A thorny repeater question...

[KBSherwood]

15 minutes ago, WRXL702 said:

FCC has rules not laws...........

This is true, and sloppy wording on my part. the FCC does not make law, it however one of its duties is to enforce its authorizing laws and statutes passed by Congress... in theory.
 

[WRUE951]

8 hours ago, GreggInFL said:

It's not a FCC issue, it's a trespass issue. It doesn't matter what the property is.

Stand bye, the judge will have his interpretation back to you an a minute  

[WRXL702]

24 minutes ago, WSKK363 said:

Regardless of the "legality" the guy op posted about is being an a hole. 

If you put up a repeater anyone can use it. With using it responsibly theres no criminal consequences even if some people want there to be. The police won't come knocking on your door. 

If you dont want people using your repeater dont post about it. Add in multiple tones. Only have it operating at certain times for your team. If you leave it on 24/7 thats on you. You opened the door for everyone to use it. 

 

§ 95.1705 Individual licenses required; eligibility; who may operate; cooperative use.

 

(d) Individual licensee duties. The holder of an individual license:

(1) Shall determine specifically which individuals, including family members, are allowed to operate (i.e., exercise operational control over) its GMRS station(s) (see paragraph (c) of this section);

(2) May allow any person to use (i.e., benefit from the operation of) its GMRS repeater, or alternatively, may limit the use of its GMRS repeater to specific persons;

(3) May disallow the use of its GMRS repeater by specific persons as may be necessary to carry out its responsibilities under this section.

[LeoG]

53 minutes ago, WRXL702 said:

FCC has rules not laws...........

Regulations......

[WSKK363]

25 minutes ago, WRXL702 said:

 

 

§ 95.1705 Individual licenses required; eligibility; who may operate; cooperative use.

 

(d) Individual licensee duties. The holder of an individual license:

(1) Shall determine specifically which individuals, including family members, are allowed to operate (i.e., exercise operational control over) its GMRS station(s) (see paragraph (c) of this section);

(2) May allow any person to use (i.e., benefit from the operation of) its GMRS repeater, or alternatively, may limit the use of its GMRS repeater to specific persons;

(3) May disallow the use of its GMRS repeater by specific persons as may be necessary to carry out its responsibilities under this section.

Cooperative use is huge in this case. The ops repeater owner is not acting cooperative. May disallow would only be acceptable if op was harmfully interfering with the repeater 

It shouldn't have to be any kind of debate. Repeaters are open to use until you abuse it. Even then it is extremely unlikely the fcc will do anything about it.

[LeoG]

So I can take your car because I need it and haven't abused the privilege.  It's private property and as soon as the owner says no you should comply with that.  Airwaves are free, paid for components are not.

[WSDE760]

Very interesting discussion, for the most part, from which one must conclude that a GMRS licensee using a GMRS repeater without, or even against, permission is not violating either law or regulation. 

While I am not condoning doing so, and I am not a lawyer, consensus seems at worst it would be deemed inconsiderate.

Repeater access tones can be detected and used even if unpublished.  Unpublished repeater tones simply cannot confer exclusivity to GMRS repeater access unless regulations are revised to make that so.  GMRS regulations simply do not confer such exclusivity.

Transmitting an order for someone to stay off your GMRS repeater may not constitute interference as defined under FCC regulations but such a presumption is likewise inconsiderate at best. 

It is like the mean old man in the neighborhood where I grew up who would yell at us kids to stay off his sidewalk when we rode our bikes in front of his house.

Just my opinion, but if you desire exclusive radio repeater operations you should apply for an exclusive use business frequency and invest in some encryption capability.  

[WRXL702]

15 minutes ago, LeoG said:

Regulations......

 

The FCC’s rules and regulations are located in Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR).

The official rules are published and maintained by the Government Printing Office (GPO) in the Federal Register. Additional information about the Federal Register is available at the National Archives and Records Administration web site.

An online version of the FCC Rules is available at the GPO e-CFR website. The e-CFR is authorized and maintained by the National Archives and Records Administration's (NARA) Office of the Federal Register (OFR) and GPO.

[WRXL702]

15 minutes ago, WSKK363 said:

Cooperative use is huge in this case. The ops repeater owner is not acting cooperative. May disallow would only be acceptable if op was harmfully interfering with the repeater 

It shouldn't have to be any kind of debate. Repeaters are open to use until you abuse it. Even then it is extremely unlikely the fcc will do anything about it.

