Using UV-82C for Part 95E

[RickW]

A number of forum members have mentioned that they use Part 90 certified equipment for Part 95.

 

Is my understanding correct that the Baofeng UV-82C is Part 90 certified?

 

If that is the case, what is the view of programming this radio for legal Part 95E GMRS operation?

 

Do those of you who program Part 90 equipment for use on Part 95, also use the same equipment for Part 97 and any other Part 95 frequencies, such as Part 95J MURS? 

 

The only recent radio for both GMRS and MURS seems to be the TERA 505, but is it legal to have both programmed at the same time?

[coryb27]

Rick,

 

Don't expect to many people to admit to breaking the law on an internet forum. Here is my thoughts, the Baofeng and its many knock offs are junk. The radios sound like crap, cause adjacent channel interference and preform poorly in the real world. Now I know all the Baofeng fans will come in out in full force to defend this junk and I will never know why. Even the beloved Btec GMRSV1 fails to maintain its frequency stability if you TX long enough to exceed the 5% duty cycle. You get what you pay for with radio gear, if you buy a 20 dollar radio its going to work like a 20 dollar radio. I have several users on my repeaters that use them and to be honest I plan to start revoking permission because of the poor audio and signal quality.

 

Corey

[marcspaz]

I owned 2 Baofeng ham radios for a combined total of 2 weeks. I wouldn't give one to someone I don't like, because its too cruel.

 

Do yourself a favor and forget they exist.

 

Just my opinion.

[Elkhunter521]

Corey, yur just mean.

 

Some of the Chinese junk is good junk, and some of it is bad junk.

 

Hmmm, I have some of the good junk and some of the bad (American labeled , you know who I mean) junk.

 

Yup, yur just mean.

 

Thank you for being honest and politically incorrect. !!,

 

Keith T

[Downs]

Ignore the Baofeng hate.  Instead of trying to get the 82C to do what you want legally you can always get the BTECH GMRSV1 (a UV82 certified for GMRS use) and do what you are seeking. 

 

[offtopic]Some folks have large amounts of money to dump into their hobbies others do not.  I have to balance a limited income across multiple things I like to do including Jeeps, Shooting competitively, radios, motorcycles, ect and without the Baofengs on the market I probably wouldn't even be in the radio hobby because there's no way I was going to dump 150 dollars into a handheld radio to come to find out it didn't do what I wanted to do with radio spectrum, or be something I would enjoy to mess with.  My initial UV-5R got my foot in the door to take the test and that one radio turned into a pile of radios including some Japanese radios that I don't even use regularly anymore and now live on my workbench[/offtopic]

[marcspaz]

I have to disagree that BTech is some kind of saving grace.

 

First... I have purchased several BTech / Baofeng radios and all failed within weeks. The extra time and money spent trying to get them to work was ridiculous.

 

Second, Motorola, Midland, and several other companies are selling much better quality radios for literally the same price as the BTechs.

 

Last... and this is just my opinion... if a one-time investment of an $150 vs. $60 is a deal-breaker on a hobby (and again, you don't have to spend $150)... I think you have bigger things to consider in life than which radio you're wanting to buy.

[Downs]

More like 24 vs 150. While that may not be a big deal for you to drop 150 dollars to test out a new hobby others may not be in the same financial position.

 

I must have the best luck ever when it comes to cheap radios then. Ive got a pile of their HTs and a couple of their mobiles. No radio failures. I have had 2 batteries fail out of probably 15 or so batteries.

 

One of my original UV5Rs has been riding around on my motorcycle handlebars for about 5 years now, exposed to off highway use, vibrations, rain, sun, ice, its been completely ejected a few times taking spills on dirt roads at 30 or 40 mph after being a little airborne on the bike. Looks awful with faded buttons and rusted wrist strap attachment and screws but still functions and gets good audio reports.

 

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[coryb27]

One visit from a FCC field officer and your $24 dollar radio may end up costing you $2400... 

[Downs]

One visit from a FCC field officer and your $24 dollar radio may end up costing you $2400...

For using it for amatuer use? Yeah sure. Im not advocating freebanding here. The GMRS btech will run you 55 dollars.

 

When the FCC starts to care about other things let me know. If they truly cared they could roll out to the california desert and write enough citations to fund the FCC for a year, in one day.

 

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[RickW]

As I mentioned in my OP, I am only asking about LEGAL use of Part 90 equipment. I have several of the B-Tech GMRS V1 transceivers and they seem surprisingly well made. I don't have a service monitor to fully test them but just listening to the transmissions on our ICOM IC-7000's and the MXT400's, the audio quality seems about the same as any other FM transceivers that I have tested. In fact, both wide and narrow FM seem reasonable to my ears.

