New to GMRS and looking for a better antenna..

[WSIZ258]

Hello all,

I'm new to GMRS, but I'm enjoying the journey so far! I recently got my GMRS license and a couple of radios ( UV5G, and UV5G+). They've been great for listening to NOAA, a few radio stations here and there (FM), and I even picked up some chatter on a repeater once! However, I think I should invest in some new antennas as, research has suggested, the stock antenna are okay but can be improved upon.

Can someone point me to a good antenna for these? Ideally they wouldn't be huge whip antennas, but I'm not sure if there are short antennas that are powerful as it seems "bigger is better" in tis case. But, I'd love to have something that didn't catch on things as I walked around

Thanks for any input! Still learning about all this and trying to figure out how to make it all work!

 

 

[nokones]

You won't be able to measure any difference between the performance of the OEM and after-market antennae. The OEM antenna will do just fine.

[WRYZ926]

I tried the Nagoya 771 antenna on my Baofeng radios along with radios from various manufacturers. The 771 is around 15.5" long.

I did see a small improvement when using the 771 on my Baofeng radios. But the OEM antennas on all of my other hand held radios worked better. Plus you have a longer antenna to deal with.

You are better off just sticking with the OEM antenna the radios come with.

[hxpx]

I can hit a local repeater about 25 miles out with a 771 clone that I can't with the stock antenna but a 15" whip is annoying inside a vehicle.

I also went down the "big antenna = maximum fars" rabbit hole but it turned out I don't really use it except to be a radio dork and listen to that one repeater - the stock antenna works fine like 90% of the time. I bought an even longer whip for ham stuff which did make a difference, but the biggest boost came from sticking that antenna on a mobile mag mount with 16' of coax and putting it out on my front porch.

I'd say hold off on the bigger antenna unless your use case requires it.

Edit: that said, the Abbree 771 was also like ten bucks so it's not going to break the bank if you want to pick one up just to mess around with it.

[LeoG]

I keep the Nagoya 771G antenna on my Tidradio H3 because it performs better than the stock antenna.  If you want a shorter antenna that is better than stock (not by much) go for the Smiley Rubber Duck antenna.  It's a bit shorter and it's a wound antenna, so it's thicker and not very flexible.  This is all based on the H3 and all radios act differently with non-OEM antennas.

If you are using a 771 antenna and not a 771G antenna that may be the reason you aren't getting any improvement.  The 771 antenna is a HAM antenna for 440Mhz and not the GMRS bands.

[WRYZ926]

47 minutes ago, LeoG said:

If you are using a 771 antenna and not a 771G antenna that may be the reason you aren't getting any improvement.  The 771 antenna is a HAM antenna for 440Mhz and not the GMRS bands.

That will make a difference.

I have tried the Nagoya and Abbree 771 and 771G with all of my hand held radios. The 771 did make an improvement with my Baofeng GT-5R and the 771G did make an improvement with my Baofeng UF-5R GMRS radios.

I tried the 771 on my Icom IC-T10, Explorer QRZ-1 (TYT UV-88), Wouxun KG-Q10H, and Wouxun KG-935H. In every single case with these radios, the stock antennas worked better.

I also tried the 771G on my Wouxun KG-935G and again the stock antenna worked better.

You won't know if an aftermarket antenna will be better, worse, or the same as a stock antenna without trying. And yes the longer 771 is a pain to use in a vehicle or even when carrying a radio on your belt.

The best improvement you can make is to use an external antenna on your vehicle or a base antenna at home.

[WSIZ258]

Thanks for the input and guidance everyone. Maybe I'm putting too much faith in an antenna and I just need to spend more time adjusting my frequencies, making sure I have the right tones, etc... Outside of NOAA and FM radio, I've only heard one other person on a repeater. Perhaps it's just a VERY quiet area.

Do I need to worry about offset settings or anything? I just key in the local repeater frequencies and add R-DCS codes that show up on the sites... I thought maybe a better antenna would help. Still learning! Thanks everyone. 

[SteveShannon]

16 minutes ago, WSIZ258 said:

Thanks for the input and guidance everyone. Maybe I'm putting too much faith in an antenna and I just need to spend more time adjusting my frequencies, making sure I have the right tones, etc... Outside of NOAA and FM radio, I've only heard one other person on a repeater. Perhaps it's just a VERY quiet area.

