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4-5w GMRS Certified Radio?


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#21 gman1971

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 09:14 AM

Radioshack? whut? 



#22 Guest_R James_*

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 06:14 AM

For what it's worth, I've sent two emails to Midland and have received radio silence (no pun intended).
And these follow up on a conversation I had with a sales associate.
It's been about three weeks and still no one has gotten back to me.
(I've made it clear that i'd like to make a sizeable purchase. A micromobile base station and a handheld or two. Plus some accessories.)

I know these are unusual times - but this has not left me with a great impression.

#23 Guest_R James_*

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Posted 19 May 2020 - 09:06 PM

For what it's worth, I've sent two emails to Midland and have received radio silence (no pun intended).
And these follow up on a conversation I had with a sales associate.
It's been about three weeks and still no one has gotten back to me.
(I've made it clear that i'd like to make a sizeable purchase. A micromobile base station and a handheld or two. Plus some accessories.)

I know these are unusual times - but this has not left me with a great impression.

Make that three emails ....

#24 Lscott

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Posted 20 May 2020 - 10:49 AM

Make that three emails ....

Makes you wonder how their customer service is like if you have a problem.



#25 berkinet

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Posted 20 May 2020 - 10:58 AM

For what it's worth, I've sent [three] emails to Midland and have received radio silence (no pun intended).
[... ...]
(I've made it clear that i'd like to make a sizeable purchase. A micromobile base station and a handheld or two. Plus some accessories.)

 

Unfortunately, most big companies are not motivated by such claims of interest. They are thinking about market share, not individual buyers. Also, they know that most such statements are hollow, and, in any case, have no way of being tracked.  Now, if you used a similar approach with a dealer, they might show more interest. And, in turn, the dealer might have more influence with the vendor.


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.

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#26 Guest_Dave_*

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 01:09 PM

New one to add to the list:

 

Wouxun KG-UV9G (8w)

Midland GXT1000 (5w)
Tera TR-505 (4w)
Garmin Rino 700 (5w)

Wouxun KG-805 (4w)

 

One more option for "out of the box" GMRS with more power.  Yay!



#27 n4gix

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Posted 06 August 2020 - 06:49 PM

A micromobile base station and a handheld or two.

 

That is not what I'd consider a sizable purchase. Now four base stations and 30 HT's might gain some interest... ;)


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#28 BoxCar

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 08:57 AM

Yes, a truckload would also get their attention.


Old and wise infers you were once young and stupid


#29 NV_Rocketeer

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 11:21 AM

 

New one to add to the list:

 

Wouxun KG-UV9G (8w)

Midland GXT1000 (5w)
Tera TR-505 (4w)
Garmin Rino 700 (5w)

Wouxun KG-805 (4w)

 

One more option for "out of the box" GMRS with more power.  Yay!

 

 

The most recent FCC report I saw on the Midland GXT1000 series was 2.65 W max, despite their advertising. A bit disappointing, that, but it's still plenty for my needs.



#30 PRadio

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 12:21 PM

The most recent FCC report I saw on the Midland GXT1000 series was 2.65 W max, despite their advertising. A bit disappointing, that, but it's still plenty for my needs.

 

I have the Midland GTX1000 and have found them to be a very nice little radio. I originally bought the Motorola MR350R, and found them to be very bad. They had very poor sound quality, and one of the handsets exhibited the low volume issue some of them had. We then bought the Midlands to test side by side, and the Midland outperformed the Motorola in every way, including range. The best part was we could actually hear each other on them. 

 

Later we bought the Tera 505 handhelds and generally use those. We still use the Midlands though, they work well, and are durable. I don't feel unduly worried about them when using them in bad conditions either. 

 

I wouldn't mind buying the Wouxuns though, since I believe they are not a "radio on chip" design, so they should receive better than radios with the radio on chip design.

 

 

 

#31 Lscott

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 04:04 PM

 

I wouldn't mind buying the Wouxuns though, since I believe they are not a "radio on chip" design, so they should receive better than radios with the radio on chip design.

 

If you can find the detailed specifications for the radio look at the receiver section. If the type is stated as “direct conversion” the odds are very high it’s a cheap “radio on a chip” type design.



#32 Guest_Dave_*

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 07:13 PM

Yeah, I read the Midlands are 5w at the battery source but not actual transmission.  Good marketing though.

 

The Wouxuns are Superheterodyne.  Yay!



#33 PRadio

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 12:46 PM

If you can find the detailed specifications for the radio look at the receiver section. If the type is stated as “direct conversion” the odds are very high it’s a cheap “radio on a chip” type design.

 

It seems that www.buytwowayradios.com claims it is not radio on chip. 

 

""Classic" Radio Circuitry. One of the big reasons that there are so many low priced radios available is that there single microchips available that control almost all radio features. This is great if you're looking to keep costs down, but there's a reason that popular business radio brands don't use them: they compromise quality for price. If we were going to call our radio "Business Quality" it needed to be built like a business radio - inside and out."

 

https://www.buytwowa...urs-radios.html



#34 Lscott

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 04:17 PM

It seems that www.buytwowayradios.com claims it is not radio on chip. 

 

""Classic" Radio Circuitry. One of the big reasons that there are so many low priced radios available is that there single microchips available that control almost all radio features. This is great if you're looking to keep costs down, but there's a reason that popular business radio brands don't use them: they compromise quality for price. If we were going to call our radio "Business Quality" it needed to be built like a business radio - inside and out."

 

https://www.buytwowa...urs-radios.html

That could be the case. You can see the FCC data on the radio at this site below:

 

https://fccid.io/WVTWOUXUN16

 

The FCC certification grant is there. More of interest you can find internal photos of the radio. After looking I didn’t see the typical radio-a-chip device, which seems to be the favorite used in the cheap Chinese radios, on the circuit boards. I didn’t try to look up the chip numbers so the manufacturer could still be using a different one, or a customized version.


