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Repeater Access


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#1 pantherpaw9

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 10:43 AM

I recently joined myGMRS originally requesting access for the Sassafras Mountain repeater with a family plan for 5 users.  While I continue to access the repeater network over the Sassafras Mountain repeater from Dahlonega where I live, two of the family members live in Sandy Springs, Geogia.  These family members have expressed interest in getting radios and using the network.  My question is, since they would have to access the network through the "4SEASONS" Sandy Springs, GA repeater, would I have to get separate permission for them to use that repeater, or are all the repeaters in the network covered under my original family membership obtained on Sassafras Mountain repeater?  Please advise, thanks...over...


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#2 GaDalek

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 04:46 PM

Hi Pantherpaw9,

 

The 4Seasons repeater is not part of the North Georgia GMRS network so they would not be able to talk to you on the Sassafras Repeater.   If they can reach the Pine Log repeater from their location, you would be able to talk to each other since the repeaters are linked.  They may be able to reach Sassafras from there.  I can not say for certain, but I think I am able to reach Pine Log from I285 and Roswell road.  With out being in the area I can not remember, getting too old.   Looking at the NG GMRS membership list it appears that you also got the Zello link and they could use that with their smart phones.


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#3 pantherpaw9

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 05:26 PM

Hi Pantherpaw9,

The 4Seasons repeater is not part of the North Georgia GMRS network so they would not be able to talk to you on the Sassafras Repeater. If they can reach the Pine Log repeater from their location, you would be able to talk to each other since the repeaters are linked. They may be able to reach Sassafras from there. I can not say for certain, but I think I am able to reach Pine Log from I285 and Roswell road. With out being in the area I can not remember, getting too old. Looking at the NG GMRS membership list it appears that you also got the Zello link and they could use that with their smart phones.


That's a long distance, are people actually reaching these repeaters from those long distances on approved 4 watt handheld radios. From what I gather so far from my experiences in reading the forums, it seems that everyone is having no problem roaming around with 4 watt radios and reaching these repeaters. It baffles me that a radio that has 4 watts of power apparantly can reach these repeaters from great distances but cant reach another handheld 4 watt twin radio 2 miles away. How is this possible?

Anyhoos, that is another topic altogether, but thank you for the information about the 4 seasons being off network. That does answer my question.

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#4 GaDalek

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 06:05 PM

Not getting too technical, mainly because I don't know all the facts, the reason you can reach the repeaters is because on their height. The line of site is better and the terrain is not as much of a factor like it is going from radio to radio. If you could have both 4w radios as high as the repeater you could talk a great distance.

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#5 GaDalek

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 06:08 PM

I think I am going to be on 285 tomorrow and will see what repeater can hit with my ht

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#6 pantherpaw9

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 06:23 PM

I think I am going to be on 285 tomorrow and will see what repeater can hit with my ht

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Thanks again, and that sounds like it would be a great test.  Let me know how it goes.


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#7 pantherpaw9

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 09:45 PM

Well I was able to reach Sassafras repeater to talk with a gentleman in Cleveland GA today on the 4 watt TERA TR-505 and I was in Gainesville so I was about 30 miles from Sassafras and 10 or 15 miles from Cleveland. I think the problem is exactly like you explained, I’m losing contact with the repeater when the 4 watt handheld is in areas without line if sight. That explains why the radio works sometimes and does not work sometimes. I also have to keep in mind that since the Sassafras repeater is not linked at the moment there are simply fewer people listening.

Anyways, my son is coming up tomorrow and he’s going to help me run some Simplex testing around the local Dahlonega area, so that should be even more educational.
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#8 RCM

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 10:04 PM

Part of the fun of radio! :)



#9 pantherpaw9

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 01:02 PM

Part of the fun of radio! :)

 

Yes all my friends and family are baffled as to why I have added radio as a new hobby at 50 years old.  I am absolutely hooked!  Fun is what it's all about.  I can't wait to get my HAM technicians license in January so I can join up with my local SOTA group and go up on the mountains and learn all about mountain top activations.  I'd better start studying for my General class so I can get in on all the HF action.