Do I need to worry about offset settings or anything? I just key in the local repeater frequencies and add R-DCS codes that show up on the sites... I thought maybe a better antenna would help. Still learning! Thanks everyone. 

You need the T-DCS code to get into the repeater. You can hear everything the repeater transmits without an R-DCS. 
If you’re using a GMRS radio and you’re using a repeater channel the offset is automatically added. 

[dosw]

8 minutes ago, WSIZ258 said:

Thanks for the input and guidance everyone. Maybe I'm putting too much faith in an antenna and I just need to spend more time adjusting my frequencies, making sure I have the right tones, etc... Outside of NOAA and FM radio, I've only heard one other person on a repeater. Perhaps it's just a VERY quiet area.

Do I need to worry about offset settings or anything? I just key in the local repeater frequencies and add R-DCS codes that show up on the sites... I thought maybe a better antenna would help. Still learning! Thanks everyone. 

UV-5G and 5G Plus are GMRS radios and come configured with channels for repeaters that are already with the +5MHz offset. You should only have to add the tones.

 

First, how are you testing? If you're testing by keying up one radio and wanting to hear yourself on another radio, that won't work. If the radios are within a block of each other, there's a good chance one is desensing the other. Think of it this way: If your wife is talking to you in a normal voice from the next room, you will hear her. Now turn on the window air conditioner in your room and keep listening. You can't hear her. Her voice is just as loud as before, but your ears and brain are desensitized by the fact that there's another loud noise nearby. Radios work similarly; if a radio is transmitting on 467.7000 (repeater input) at 5w and another is listening at 462.7000 (repeater output) only a few feet away, the dreaded "spurious emissions" and the "poor selectivity" of your radio are such that it's like the transmitting radio is shouting in its ears, so the listening radio cannot hear the repeater 20 miles away that is only whispering. So you have to adjust your test; someone needs to take the listening radio a block away.

 

If you've done that and still aren't getting through, turn OFF the tones on your radio and keep them turned off for a few days of listening. Do you hear people occasionally? If yes, then your tones were probably wrong. If no, then you haven't learned much; it could just be a quiet repeater. If you determine your codes were wrong, check them again and enter them more carefully. Retest.

 

What about a kerchunk? Do you hear that when you key up the repeater? If not, take antenna out of the mix. Get in your car and drive closer to the repeater. Set the tones that the repeater needs before you leave the house. Drive close to the repeater, and key it up. Do you hear the kerchunk? Yes? You're good. No? You're not configured correctly.

Now let's assume you get the kerchunk meaning you're configured correctly. Drive back home. Now do you get it? Then your antenna is also adequate. Not getting it? You're out of range. A different antenna *may* help, but more probably won't help.

[hxpx]

27 minutes ago, WSIZ258 said:

Thanks for the input and guidance everyone. Maybe I'm putting too much faith in an antenna and I just need to spend more time adjusting my frequencies, making sure I have the right tones, etc... Outside of NOAA and FM radio, I've only heard one other person on a repeater. Perhaps it's just a VERY quiet area.

Do I need to worry about offset settings or anything? I just key in the local repeater frequencies and add R-DCS codes that show up on the sites... I thought maybe a better antenna would help. Still learning! Thanks everyone. 

The repeater I can hear is quiet most of the day. It picks up around lunch and in the evenings but even then it was the same handful of guys who'd hop on to talk about food and complain about sports.

Your radio should have repeater channels with offsets already programmed - you may just need to set the TX tone. You can always announce your call sign and ask for a radio check to see if anyone's listening - when I was fiddling with my antennas, I sometimes got a response from one of the regulars even if nobody was talking.

If you're looking to talk to random people with a radio, the 2m/70cm ham repeaters around me get way more traffic. GMRS is geared more towards "I want to talk to people in my group" though some people use repeaters for random chat.

[WRTC928]

46 minutes ago, hxpx said:

If you're looking to talk to random people with a radio, the 2m/70cm ham repeaters around me get way more traffic. GMRS is geared more towards "I want to talk to people in my group" though some people use repeaters for random chat.

I have noticed, though, that there's almost always someone monitoring a GMRS repeater, perhaps because they're personally owned and the owner monitors it. 

[WSIZ258]

1 hour ago, dosw said:

UV-5G and 5G Plus are GMRS radios and come configured with channels for repeaters that are already with the +5MHz offset. You should only have to add the tones.