 

Consider that back in the 1990's I think that we spent $330 EACH for Kenwood  TH27A 2 meter only ham transceivers. I shudder to think how much that would be in inflation adjusted dollars but you sure get a lot more for your money these days. It helped to have a wife who is also a ham and needed an HT for being an active bicyclist who frequently was on the local state trails. More than one accident/emergency situation occurred over the years before cell phones. 

 

There does seem to be somewhat conflicting statements about the use of Part 90 equipment for Part 95, but it does appear that the FCC says this is a violation of the rules at this time. It sure would have been great if the rules allowed MURS and FRS to be on the same licensed by rule equipment. I am sure that if this was possible, BTech would have done this rather than have two separate radios based off the UV-82 series. 

 

I wonder if the BTech GMRS V1 and MURS V1 radios are improved from earlier ones? They did drop the power level to only 2 watts on the GMRS model so perhaps they no longer exhibit loss of frequency stability? 

 

As far as audio quality though, the ones I have seem quite good. At least so far.

[marcspaz]

If you have two radios, you can do some informal testing. Get far enough away that you are 2x5 to 3x5, high power, wide-band, and talk for a little while. 20 minutes or so. Try to keep about 50% duty cycle. As long as no one changes location/position, you will be able to hear frequency shift if its bad. You will start to hear some distortion and the signal strength will weaken. Word clipping is more noticeable than the signal strength.

 

Two of my mobile ham radios shifted permanently and became unusable. The first one after 4 days. The second in less than 4 hours. Both of my handhelds worked great for about a month, and then they would drift after 10-15 minutes, but would recenter after being off for 20-30 minutes.

[coryb27]

For using it for amatuer use?

 

I was mistaken, I thought you mentioned using the $24 dollar radio on GMRS.

 

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-18-980A1.pdf

[WRCY896]

If you have two radios, you can do some informal testing. Get far enough away that you are 2x5 to 3x5, high power, wide-band, and talk for a little while. 20 minutes or so. Try to keep about 50% duty cycle. As long as no one changes location/position, you will be able to hear frequency shift if its bad. You will start to hear some distortion and the signal strength will weaken. Word clipping is more noticeable than the signal strength.

Two of my mobile ham radios shifted permanently and became unusable. The first one after 4 days. The second in less than 4 hours. Both of my handhelds worked great for about a month, and then they would drift after 10-15 minutes, but would recenter after being off for 20-30 minutes.

Using a radio beyond it's stated duty cycle, and expecting it to maintain tolerance, then saying it's a junk radio, because the user used the radio beyond what it was designed to be used for, is not a valid argument.

 

I do my best not to exceed the duty cycle on my radios, and certainly don't hit 50%. I know what the limitations are for those radios, and as long as I stay inside those limitations, then they work just fine.

 

As far as part 90 radios - there are several, such as the Kenwood tk880, that is 90/95 certified.

[marcspaz]

Using a radio beyond it's stated duty cycle, and expecting it to maintain tolerance, then saying it's a junk radio, because the user used the radio beyond what it was designed to be used for, is not a valid argument.

 

I'm sorry... where did I say that?  I must be missing something.  Can you show me where I wrote that?

[WRCY896]

I'm sorry... where did I say that? I must be missing something. Can you show me where I wrote that?

In your statement that I quoted just above this post. You are telling someone to run a radio to 50% duty cycle, that is only rated and certified for 5%. And then you are using that argument to say that the radio is junk because it falls out of compliance when pushed beyond it's design limitations. And you have stated they are junk, that they have failed you, etc, and then made it clear you pushed them beyond what they are designed for.

 

Anything that is pushed beyond it's design limitations is going to fail at some point.

[marcspaz]

In your statement that I quoted just above this post. You are telling someone to run a radio to 50% duty cycle, that is only rated and certified for 5%. And then you are using that argument to say that the radio is junk because it falls out of compliance when pushed beyond it's design limitations. And you have stated they are junk, that they have failed you, etc, and then made it clear you pushed them beyond what they are designed for.

 

Anything that is pushed beyond it's design limitations is going to fail at some point.

 

You are obviously making an assumption based on a collection of multiple posts I have made... and your assumption is wrong.

 

Actually, the radio in question is rated for a 10% duty cycle; 6 minutes transmit, 54 minutes receive.  And I mentioned using the radio in extreme use conditions as a cheap/easy means of detecting if the radio will stay within its maximum deviation.  If they can have a 20 minute conversation and not hear any deviation, the radios are performing very well.  If they don't get the full 6 minutes of transmit before hearing a deviation, then there is a problem.