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#35 Lscott

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 07:29 AM

For the more technically inclined people you can investigate a design by looking at either the schematic, in this case it's not available on the FCC website, or the internal photos, which is better than nothing. 

 

https://fccid.io/WVT...tos-4695706.pdf

 

Looking at the PCB photos you will notice a large white rectangular part with "C50F" stamped on it. I've seen these before. They are commonly used ceramic filters. In this case doing a bit of searching you will find a data sheet for it here.

 

http://www.quartz1.c...ic/LTWC450F.pdf

 

Take a look at page 4 of the datasheet figure 1. You will see the manufacture's marking looks like the one in the photos.

 

As suspected it's a simple 455KHz IF, intermediate frequency, ceramic filter typically used in a Superheterodyne receiver designs. This would not be something expected in a typical "radio-on-a-chip" design.

 

One thing to note in the spec sheet is the 50dB bandwidth spec of just 12KHz. Considering GMRS has a bandwidth of around 16KHz the filter is a bit narrow. However for narrow band, think FRS, the bandwidth is only 11 KHz it would be a bit too wide. I suspect the designers picked this part as a compromise where they tried to get away with using just one filter in place of the two that should have been used to save money. I think some of the commercial radio designs use two different filters for the two bandwidths. One reason why they tend to work better and cost more.

 

And right next to it is a chip "AA32416" which appears to be the FM detector chip which would make sense.

 

https://www.digchip....AA32416-pdf.php

 

Radio internal photos.

 

https://fccid.io/WVT...tos-4695706.pdf

 

And for those who wonder what a Superheterodyne receiver is there is a nice history and write up here.

 

https://en.wikipedia...rodyne_receiver

 

Looking up the numbers for the other chips, assuming they are not proprietary part numbers for the end user, one might gleam some other interesting details about the radio and it's likely performance.



#36 berkinet

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 07:49 AM

FYI. The official website to search for FCC Compliance reports is: https://www.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid

For the Woxun radio being discussed you would enter Grantee Code: WVT  Product Code: WOUXUN16

The site fccid.io draws their information from the FCC site.


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.

-- Marcus Aurelius


#37 Jones

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 09:19 AM

 

One thing to note in the spec sheet is the 50dB bandwidth spec of just 12KHz.

 

Notice the plus/minus symbol right in front of that 12KHz rating... that means the bandwidth is +12 and - 12 from the center zero point of 450KHz.  That's 24KHz total Bandwidth.



#38 Lscott

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 10:48 AM

Notice the plus/minus symbol right in front of that 12KHz rating... that means the bandwidth is +12 and - 12 from the center zero point of 450KHz.  That's 24KHz total Bandwidth.

Thanks. I missed that. I guess that's what I get for not looking a bit more carefully and just doing a quick scan through the datasheet and dashing off a post. I'm happy to see somebody is interested in the topic enough to look. 8-)

 

So that now brings up the flip side question. Is the bandwidth now too wide? If it's 24KHz then it's way too wide for narrow band FM at 11 KHz. Now it's the reverse of what I wrote in error. Now the normal FM mode is likely OK but not the narrow band mode. Oh well.

 

The FM deviation set for 2.5KHz and the audio gain increased, necessary in narrow band mode using the wide band filter to compensate, will work but the selectivity would suck. Since GMRS is 5KHz deviation narrow band performance likely isn't a big concern.

 

One thing I didn't point out is the power output on the FRS only channels is 0.283 watts as shown in the grant. The FCC allows up to 0.5 watts so this radio won't even do the max allowed output power for those channels.

 

If a potential user is looking at the radio with the idea they may need the narrow band selectivity and the max allowed power on channels 8 to 14, because of a need to communicate with FRS users, may want to consider another radio.

 

In any case looking at the electrical design reveals an aspect of the radio's likely real world performance that isn't mentioned by the manufacture.  At least for the GMRS specific version of the radio.



#39 mbrun

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Posted 16 August 2020 - 10:40 AM

I own a couple of the KG-805G and currently considering getting more. My take on the .283 watts is that it has to do with the FCC requirement for no more that .5w ERP, not .5w transmitter output power. If the radio did output .5w, then putting a good external antenna on the radio would cause it to the exceed the max ERP rating for channels 8-14. FCC clearly wants these channels left for close-in communications only.

Audio quality is fantastic; quality on par with the best audio I hear on repeaters nearest to me and even better than some, plus noticeably better than the 8-10 year old Midland GXT1000 radios I like so much. (BTW, my GXT1000 are the original 5w versions)


...
One thing I didn't point out is the power output on the FRS only channels is 0.283 watts as shown in the grant. The FCC allows up to 0.5 watts so this radio won't even do the max allowed output power for those channels...


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Michael

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KE8PLM


#40 Lscott

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 07:20 AM

I own a couple of the KG-805G and currently considering getting more. My take on the .283 watts is that it has to do with the FCC requirement for no more that .5w ERP, not .5w transmitter output power. If the radio did output .5w, then putting a good external antenna on the radio would cause it to the exceed the max ERP rating for channels 8-14. FCC clearly wants these channels left for close-in communications only.

 

The usual rubber duck antennas, stubby antennas, have a negative gain. To get the 0.5 watt ERP the radio would have to produce more than 0.5 watts. Clearly the market for the radio is GMRS.

 

The low power narrow band channels are an afterthought looking at what components were used. The point is anyone who is considering this radio with the idea of using it to talk to FRS radios, or have a real need too, will likely be disappointed.

 

If the radio does what you want that's what counts. At least people know a bit more about the radio's likely performance and can make a better informed choice. That was the goal here.





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