 

First, how are you testing? If you're testing by keying up one radio and wanting to hear yourself on another radio, that won't work. If the radios are within a block of each other, there's a good chance one is desensing the other. Think of it this way: If your wife is talking to you in a normal voice from the next room, you will hear her. Now turn on the window air conditioner in your room and keep listening. You can't hear her. Her voice is just as loud as before, but your ears and brain are desensitized by the fact that there's another loud noise nearby. Radios work similarly; if a radio is transmitting on 467.7000 (repeater input) at 5w and another is listening at 462.7000 (repeater output) only a few feet away, the dreaded "spurious emissions" and the "poor selectivity" of your radio are such that it's like the transmitting radio is shouting in its ears, so the listening radio cannot hear the repeater 20 miles away that is only whispering. So you have to adjust your test; someone needs to take the listening radio a block away.

 

If you've done that and still aren't getting through, turn OFF the tones on your radio and keep them turned off for a few days of listening. Do you hear people occasionally? If yes, then your tones were probably wrong. If no, then you haven't learned much; it could just be a quiet repeater. If you determine your codes were wrong, check them again and enter them more carefully. Retest.

 

What about a kerchunk? Do you hear that when you key up the repeater? If not, take antenna out of the mix. Get in your car and drive closer to the repeater. Set the tones that the repeater needs before you leave the house. Drive close to the repeater, and key it up. Do you hear the kerchunk? Yes? You're good. No? You're not configured correctly.

Now let's assume you get the kerchunk meaning you're configured correctly. Drive back home. Now do you get it? Then your antenna is also adequate. Not getting it? You're out of range. A different antenna *may* help, but more probably won't help.

Wow, this is great info! Thank you. I've just been testing my radios one at a time and seeing what they can pick up on the repeaters. I haven't tried any simplex between the two and have only had one active at a time. 

I'm not quite sure what "kerchunk" is... but I'll research it! When I go to get the info for my local repeaters from a site like '"Front Range GMRS" (as redirected from here), I just key in the frequency and then adjust the R-DCS to what is specified on the site. I'll run through all the local repeaters a few times a day, but I haven't heard anything. I'm sure I'm missing something. When you say "turn off the tones", would that be the R-DCS settings (sorry that is just the menu terminology in my radio), or is there another group you recommend?

1 hour ago, hxpx said:

The repeater I can hear is quiet most of the day. It picks up around lunch and in the evenings but even then it was the same handful of guys who'd hop on to talk about food and complain about sports.

Your radio should have repeater channels with offsets already programmed - you may just need to set the TX tone. You can always announce your call sign and ask for a radio check to see if anyone's listening - when I was fiddling with my antennas, I sometimes got a response from one of the regulars even if nobody was talking.

If you're looking to talk to random people with a radio, the 2m/70cm ham repeaters around me get way more traffic. GMRS is geared more towards "I want to talk to people in my group" though some people use repeaters for random chat.

I'd eventually like to be able to use the radios with my buddies, but for now I'm just trying to get a handle on the ins and outs of how it all works. I don't think I want to get full into ham at the moment as I don't have the time/money/bandwidth to go that far. But, it'd be nice to have a tool for some crisis communications if I needed it, and for communicating with friends on trips when the need arises. 

The radio does have pre-programmed channels and repeaters (VFO/MR), but I've just been keying in stuff. Maybe I messed up all my settings and I need to factory reset to try again....

Thanks for all the info everyone, I appreciate it. it seems that "Front Range GMRS" does a thing on Friday nights on GMRS Channel 19 so people can check their radios and such. Perhaps I'll give that a shot tonight! Never have pushed the PTT button yet

[UncleYoda]

If you're keying in the frequency, then you're probably on a channel that has transmit disabled or in VFO mode where some radios also have transmit disabled.  Kerchunk is the sound you hear from the repeater when you press and release the push-to-talk button.

[WSIZ258]

well.. some moderate success tonight. I heard a few more folks, one on a repeater and another on Simplex. However, I couldn't get a response when I asked for a signal check. I have my R and T DCS tones set, and I'm using channel mode (not VFO), but no responses. My daughter took one of the radios to another part of the house and we tried simplex, and that worked... I'll just keep trying the repeater over the next few days.

Thanks for the help all.