 

I said that BTechs are junk because I have owned several mobile radios that failed within days/hours of ownership.  I never mentioned the models, how I used them or what their duty cycle is rated for.

 

Just to be sure there is no confusion....

 

I had two UV-50x2's which are rated for 100% duty cycle to build poor man repeaters (also has all remote control features built into it for remote management).  I was only using them as mobile ham radios with light-duty use.  They both broke extremely quickly while used, literally, for initial testing and configuration.  Both radios had less than 20 minutes of total transmit time.

 

The reason I think the handhelds are junk is because they are built with cheap plastic that has basically zero impact resistance.  Also the transmit audio quality is terrible.  For the same price as the BTech, I can buy something like an iCom or another mainstream, amazing performer that is also durable.  The fact that the BTech units drifted a bit after the duty cycle was exceeded was never a consideration in my opinion of the handhelds.

 

If you had good luck... God bless you.  I haven't.  I think after using radio's for work, recreation, and working in Electronics and IT for 27+ years, I'm pretty well experienced enough to develop a opinion on what is junk.  You are welcome to disagree and have your own opinions based on your experiences, but please don't put words in my mouth.

[Downs]

I was mistaken, I thought you mentioned using the $24 dollar radio on GMRS.

 

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-18-980A1.pdf

Thats my bad for not clarifying since this is a.thread about GMRS operation

 

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[gman1971]

I am late to this one, but as someone who started with a couple of Baofengs I have to admit that you really get what you pay for.

It is very hard to understand for the first time buyer why these radios are a waste of money, and only after you try to start using those for anything that requires reliability and range the expectations go south, quick. Most of those inexpensive radios have two major problems/deficiencies that most beginners don't understand, and that is even before getting into the legality aspects of those, which have been shuffled already.

So, those cheap overseas radios use direct conversion receivers with very poor (if any) filtering on the front end, because adding those costs a lot of $$$. And those two flaws alone means you should look elsewhere, regardless of anything else, no matter what bells and whistles, etc. Which BTW, that is a very common, and smart, strategy used by the cheap overseas manufacturers, they give you a garbage radio sugar coated real good with all kinds of fancy color screens, 150000 DMR contacts, etc... but in the end the radio lacks where it matters the most, in the RF performance.

So, what does this receiver mumbo-jumbo mean? Very simple:
-Poor receiver selectivity.
-Even worse receiver sensitivity.

Good lord, what is all that? Well, selectivity is usually the reason why the range on your brand new 20 dollar Baofeng is measured in feet, rather than in miles... and why, you might ask, why? Well, b/c when the radio has little selectivity the receiver hears everything around it, as in, it will hear all the stations that are pumping hundreds of watts at 10 Mhz, 20, 30, or even 300 Mhz apart from the frequency you're tuned in. So, what happens when you are standing front row at a concert and your friend tries to talk to you? You try closing your ears to reduce all that noise blasting in an attempt to hear your friend.... well, the same things happens to these cheap radios, the receivers desense so they are not overloaded, as in, receiver sensitivity goes south, and while the receiver might've had an amazing sensitivity figure advertised (which makes the problem even worse) that means diddly squat when the RF environment gets crowded, even operating near other portables, or mobiles, your cheap radio will hear static where it should've heard a signal loud and clear.

When you buy higher end commercial radios from companies like Motorola, Vertex, etc, you will certainly have less bells and whistles, but the radio will have stellar RF performance so range is measured in tens of miles rather than hundredths of an inch.

And that is not going into other details, like spurious emissions, b/c those are terrible too. I can hear those cheap Baofengs on adjacent GMRS channels even 200 feet away... heard about it, tested it, verified it and moved on.

So, before giving your hard earned money to some foreign company that is just collecting on unsuspecting buyers, dazzled by color screens and fancy boot screens, just look at used commercial gear from Motorola, Vertex, Midland, Ritron, etc... and if you plan on using it for GMRS just buy accordingly with the legal requirements.

Here is a video where this desense effect is shown, basically the radio stop receiving altogether...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUQsZrd3IGo

 

And this is far more common than you think nowadays, with tons of cellphones, WiFis, computers, Bluetooth devices... there are tons of RF noise nowadays that will render these 20 dollar radios useless where you might need them the most.

Hope this helps.

G.

[RCM]

 Disregard

[WREB270]

Lol on the amateur sude I have been through 5 UV-50x2 this year, thank God for Amazon's return policy, just trying to get one unit that worked. The worst one lasted less than 45 seconds. None of them output the stated power, the first thing I do is slap a meter on them to check. One did the stated power rating but frequency shifted in the first day, most hung out around 20watts on a 50 watt rated radio that's way outside a margin of error, and one actually output 9 watts then went to 0 (the one that died in about a minute of use). Also went through a couple of the UV-82HPs that are supposed to be 8watts. Those are actually relabeled UV-6R radios and have a max output of 6 watts.