You don't always need the FCC for support on unauthorized use of a private gmrs repeater.

Civil litigation works quite well.

[WSKK363]

25 minutes ago, LeoG said:

So I can take your car because I need it and haven't abused the privilege.  It's private property and as soon as the owner says no you should comply with that.  Airwaves are free, paid for components are not.

That is a false equivalence. Repeaters in GMRS are more communal than private. If you want a truely private radio experience then GMRS is not for you. 

[KBSherwood]

26 minutes ago, WRXL702 said:

You don't always need the FCC for support on unauthorized use of a private gmrs repeater.

Civil litigation works quite well.

Does it though? Granted I didnt spend very much time, a quick "protege" search of LexisNexis turned up... nothing. Do you have something you've found that says otherwise? I would be very curious on the basis for relief.  

[LeoG]

23 minutes ago, WSKK363 said:

That is a false equivalence. Repeaters in GMRS are more communal than private. If you want a truely private radio experience then GMRS is not for you. 

They are what the owner designates them as.  Airways are communal, hardware isn't.

[WRXL702]

1 hour ago, KBSherwood said:

This is true, and sloppy wording on my part. the FCC does not make law, it however one of its duties is to enforce its authorizing laws and statutes passed by Congress... in theory.
 

 

The FCC was given authority to create rules & regulations by the Communications Act of 1934, adopted by Congress & signed into law by FDR. 

Current updated versions available for a new era of communications, but still fact - not theory.....

 

 

[marcspaz]

Man, I can tell none of you have ever had to deal with this from the repeater owner's prospective.  I have.... I submitted so many complaints that I lost track, with evidence, about a specific person causing harmful interference for almost a year.  Almost all of my complaints went ignored (zero response) except for one.  The one response I got was that as the owner, it was my responsibility to manage who used my repeater.  So, they are off 99% of the time. And after several years, when this @$$H0l3 realizes my repeater is online, he starts jamming it again.  I can't leave it on for more than a day or two.  This isn't an "I think". "I heard", "the AI Overloads said so"... I lived it.

 

@OffRoaderX is the only other person I know that went through it, too... and he has told you his relatively similar experience several times in many threads.

[SteveShannon]

49 minutes ago, WSKK363 said:

That is a false equivalence. Repeaters in GMRS are more communal than private. If you want a truely private radio experience then GMRS is not for you. 

If you were talking about ham radio I would agree that repeaters are used for communal purposes. Nothing in the regulations support that concept for GMRS. In fact the duties of the repeater owner as established in regulations include access control as listed below:

Individual licensee duties. The holder of an individual license:

(1) Shall determine specifically which individuals, including family members, are allowed to operate (i.e., exercise operational control over) its GMRS station(s) (see paragraph (c) of this section);

(2) May allow any person to use (i.e., benefit from the operation of) its GMRS repeater, or alternatively, may limit the use of its GMRS repeater to specific persons;

(3) May disallow the use of its GMRS repeater by specific persons as may be necessary to carry out its responsibilities under this section.

[KBSherwood]

2 minutes ago, WRXL702 said:

 

The FCC was given authority to create rules & regulations by the Communications Act of 1934, adopted by Congress & signed into law by FDR. 

Current updated versions available for a new era of communications, but still fact - not theory.....

 

 

I was making a joke about their appetite for “enforcement” not their statutory authority…

[WRUE951]

7 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

Man, I can tell none of you have ever had to deal with this from the repeater owner's prospective.  I have.... I submitted so many complaints that I lost track, with evidence, about a specific person causing harmful interference for almost a year.  Almost all of my complaints went ignored (zero response) except for one.  The one response I got was that as the owner, it was my responsibility to manage who used my repeater.  So, they are off 99% of the time. And after several years, when this @$$H0l3 realizes my repeater is online, he starts jamming it again.  I can't leave it on for more than a day or two.  This isn't an "I think". "I heard", "the AI Overloads said so"... I lived it.

 

@OffRoaderX is the only other person I know that went through it, too... and he has told you his relatively similar experience several times in many threads.

Same here Marc..  We have been complaining about a local jammer for years and it's gotten zero attention from the FCC.  