[SteveShannon]

9 hours ago, WSIZ258 said:

well.. some moderate success tonight. I heard a few more folks, one on a repeater and another on Simplex. However, I couldn't get a response when I asked for a signal check. I have my R and T DCS tones set, and I'm using channel mode (not VFO), but no responses. My daughter took one of the radios to another part of the house and we tried simplex, and that worked... I'll just keep trying the repeater over the next few days.

Thanks for the help all.

Having R-DCS set will block everything that isn’t transmitted with the same DCS code.  Leaving R-DCS cleared out allows you to hear everything that is transmitted on that frequency.

If you set T-DCS nobody will hear you except those who have a matching R-DCS or those who have no R-DCS.

My recommendation for someone who isn’t hearing an expected response on a repeater is to leave the receive tone off but you must have the correct tone or code (remember there’s both CTCSS, which is a tone, and DTCSS, which is a digital code) when transmitting.  

You might also try getting closer to the repeater. 

Finally, not everyone using GMRS wants to respond to an unknown person on a repeater.  Have your daughter take the other radio and walk a ways away and see if you can hear each other on the repeater.

[WSIZ258]

4 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

Having R-DCS set will block everything that isn’t transmitted with the same DCS code.  Leaving R-DCS cleared out allows you to hear everything that is transmitted on that frequency.

If you set T-DCS nobody will hear you except those who have a matching R-DCS or those who have no R-DCS.

My recommendation for someone who isn’t hearing an expected response on a repeater is to leave the receive tone off but you must have the correct tone or code (remember there’s both CTCSS, which is a tone, and DTCSS, which is a digital code) when transmitting.  

You might also try getting closer to the repeater. 

Finally, not everyone using GMRS wants to respond to an unknown person on a repeater.  Have your daughter take the other radio and walk a ways away and see if you can hear each other on the repeater.

this all makes sense. I surely must've been doing something wrong. The folks I heard on the repeater were doing signal checks and jumping to other repeaters to see if they could hear each other on the other repeaters as well. But, perhaps they just didn't want to respond to an unknown either!

I thought I had the correct tones setup from our local page, but I never saw anything for CTCSS or DTCSS, only receive and transmit tones that corresponded to DCS settings. Good idea to try without the Receive tone. 

[SteveShannon]

3 hours ago, WSIZ258 said:

this all makes sense. I surely must've been doing something wrong. The folks I heard on the repeater were doing signal checks and jumping to other repeaters to see if they could hear each other on the other repeaters as well. But, perhaps they just didn't want to respond to an unknown either!

I thought I had the correct tones setup from our local page, but I never saw anything for CTCSS or DTCSS, only receive and transmit tones that corresponded to DCS settings. Good idea to try without the Receive tone. 

DTCSS is the same as DCS or DPL. Different companies call it different things. 
CTCSS is the same as PL.

[WSIZ258]

Well.. tried again today when I heard some people jump on to do signal checks. A random guy jumped on asking for signal check, and another person answered along the lines of "I'm not sure if you're looking for someone in particular to confirm, but I can hear you just fine". Once they ended their quick back and forth, I keyed up asking for the same, but with no response. I'm certainly doing something wrong. I've got my "Receive Tones" off, and my "transmit tones" set to the settings provided me. There are no other codes that I can see on the repeater listing page. I can hear traffic, but can't broadcast in. I'm also not hearing a "kerchunk" when I hit the PTT button, so I wonder if I have a setting buried somewhere that I've messed up. I've reset both radios to factory and started from scratch... so, conversely, maybe there is something I haven't activated to be able to use the repeaters.

Or, I guess I'm probably just out of range...

[SteveShannon]

11 minutes ago, WSIZ258 said:

Well.. tried again today when I heard some people jump on to do signal checks. A random guy jumped on asking for signal check, and another person answered along the lines of "I'm not sure if you're looking for someone in particular to confirm, but I can hear you just fine". Once they ended their quick back and forth, I keyed up asking for the same, but with no response. I'm certainly doing something wrong. I've got my "Receive Tones" off, and my "transmit tones" set to the settings provided me. There are no other codes that I can see on the repeater listing page. I can hear traffic, but can't broadcast in. I'm also not hearing a "kerchunk" when I hit the PTT button, so I wonder if I have a setting buried somewhere that I've messed up. I've reset both radios to factory and started from scratch... so, conversely, maybe there is something I haven't activated to be able to use the repeaters.