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#10 RCM

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 02:27 PM

Definitely try to be ready to take the General in your first test session. If you don't pass it, no biggie. There will always be next time.

You're in for a whole world of fun with your ham license, even if it's just Tech to start with.


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#11 GaDalek

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 05:17 PM

Thanks again, and that sounds like it would be a great test.  Let me know how it goes.

HI Pantherpaw9,

I was not able to try and reach a repeater from 285,  After I left home I found out my radio's battery was dead.  Oh well,  I will try again later.


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#12 NavyBOFH

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 12:53 PM

That's a long distance, are people actually reaching these repeaters from those long distances on approved 4 watt handheld radios. From what I gather so far from my experiences in reading the forums, it seems that everyone is having no problem roaming around with 4 watt radios and reaching these repeaters. It baffles me that a radio that has 4 watts of power apparantly can reach these repeaters from great distances but cant reach another handheld 4 watt twin radio 2 miles away. How is this possible?

Anyhoos, that is another topic altogether, but thank you for the information about the 4 seasons being off network. That does answer my question.

 

There's also the possibility they're running a STRONG receive system...

 

I am running a VHF commercial repeater that can be reached (reliably) in a 50 mile radius from a mobile - and about 20 with a portable. But we will put in a "voting receiver system" hopefully in 2019 to give the repeater many "ears" to listen on - and a comparator to pick the strongest signal to repeat.

 

AFAIK - GMRS has no restrictions on using a voting receiver system - and we are considering it for our GMRS repeater as well.



#13 WRAF213

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 06:29 PM

Actually, it does.

95.1733(a)(8) prohibits transmission of a signal that has been sent by a wireline control link (the voting receiver's connection to a remote transmitter) and a GMRS station (the user talking on the input channel). I suppose this rule exists to prevent GMRS networks from existing, to ensure users are operating within the general vicinity of the repeater station.

Adding amplification and filtering to the receive chain is perfectly fine, as long as the receiver is receiving on the paired input channel. Between both restrictions, there should be exactly one transmit path for each receive path.

#14 kb2ztx

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 06:16 PM

As you quoted a rule "wireline". My understanding is that is TELCO line to a transmit site. I know many GMRS systems that use Microwave on a voted system.


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#15 berkinet

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Posted 16 December 2018 - 10:17 PM

95.1733(a)(8) prohibits transmission of a signal that has been sent by a wireline control link ...

 

I believe the term "wireline" here refers to use of the PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network) to control a station or interface to a station (voice in the case of GMRS).  The typical use case of a wireline interface was to provide a phone patch.

 

You have to go back in time to understand the use of the term "wireline carrier." It was initially used to differentiate from other forms of communication, such as RCCs - Radio Communication Carriers and later differentiated between the legacy wireline carriers and their (at the time new) wireless (I.e. cellular) offshoots.

 

 I do not think the quoted Part 95 paragraph was intended to, or does, prohibit interconnection of repeaters or repeaters and receivers by use of dedicated circuits be they from the phone company, competing local exchange carriers (CLECS) or even Internet.


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#16 RCM

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Posted 17 December 2018 - 10:02 AM

I believe the term "wireline" here refers to use of the PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network) to control a station or interface to a station (voice in the case of GMRS).  The typical use case of a wireline interface was to provide a phone patch.

 

You have to go back in time to understand the use of the term "wireline carrier." It was initially used to differentiate from other forms of communication, such as RCCs - Radio Communication Carriers and later differentiated between the legacy wireline carriers and their (at the time new) wireless (I.e. cellular) offshoots.

 

 I do not think the quoted Part 95 paragraph was intended to, or does, prohibit interconnection of repeaters or repeaters and receivers by use of dedicated circuits be they from the phone company, competing local exchange carriers (CLECS) or even Internet.

I agree. I think the point of that rule is to prohibit phone patches, not limit the coverage area of a repeater system.



#17 n4gix

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Posted 17 December 2018 - 03:14 PM

There are also several rather large systems using Zello to link repeaters, as well as providing access to licensed GMRS operators from their smart phone or a hardware Zello device.
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