[WSKK363]

17 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

Man, I can tell none of you have ever had to deal with this from the repeater owner's prospective.  I have.... I submitted so many complaints that I lost track, with evidence, about a specific person causing harmful interference for almost a year.  Almost all of my complaints went ignored (zero response) except for one.  The one response I got was that as the owner, it was my responsibility to manage who used my repeater.  So, they are off 99% of the time. And after several years, when this @$$H0l3 realizes my repeater is online, he starts jamming it again.  I can't leave it on for more than a day or two.  This isn't an "I think". "I heard", "the AI Overloads said so"... I lived it.

 

@OffRoaderX is the only other person I know that went through it, too... and he has told you his relatively similar experience several times in many threads.

This is my point to all of this. There is nothing that will stop anyone from using your repeater. Literally nothing will be done. No amount of quoting fcc will change this. I think I made it pretty clear to use repeaters maturely. But if people don't, again, the fcc will do nothing. 

[LeoG]

13 minutes ago, WRXL702 said:

 

The FCC was given authority to create rules & regulations by the Communications Act of 1934, adopted by Congress & signed into law by FDR. 

Current updated versions available for a new era of communications, but still fact - not theory.....

 

 

The Chevron deference doctrine was shot down by the SCOTUS saying it gave to much authority to agencies to be judge, jury and prosecutor and that effectively congress was shirking it's duty by allowing these agencies to have that power and to prosecute anything it came up with when in fact this was congress' job,

 

[PRadio]

On 12/7/2025 at 4:14 PM, marcspaz said:

 

 

Then... my favorite... I have heard people pull that crap before and it's not even their repeater.  And unless you know the owner, its hard to know who's who.

 

 

Yeah, I ran into this in Pittsburgh. I asked for, and received permission to use a repeater. The guy was really nice and helpful, even going as far as offering an old Motorola mobile radio for use in my car. I did not take him up on it, but that was over and above, and very nice. 

One evening during the after work drive time, I followed what was common on that repeater and, using my call sign, announced that I was listening. I immediately got an angry response from one who told me I had the wrong repeater and basically told me to go away. I had the right repeater, and he wasn't the owner. I decided to stay away from repeaters, permission or not. The idiocy of the users turned me off. 

[WSDE760]

OK, so I must be wrong.

I cannot find where it says "you may not use a repeater without permission" so apparently that must be inferred.  It is like how most hunting regulations are written, you may only take game species specifically allowed in the manner and time specifically allowed, all else is prohibited.

§ 95.1705 (d) (2) May allow any person to use (i.e., benefit from the operation of) its GMRS repeater, or alternatively, may limit the use of its GMRS repeater to specific persons; (3) May disallow the use of its GMRS repeater by specific persons as may be necessary to carry out its responsibilities under this section.

But what does "...as may be necessary to carry out its responsibilities under this section" mean?  

[marcspaz]

7 minutes ago, WSDE760 said:

But what does "...as may be necessary to carry out its responsibilities under this section" mean?  

 

They are referencing the licensee's responsibility to maintain their equipment and behavior in a manor compliant with the rules and regulations (which translates to compliant with overarching law).

[Northcutt114]

Out of curiosity more than anything, I googled the workforce at the FCC. 1,500 employees as of 9/24.

They don't have the manpower to enforce much of anything, I would imagine.

[WSDE760]

4 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

 

They are referencing the licensee's responsibility to maintain their equipment and behavior in a manor compliant with the rules and regulations (which translates to compliant with overarching law).

I thought that a licensee's responsibility under this section was ensuring that no one operating their station violates § 95.1733 Prohibited GMRS uses or § 95.333 Prohibited uses. 

Neither of these sections say one is prohibited from using a repeater without explicit permission.  I assumed as long as one complied with 95.1733 and 95.333 there was no necessity to be limited or disallowed.

I was mistaken.

[nokones]

3 hours ago, WRXL702 said:

 

 

The FCC’s rules and regulations are located in Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR).

The official rules are published and maintained by the Government Printing Office (GPO) in the Federal Register. Additional information about the Federal Register is available at the National Archives and Records Administration web site.

An online version of the FCC Rules is available at the GPO e-CFR website. The e-CFR is authorized and maintained by the National Archives and Records Administration's (NARA) Office of the Federal Register (OFR) and GPO.

And if any rule/regulation needs to be enforced, you can be sure that the Communications Act and The United States Code will come into play and be cited in addition to CFR Title 47 and its Chapters and Parts.