Do you talk to the --- unlicensed?

[chiefeis]

For clarification - Bubble pack radios *can* be used on shared frequencies without a license, provided they don't exceed .5W.  Even the little Talkabouts I first bought for use around the farm had that option.

 

ref: https://www.fcc.gov/general/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs

[jwilkers]

For clarification - Bubble pack radios *can* be used on shared frequencies without a license, provided they don't exceed .5W. Even the little Talkabouts I first bought for use around the farm had that option.

 

ref: https://www.fcc.gov/general/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs

FRS is narrow band. Those bubblepacks transmit in 25kHz. wideband, which violates FRS regulations that require 12.5 kHz.

 

AntiSquid disclaimer: All information provided is personal opinion only and may or may not resemble actual fact.

[jwilkers]

About 2:00 AM one morning I over heard two guys planning a break in several miles away using their bubble pack radios. I started answering their transmissions, which produced stunned silence, followed by the statement "Go to the secret channel". I turned on the scanner and found the "secret" channel in about 10 seconds. I then pretended to be a hidden observer who would "keep them in sight" until the police arrived. Panic ensued and the nefarious activities were abandoned for the evening.

I would have called police and directed them to the criminal activity, rather than thwarted their efforts. Now They will continue their activity elsewhere. Plus, it may have been more fun to hear their reaction when the cops came, and then taunt them

[WQYC236]

I would have called police and directed them to the criminal activity, rather than thwarted their efforts. Now They will continue their activity elsewhere. Plus, it may have been more fun to hear their reaction when the cops came, and then taunt them

 

AntiSquid disclaimer: All information provided is personal opinion only and may or may not resemble actual fact

 

That's a great idea but I was receiving their transmissions from the side of a mountain facing West (about 1600 ft elevation). I knew what they were planning but never heard a land mark or name of the place.

[chiefeis]

FRS is narrow band. Those bubblepacks transmit in 25kHz. wideband, which violates FRS regulations that require 12.5 kHz.

 

AntiSquid disclaimer: All information provided is personal opinion only and may or may not resemble actual fact.

 

 

Well huh.  Guess someone needs to the the FCC that all those radios that the FCC has certified for 95A and 95B are out of compliance with FCC rules for 95A and 95B.

 

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[n4gix]

FRS is narrow band. Those bubblepacks transmit in 25kHz. wideband, which violates FRS regulations that require 12.5 kHz.

That's not entirely accurate. Those FRS frequencies shared with GMRS are 25kHz wideband.

[SteveC7010]

That's not entirely accurate. Those FRS frequencies shared with GMRS are 25kHz wideband.

 

The FCC is contradictory on this.

 

On their info page for FRS all FRS frequencies are narrowband 12.5 KHz.https://www.fcc.gov/general/family-radio-service-frs

 

On their info page for GMRS, all frequencies, including the 7 interstitials are wideband 25 KHz. https://www.fcc.gov/general/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs

 

I skimmed Part 95, but it is so inconsistent that I could not find clear statements on this. Stuff is buried where you least expect to find it. I gave up looking. Someone far more AR than me might find it.

 

FWIW, I've always set up my gear with the shared channels at 12.5 and the GMRS exclusive channels at 25. It may not be the precise letter of the regulations, but I'm comfortable that it follows the spirit of the regs, and that it will cause the least interference possible in either service. This is also my advice to others and for these same reasons.

[jwilkers]

GMRS is wideband. FRS is not. If you operate wide on the shared frequencies, you are operating as a GMRS user. If you operate narrow, you are an FRS user. The radios would have both FRS and GMRS approval, because they can operate on both services. The rules aren't contradictory.. The frequencies don't determine if they are wide or narrow, the radio service you are using the frequencies for are what makes that determination.

 

I hope that clarifies.

 

AntiSquid disclaimer: All information provided is personal opinion only and may or may not resemble actual fact.

[chiefeis]

If you operate on the shared frequencies above .5W you are a GMRS user. If you operate at .5W with the integral antenna you are an FRS user. The FCC clearly states that on their website.