 

BTech just doesn't expect most people dumping cash on these radios to check their equipment. They don't need to, get 700 people to leave a 5 star review on Amazon like... "Works Good" or some bogus claim on range and your set 500 more people will see that and drop the cash.

 

I actually bought one of their amps too, the first two were junk, 3rd was spot on.

 

Why so much, I wanted to give Baofeng a good college try, I figured maybe I had a dud and wanted to put that theory to the test, nope just false advertising and shoddy equipment. It didn't cost me a dime, just time and when I decide to go GMRS for the family instead of stacking HAM licenses I went right to the Midland radio and when I outfit the next vehicle it will be a Midland, icom, kenwood, or Motorola.

 

The saying you can't afford to go cheap is true, imagine dumping $200 on a Baofeng mobile radio for it to fail just outside the warranty window or even outside the 30 day return window. Btech is notorious for having poor customer service when it comes to repair/replacement of their equipment. I have read stories where people pay shipping shipping costs only to get another raido that junks out and having to pay shipping costs again.

 

You can get a 40watt Midland GMRS mobile for $230 and it will work and it will put out around 40 watts, the Baofeng GMRS is $200 and is almost guarantee never to put out anywhere near 50watts and probably will fail you sooner than later.

 

I'm not bashing Baofeng because I'm on a soap box running thousands in radio equipment, but because I am an owner and have mostly poor experience using them.

[gortex2]

Not to drag this topic further into further CCR bashing there is one important item to consider. The desire to get into radio is something many dont do any more nor have any interest. So the good thing is some people still want to. The issue with the Baofeng or any CCR is the performance as many he mentioned. The performance can impact the users "taste" of the hobby and many times they loose interest cause it doesn't do what it should. I have had this happen in the SAR world and also Amateur world on top of my GMRS repeaters. 90% of the folks that buy those complain they can't hit the repeater or are so broken up and unreadable more folks tell them its junk. This causes them to loose interest and leave the radio world. 

 

For me I started grabbing cheap good radios when i have extra cash and leave them sitting. When i get a person who wants to use a baofeng I hand them one of these and let them use it side by side. Normally 2 days later I get "hey can i buy this from you". There is alot of good radios out there dirt cheap that works well for GMRS. I recently picked up 6 HT1000 portables for $50.00. Threw some $20.00 batteries on them and programmed up for GMRS. I have one left in the box. 

 

If your truly interested in radio get a reputable radio or your expectations will not be met.

 

JMHO

[WREB270]

Not to drag this topic further into further CCR bashing there is one important item to consider. The desire to get into radio is something many dont do any more nor have any interest. So the good thing is some people still want to. The issue with the Baofeng or any CCR is the performance as many he mentioned. The performance can impact the users "taste" of the hobby and many times they loose interest cause it doesn't do what it should. I have had this happen in the SAR world and also Amateur world on top of my GMRS repeaters. 90% of the folks that buy those complain they can't hit the repeater or are so broken up and unreadable more folks tell them its junk. This causes them to loose interest and leave the radio world.

 

For me I started grabbing cheap good radios when i have extra cash and leave them sitting. When i get a person who wants to use a baofeng I hand them one of these and let them use it side by side. Normally 2 days later I get "hey can i buy this from you". There is alot of good radios out there dirt cheap that works well for GMRS. I recently picked up 6 HT1000 portables for $50.00. Threw some $20.00 batteries on them and programmed up for GMRS. I have one left in the box.

 

If your truly interested in radio get a reputable radio or your expectations will not be met.

 

JMHO

De ja vu... This is an excellent point. I first got bit by the radio bug when I was a kid in the 90's. No cell phones radio was the cool thing. 2007 I started getting FCC licenses starting with my GROL. Fell out of the hobby and started up again 10 years later. When I started up I had a friend start up with some cheap Chinese mobiles from Amazon. I bought a couple Baofeng handhelds that I didn't have much issue with. He ended up dropping out due to not getting what he wanted out of the underperforming radio just like you said. We have an excellent HAM community here but I'm not much into talking to complete strangers, I wanted to communicate with friends and family. So I dropped out of radio again until this year when I decided to give GMRS a shot because one station license could be shared by my household.