Or, I guess I'm probably just out of range...

The only other thing I can think of is the transmit frequency. The repeater channels receive on the same frequencies as 15-22, but transmit on 467.xxx MHz channels.

[wayoverthere]

Just now, SteveShannon said:

The only other thing I can think of is the transmit frequency. The repeater channels receive on the same frequencies as 15-22, but transmit on 467.xxx MHz channels.

that's the direction i was thinking as well, just trying to turn the train of thought into something coherent.

i suspect the base programming on those uv5g will be similar what shipped on my Btech gmrs50x1, channels 1-22 were the 7 low power simplex frequencies (1-7), the 0.5 watt FRS frequencies (8-14receive only on mine), and then the 8 high power simplex channels (15-22).  Slots 23-30 were set up for repeater use, with the +5.0mhz transmit offset baked in, though they used the same receive frequencies as 15-22.

if i have a local repeater that the output is 462.575, i'll be able to hear it whether i'm on channel 16 or channel 24, because both receive on 462.575.  However, on transmit, channel 16 is transmitting on 462.575 as well, while 24 will incorporate the offset and have me transmitting on 467.575 (which is where the repeater is listening).

 

[hxpx]

28 minutes ago, WSIZ258 said:

Well.. tried again today when I heard some people jump on to do signal checks. A random guy jumped on asking for signal check, and another person answered along the lines of "I'm not sure if you're looking for someone in particular to confirm, but I can hear you just fine". Once they ended their quick back and forth, I keyed up asking for the same, but with no response. I'm certainly doing something wrong. I've got my "Receive Tones" off, and my "transmit tones" set to the settings provided me. There are no other codes that I can see on the repeater listing page. I can hear traffic, but can't broadcast in. I'm also not hearing a "kerchunk" when I hit the PTT button, so I wonder if I have a setting buried somewhere that I've messed up. I've reset both radios to factory and started from scratch... so, conversely, maybe there is something I haven't activated to be able to use the repeaters.

Bummer. Here's a list of things I'd try:

• Verify your offset. Channels 23-30 should already be set to +5 Mhz.
• If you're inside, get outside and away from nearby buildings. I can receive just fine sitting at my desk, but I can't transmit to nearby repeaters unless I'm sitting in a very specific spot (thus the mobile mount on the porch).
• Make sure your radio actually works. My dead TD-H3s act like they're transmitting and I can pick them up from other rooms in the house but not across the neighborhood, much less hit a repeater 25 miles away. Either send someone out with a second radio to make sure it works or get a cheap SWR meter and make sure the HT is sending power to the antenna.
• If everything checks out and you still can't get to the repeater, you can try a 771 GMRS antenna. (Edit: could also try to build a rat tail counterpoise if you're feeling feisty, but if you don't already have a wire stripper/crimping tool, you'd probably spend as much on wire, terminals, and tools as you would on a 771)

[WSIZ258]

These are all helpful! Thank you! It's odd that it is on both radios... I would've thought one might be broken, but not both. How do I verify the offset?

[hxpx]

12 minutes ago, WSIZ258 said:

These are all helpful! Thank you! It's odd that it is on both radios... I would've thought one might be broken, but not both. How do I verify the offset?

Assuming the manuals I have are right:

UV5G: Menu 25 should be SFT-D which is Frequency Shift Direction - should be +, and Menu 26 should be OFFSET and should be 05.000.

UV5G Plus: Same deal but the menu numbers should be 28 and 29

Not sure if the manuals I'm looking at are correct, so you might have to look around for those.

[wayoverthere]

7 minutes ago, WSIZ258 said:

These are all helpful! Thank you! It's odd that it is on both radios... I would've thought one might be broken, but not both. How do I verify the offset?

if they are the same as my uv5r, it will show a "+/-" symbol at the top of the display when the current channel is programmed with an offset.  the "OFFSET" option in the menu (as @hxpx noted) should show what it's set to. 

 

If you have the programming cable, reading the programming from the radio with software (such as CHIRP) is also a possibility. 

[WSIZ258]

ah, it looks like that might be setup wrong on my radios! I'm gonna reset them and try to reprogram in a repeater pair by hand. Maybe that will help!

One other thing I just thought of... the repeaters I am trying to access use DCS codes. would that mean that they are digital repeaters? If so, the baofeng radios are analog right? Would they not be able to access digital repeaters?