 

The bubble pack radios, therefore, are approved, authorized, allowed, etc on the shared channels.

[SteveC7010]

GMRS is wideband. FRS is not. If you operate wide on the shared frequencies, you are operating as a GMRS user. If you operate narrow, you are an FRS user. The radios would have both FRS and GMRS approval, because they can operate on both services. The rules aren't contradictory.. The frequencies don't determine if they are wide or narrow, the radio service you are using the frequencies for are what makes that determination.

 

I hope that clarifies.

 

AntiSquid disclaimer: All information provided is personal opinion only and may or may not resemble actual fact.

 

I didn't say that the absolute rules are contradictory. I said that their two information pages were. And I said I wasn't AR enough to spend time hunting part 95.

 

OK, but still doesn't affect your original claim in post #27 that the bubble pack radios are in violation because they are 25 KHz only. I'm pretty sure that the FCC grant for type acceptance shows 11k3 or 11k0 for FRS freqs and wider for GMS freqs. Not having any bubble packs, I don't have any FCC ID's at my fingertips to go look them up. Perhaps you do.

 

If the radios are properly type accepted (which I suspect they are), there's no way to prove your claim unless they are actually tested with a service monitor. Absent that evidence, I am of the opinion that the bubble pack radios do meet the emission standards for both radio services, otherwise, the FCC would not have allowed sales to continue over many years.

[jwilkers]

If you operate on the shared frequencies above .5W you are a GMRS user. If you operate at .5W with the integral antenna you are an FRS user. The FCC clearly states that on their website.

 

The bubble pack radios, therefore, are approved, authorized, allowed, etc on the shared channels.

Well, that too. I didn't want to get rambling.

 

AntiSquid disclaimer: All information provided is personal opinion only and may or may not resemble actual fact.

[jwilkers]

I didn't say that the absolute rules are contradictory. I said that their two information pages were. And I said I wasn't AR enough to spend time hunting part 95.

 

OK, but still doesn't affect your original claim in post #27 that the bubble pack radios are in violation because they are 25 KHz only. I'm pretty sure that the FCC grant for type acceptance shows 11k3 or 11k0 for FRS freqs and wider for GMS freqs. Not having any bubble packs, I don't have any FCC ID's at my fingertips to go look them up. Perhaps you do.

 

If the radios are properly type accepted (which I suspect they are), there's no way to prove your claim unless they are actually tested with a service monitor. Absent that evidence, I am of the opinion that the bubble pack radios do meet the emission standards for both radio services, otherwise, the FCC would not have allowed sales to continue over many years.

I'm not saying the radios are in violation. I'm saying the USERS are. If the shared channels are wide band, then the user must get a GMRS license..or stick to the 7 FRS only narrow channels.

 

AntiSquid disclaimer: All information provided is personal opinion only and may or may not resemble actual fact.

[chiefeis]

Note: for some reason this computer will not allow me to quote or copy/paste.

 

As I noted above, if the *user* is using a bubble pack radio that only allows .5W and a non-replaceable antenna then ALL FRS channels, including the interstitial channels, are available for use.

[jwilkers]

Note: for some reason this computer will not allow me to quote or copy/paste.

 

As I noted above, if the *user* is using a bubble pack radio that only allows .5W and a non-replaceable antenna then ALL FRS channels, including the interstitial channels, are available for use.

If all 14 channels operate with 12.5 kHz narrow spacing, per FRS regulations, then yes. If any of those frequencies are 25 kHz wide band, then no.

 

AntiSquid disclaimer: All information provided is personal opinion only and may or may not resemble actual fact.

[n4gix]

It is entirely possible for an FRS user @ 12.5kHz to communicate with a GMRS user @25kHz. The audio won't be great, but communications are still possible.

[chiefeis]

Ok, I got that FRS is narrowband and I think I see what you're getting at.  I'm not sure why the FCC approved the manuals (which is part of the approval package) without language stating that the interstitial channels also require a license. That's setting the users up for failure. 