[Downs]

Lol on the amateur sude I have been through 5 UV-50x2 this year, thank God for Amazon's return policy, just trying to get one unit that worked. The worst one lasted less than 45 seconds. None of them output the stated power, the first thing I do is slap a meter on them to check. One did the stated power rating but frequency shifted in the first day, most hung out around 20watts on a 50 watt rated radio that's way outside a margin of error, and one actually output 9 watts then went to 0 (the one that died in about a minute of use). Also went through a couple of the UV-82HPs that are supposed to be 8watts. Those are actually relabeled UV-6R radios and have a max output of 6 watts.

 

BTech just doesn't expect most people dumping cash on these radios to check their equipment. They don't need to, get 700 people to leave a 5 star review on Amazon like... "Works Good" or some bogus claim on range and your set 500 more people will see that and drop the cash.

 

I actually bought one of their amps too, the first two were junk, 3rd was spot on.

 

Why so much, I wanted to give Baofeng a good college try, I figured maybe I had a dud and wanted to put that theory to the test, nope just false advertising and shoddy equipment. It didn't cost me a dime, just time and when I decide to go GMRS for the family instead of stacking HAM licenses I went right to the Midland radio and when I outfit the next vehicle it will be a Midland, icom, kenwood, or Motorola.

 

The saying you can't afford to go cheap is true, imagine dumping $200 on a Baofeng mobile radio for it to fail just outside the warranty window or even outside the 30 day return window. Btech is notorious for having poor customer service when it comes to repair/replacement of their equipment. I have read stories where people pay shipping shipping costs only to get another raido that junks out and having to pay shipping costs again.

 

You can get a 40watt Midland GMRS mobile for $230 and it will work and it will put out around 40 watts, the Baofeng GMRS is $200 and is almost guarantee never to put out anywhere near 50watts and probably will fail you sooner than later.

 

I'm not bashing Baofeng because I'm on a soap box running thousands in radio equipment, but because I am an owner and have mostly poor experience using them.

You must have the worst electronic luck imaginable. Ive got a pile of UV5Rs, BF888s, a few UV82HPs, a BFF8HP, Wouxoun KGUV8D and a UV50X2.

 

Ive had all of them on a meter. All put out advertised power levels. The UV50X2 actually does 70 watts on VHF in some parts of the band. This radio is a year and a half old now.

 

Ive got a 8ish year old UV5R that's my motorcycle mobile radio thats been mounted on my bars since new and its survived all that time exposed to vibrations, UV, rain, cold, heat. Being ejected a few times off pavement at 40mph, ect

 

Now i cant speak for how clean their signal is as i dont have the equipment to check that but for my uses theyve been quite satisfactory.

 

Issues ive had with them

 

The UV50X2 has a wonky channel knob.

 

1 of my 888s wont talk to chirp anymore

 

KGUV8D consumes batteries even when its switched off.

 

 

All this being said I switched a surplus Motorola PM400 (UHF) into my Jeep and am enjoying it quite a bit. Nice and simple. I know its rugged. Its pretty compact and the audio quality out and in is awesome. I lost being able to do a VFO mode and dual band of the UV50X2 but I rarely use VHF anymore so no huge deal.

 

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[gman1971]

This, a-men.

 

 

 

If your truly interested in radio get a reputable radio or your expectations will not be met.

 

JMHO

[gman1971]

Which proves the point, that those things are a hit or miss, b/c the QC is just not there. Again, I started with those and I have a dozen or so of these BF-888S at home set as intercom.

 

The point I am trying to make here is to be VERY AWARE of what you're getting, understand its limitations and make an educated purchase. 

 

G.

 

 

You must have the worst electronic luck imaginable. Ive got a pile of UV5Rs, BF888s, a few UV82HPs, a BFF8HP, Wouxoun KGUV8D and a UV50X2.

Ive had all of them on a meter. All put out advertised power levels. The UV50X2 actually does 70 watts on VHF in some parts of the band. This radio is a year and a half old now.

Ive got a 8ish year old UV5R that's my motorcycle mobile radio thats been mounted on my bars since new and its survived all that time exposed to vibrations, UV, rain, cold, heat. Being ejected a few times off pavement at 40mph, ect

Now i cant speak for how clean their signal is as i dont have the equipment to check that but for my uses theyve been quite satisfactory.

Issues ive had with them

The UV50X2 has a wonky channel knob.

1 of my 888s wont talk to chirp anymore

KGUV8D consumes batteries even when its switched off.


All this being said I switched a surplus Motorola PM400 (UHF) into my Jeep and am enjoying it quite a bit. Nice and simple. I know its rugged. Its pretty compact and the audio quality out and in is awesome. I lost being able to do a VFO mode and dual band of the UV50X2 but I rarely use VHF anymore so no huge deal.

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