GMRS and Aircraft

[WRUE951]

So kicking back at the lake tonight and i catch a conversion with two guys on Ch 16,  one pointing out where he off roads in the Kern Canyon..  I can tell they are in Helicopters and I'm assuming two different aircraft.   Via the conversations they are returning to Bakersfield after doing aerial surveys somewhere in the Kern Valley..  Not that i really care about these two guys yapping but it got my curiosity going.  GMRS is a ground-base communications service, does this mean you or not allowed to use GMRS radios on Aircraft.  I guess i'm being lazy, i couid read the rules again,,  , but last i did, i certaainly don't recall anything in the rules specifying aircract use..   

[OffRoaderX]

There is an aerial acrobatic group that practices out here every Thursday and they use GMRS (or FRS) channel 6, and I've wondered the same thing... But haven't wondered enough to bother looking it up either.

[SteveShannon]

95.307…Operation of Personal Radio Service stations in any location outside of those described in the following paragraphs is not authorized by this part.
(B)Aboard any vessel or aircraft registered in the United States. With the permission of the captain, while the vessel or aircraft is within or over the United States or its territories, U.S. territorial waters, or upon or over international waters.

So, it appears it’s allowed.

[WRUE951]

3 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

 

95.307…Operation of Personal Radio Service stations in any location outside of those described in the following paragraphs is not authorized by this part.
(B)Aboard any vessel or aircraft registered in the United States. With the permission of the captain, while the vessel or aircraft is within or over the United States or its territories, U.S. territorial waters, or upon or over international waters.

So, it appears it’s allowed.

There you go….   I bet these guys get some good range….  …. &n 

[marcspaz]

It is perfectly legal to us GMRS radio in aircraft over the US and it's territories.  I have talked to a friend of mine while in a private plane.  I was mobile in Woodbridge Virginia and they were flying as far away as 47 miles from my location.

 

 

[WRYZ926]

29 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

There you go….   I bet these guys get some good range….  …. &n 

Range will be very good in an aircraft. We have a guy that flies a lot and we can talk to him for a long ways on 2m and 70cm. The range of 70cm will be pretty much the same as GMRS.

We really get good range on the repeater while he is flying. The repeater antennas are at 900-950 feet on a 1000 foot tower. We are blessed to have access to the local radio station's backup tower. 

[WRUE951]

9 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

It is perfectly legal to us GMRS radio in aircraft over the US and it's territories.  I have talked to a friend of mine while in a private plane.  I was mobile in Woodbridge Virginia and they were flying as far away as 47 miles from my location.

 

 

Thats cool stuff.  

[WRKC935]

The services that would be limited by FCC rule are the services that have height limits on antenna's. 

CB would be a good example.  A CB antenna per the rules is limited to 50 feet AGL.  So you couldn't use CB radios in an aircraft.

Commercial radio under Part 90 would be another since at least repeater antenna's are both power and height limited per the issued license. 

 

GMRS really has no AGL restriction.  The only thing in the rules regarding height is that if a mounting structure (tower) is over 200 feet that it be registered as an obstruction and properly lit within the guidelines of the FAA regulations for it's height.  Ham radio is the same way.  They aren't really height limited,  they just need to follow the 'hazard to navigation' regulations that the FAA has for towers exceeding 200 feet in most area's and whatever regulation is imposed in area's around airports where there are additional restrictions.

 

[nokones]

I'm surprised that FR/GMRS does not have any altitude and power restrictions like Part 90 does. Part 90 restricts, or at one time restricted, the altitude not above 5,280 feet AGL and 10 watts.

[nokones]

A few months ago, and on ch. 16, I heard what appeared to be aircraft communicating here in the Phoenix Area talking about should they land at Sedona or Kingman for fuel.

[Davichko5650]

8 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

 

 

So, it appears it’s allowed.

This begs the question, why bother using GMRS for aircraft to aircraft comms when you can just use the already installed VHF radios?  When I've flown with my cousin in a group flights, that's how they did it.  Other than the fact that other aircraft not having GMRS would then not be privy to your conversations?

[SteveShannon]

12 minutes ago, Davichko5650 said:

This begs the question, why bother using GMRS for aircraft to aircraft comms when you can just use the already installed VHF radios?  When I've flown with my cousin in a group flights, that's how they did it.  Other than the fact that other aircraft not having GMRS would then not be privy to your conversations?

I can only speculate, but perhaps they reserve the air band radio for conversations with the tower and leave it tuned to that frequency. Chit chat on GMRS doesn’t affect that.

[amaff]

39 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

I can only speculate, but perhaps they reserve the air band radio for conversations with the tower and leave it tuned to that frequency. Chit chat on GMRS doesn’t affect that.

Likely this. Aviation stuff is wildly expensive. I can definitely see them having 1 air-band radio, using that for unicom or tower frequencies, and then using GMRS or FRS for air-to-air comms.

Slightly different use case, but Civil Air Patrol planes do something similar. Air-band for their aviation work, then air to air and air to ground (for SAR / other mission work) is VHF FM on their designated frequencies.
(And can be configured as airborne repeaters, which is pretty rad).

[WRYZ926]

1 hour ago, amaff said:

Slightly different use case, but Civil Air Patrol planes do something similar. Air-band for their aviation work, then air to air and air to ground (for SAR / other mission work) is VHF FM on their designated frequencies.

That's standard procedure for the military. We would always have at least one ground based forward air controller per brigade and usually had one per brigade combat team. And they used the low VHF band, 30 - 70 (88) MHz.

IN the big Army units, the FAC's were always Air Force  personnel. They always complained about living in the mud and muck with us ground pounders.