 miles max, for my examples. For people who really need the range, but GMRS falls short. 

That's why the FCC will tell people to get an Amateur License. As the link in my prior post mentions the FCC's statement about GMRS is for "short range communications." I wouldn't call 200 miles short range on UHF.

What you're effectively proposing is a change in the nature of use the GMRS service is targeted to serve. That I think is going to be one very tough sell to the FCC.

41 minutes ago, Blaise said:

Using a GMRS radio requires technical activities like programming and tuning antennas.  That's not "Mom wants you home" or "Joe the lawn service guy" personal, by any means.  "Hobby" or not, it's a technical service! 

Not so much. The antennas are basically plug and play for the most part and so are the very basic radios. Where people get confused is mostly figuring out repeater access, and advance features like dual watch etc. If it wasn't for that it's nearly the same as 11m CB radio, which is about as plug-and-play as you can get. Of course there are those few who want to learn more and experiment building antennas, that's cool. Those people sooner or later end up getting their Armature License. Me, it was the reverse, Ham first, and later got the GMRS license because it seemed so cool to have. At the time it wasn't well known, and the license cost was up there. Didn't really use GMRS so let the license expire. Years later reapplied and got a new GMRS call sign, my current one.

[Blaise]

2 hours ago, Lscott said:

I wouldn't call 200 miles short range on UHF.

Well, it wouldn't *be* on UHF, would it? 

[WRYZ926]

200 miles can be a stretch even for VHF frequencies depending on location, terrain, height of the antennas, etc..

The antennas for our Motorola 2m and 70cm repeaters is at 900 feet above ground. And we are only getting around 85 mile radius on 2m and about 35 mile radius on 70cm.