[SteveC7010]

I'm not saying the radios are in violation. I'm saying the USERS are. If the shared channels are wide band, then the user must get a GMRS license..or stick to the 7 FRS only narrow channels.

 

On that, we are both in total agreement. However, if the user keeps the radio in low power FRS mode, there's no reason they can not use the lower 7 channels.

 

But then that begs the issue of radios being sold to the unknowing and uninformed who don't read the manual and if they did, they'd ignore the limitation anyway.

[jwilkers]

Whew... Sometimes it is so hard to explain via typing..... Glad you were able to bear with me thru my explanation. Yes...manuals are so terribly written.

 

AntiSquid disclaimer: All information provided is personal opinion only and may or may not resemble actual fact.

[Durake]

I've been waiting to do this for a while.. My Middle School was on GMRS so I explained licensing and all that, thankfully they cooperated by switching over to FRS, if not I probably would've gotten suspended for setting up a simplex repeater so they hear themselves repeated, but with what was going on back then and still these days with school shootings that probably wouldn't have been the smartest decision..

[jwilkers]

I reported a local school to the fcc. They got a notice of violation. Since then, times have changed and most districts in my area have a centralized system.

 

AntiSquid disclaimer: All information provided is personal opinion only and may or may not resemble actual fact.

[WQYC236]

I know this is never going to happen because of money and inconvenience, but if the manufactures offered GMRS only radios, and had the customer sign a briefing statement that they need a licence to operate the radio, maybe it would be a different world. I think most people just use the radios out of ignorance, not any real malice aforethought.

[SteveC7010]

I know this is never going to happen because of money and inconvenience, but if the manufactures offered GMRS only radios, and had the customer sign a briefing statement that they need a licence to operate the radio, maybe it would be a different world. I think most people just use the radios out of ignorance, not any real malice aforethought.

 

And that probably is why bubble pack radios are no where near the full wattage allowed, usually by a factor of half or greater.

[WQQL573]

In my area we had an issue with a major chain Hotel using 462.725 (one of our repeater pairs) for their business comms on commercial radios.   After we researched and verified that there was no possibility of them having an ancient license for Non-Individual on GMRS,  I politely contacted them on their frequency in an attempt to explain the situation.   The Manager got on the radio telling me she was going to "Call the Cops" because I was not allowed to use their "channel".    So I stopped at the hotel and again,  politely, attempted to show them the FCC regulations and offer them a solution when the manager freaked out and called the police.   Because I was on their property I simply left shaking my head.    Needless to say I made sure they got a letter from our northwest FCC Representative Binh Mtuyem out of the Portland, Oregon area. 

We've had a few other businesses pop up on GMRS and most are polite and will move to FRS once it's politely explained to them,  but there are still geniuses at gas stations and hotels that love to wander into GMRS then cuss and threaten anyone who tries to help them follow the law.   Oh well!  

On a trip through Sisters, Oregon we had a Hotel/Resort employee on a MURS frequency we were using for travel comms tell us they "Owned" this channel and we needed to immediately get off of "his" channel or he was going to call the "FBI".   That was a fun conversation!  LOL

 

[Unit61]

For clarification - Bubble pack radios *can* be used on shared frequencies without a license, provided they don't exceed .5W.  Even the little Talkabouts I first bought for use around the farm had that option.

 

ref: https://www.fcc.gov/general/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs

 

Incorrect Sir. This is taken right from the link you have provided: "(Note that some dual-service radios transmit with higher power on FRS channels 1 through 7; these radios can be used without a license only on FRS channels 8 through 14.)"

[Unit61]

If you operate on the shared frequencies above .5W you are a GMRS user. If you operate at .5W with the integral antenna you are an FRS user. The FCC clearly states that on their website.

 

The bubble pack radios, therefore, are approved, authorized, allowed, etc on the shared channels.

Only if you are a licensed GMRS operator as you can read below from the FCC website everyone is linking to on here:

 

(Note that some dual-service radios transmit with higher power on FRS channels 1 through 7; these radios can be used without a license only on FRS channels 8 through 14.)