What I Wish I Knew When I First Started With GMRS

[sifert]

(Regarding above post Lots of answers available if you google "qrp radios")

 

 

This is exactly my point when I said that "the community is very inviting in a go-figure-it-out-yourself way." 

 

I first Googled the exact text Marcspaz mentioned: 7 MHz (40 meter) HF QRP radio.

 

Lots of results, but no definition of QRP that spells out the acronym.

 

Then I Googled "qrp radios" like you say.

 

Lots of results, but no definition of QRP that spells out the acronym.

 

I went to the first ARRL result, this page. This page talks all about QRP, but never actually says what QRP actually is. The entire article assumes the reader knows what "QRP" stands for.

 

Not only is this really bad for newbies... but it's also bad for the entire myGMRS.com domain. Why, you ask? Because guess who else is a total newbie?

 

...Googlebot! 

 

Thus, if myGMRS.com wants to be useful, helpful, and the go-to source for all things GMRS and all of its subtopics such as discussions about "QRP," then it behooves the entire myGMRS.com community to stop assuming. While Google is listening, understand that Googlebot is a search robot with an unprecedented memory, but less intelligence than a kindergartener. It only knows what we tell it. And it looks like no one ever told it what "QRP" stands for... and I bet if someone here on myGMRS.com took the time to spell it out and define what QRP stands for and what it means, then within a few days that post on myGMRS.com will rank #1 for most users in the world who are searching for "qrp radios" or even "what does qrp stand for."

[berkinet]

... "what does qrp stand for."

 

Come on. just look in the wikipedia, or simply google wiki qrp

Here is the link to the wikipedia article section you want

[marcspaz]

This is exactly my point when I said that "the community is very inviting in a go-figure-it-out-yourself way." 

 

I first Googled the exact text Marcspaz mentioned: 7 MHz (40 meter) HF QRP radio.

 

Lots of results, but no definition of QRP that spells out the acronym.

 

Then I Googled "qrp radios" like you say.

 

Lots of results, but no definition of QRP that spells out the acronym.

 

I went to the first ARRL result, this page. This page talks all about QRP, but never actually says what QRP actually is. The entire article assumes the reader knows what "QRP" stands for.

 

Not only is this really bad for newbies... but it's also bad for the entire myGMRS.com domain. Why, you ask? Because guess who else is a total newbie?

 

...Googlebot! 

 

Thus, if myGMRS.com wants to be useful, helpful, and the go-to source for all things GMRS and all of its subtopics such as discussions about "QRP," then it behooves the entire myGMRS.com community to stop assuming. While Google is listening, understand that Googlebot is a search robot with an unprecedented memory, but less intelligence than a kindergartener. It only knows what we tell it. And it looks like no one ever told it what "QRP" stands for... and I bet if someone here on myGMRS.com took the time to spell it out and define what QRP stands for and what it means, then within a few days that post on myGMRS.com will rank #1 for most users in the world who are searching for "qrp radios" or even "what does qrp stand for."

 

 

But we are no longer talking about GMRS... we are way outside of the scope of the purpose of the forum.  It just so happens that some of us have experience outside of GMRS, so we may be able to help with other stuff.

 

And honestly... I just have general ideas.  I still need to get on Google myself, so I can make some specific recommendation.  It seems reasonable that if I have to use Google, than maybe I just point you in the right direction and then you do some research.  Why should we do all the work for you just because you are new to this. 

 

Just because some of us are kind and want to help, that doesn't mean we owe you anything. You will have to do the work.  Having a snooty entitlement attitude isn't going to get anyone anything except for ignored, IMHO.

[marcspaz]

Come on. just look in the wikipedia, or simply google wiki qrp

Here is the link to the wikipedia article section you want

 

I am starting to think we have a troll.

[sifert]

I see what you guys mean, sorry to sound like a troll. @berkinet, I just discovered what Q-codes are, and there's a reason why nobody knows the definition of QRP... because there isn't one. I had to go find on the Wikipedia page this info:

 

"Q" has no official meaning, but it is sometimes assigned with a word with mnemonic value, such as "Queen's" (e.g. QFE = Queen's Field Elevation), "Query", "Question", or "reQuest".

 

I now realize that this topic is beyond the scope of this forum, but for the record the definition of QRP is:

 

"Q-code: Reduce Power"

 

Lastly, @marcspaz what do you mean by a snooty entitlement attitude?

[marcspaz]

Lastly, @marcspaz what do you mean by a snooty entitlement attitude?

 

If someone comes in and acts like they are owed help, while chastising people for not giving them enough help. That, in my opinion, is a snooty entitlement attitude.

[chuckn]

Get your Ham license and buy a 7 MHz (40 meter) HF QRP radio, a small 35 ah battery, a folding or rollable solar charger (optional) make a wire antenna you can toss up in the trees. Call Mayday.

 

No one local will hear you, but many people throughout the nation will and you can ask for help. I have had someone give me grief about this in the past, saying it doesn't do any good to talk to someone on the radio who is 3 states away and my response is always the same.... if I'm stranded in the mountains of Virginia, someone in Georgia, Maine or California can call 911 just as easily as someone in a nearby town.

 

Yes, a HAM license is the plan for later. The GMRS looked to be a gateway radio. I know a HAM will get out. I hiked with a HAM operator in the '80's who made a connected me to my family at home. 

[chuckn]

If you seriously need to be able to call for help, take a look at:

satellite phones  ($200 to $1,000+ for the phone and $0.50 to $2 per minute)

or 

Personal Locator Beacons ($200 to $300)

 

Both of these options are reliable and designed for the type of situation you describe. Other solutions, such as that described by @marcspaz, will also work, but will be more difficult to use and will be inherently less reliable.  Also, if you know the area where you are going and know that cellular phone service is available from high locations, that may be your best bet.  

 

And, as always, keep in mind: P.P.P.P.P.P.

 

Nothing of serious concern. I was just thinking it would be convenient if it would work. Thank you for your suggestions. 

[chuckn]

I am starting to think we have a troll.

I disagree. It is the frustration anyone feels when trying to learn something new. Eventually you find someone who knows how to teach and explain, making the path less cluttered. We'll figure it out. No need for name calling. 

[marcspaz]

I disagree. It is the frustration anyone feels when trying to learn something new. Eventually you find someone who knows how to teach and explain, making the path less cluttered. We'll figure it out. No need for name calling.

 

 

This is not directed at you, but I would like to use your post as an opportunity to make a relevant comment...

 

 

There is an old saying... it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

[chuckn]

The BTECH  V1 arrived yesterday. I was able to program the weather and FM stations. Then how to revert to pre programed GMRS channels. I look forward to trying these radios out soon. I am curious if the pre programed GMRS channels are repeater capable. 

 

I like that one can monitor two GMRS channels. If these radios work out, I might invest in additional units. 

 

In the programing mode, I assume one could find the frequencies of government channels like the park service or local police channels. Some may be listen only. Does anyone know how to find out what frequencies are used?

 

Are HAM radios GMRS capable? 

[berkinet]

...Are HAM radios GMRS capable? 

 

Simple question. Complex answer.  

 

Basically, any radio that is not Part95E certified is illegal to use on GMRS.  But, to go further...

First, you have to define "ham radio."  There are lots of ham radios that do not operate in the GMRS band, so for those the answer is simple, no.

 

Then, UHF radios that cover the GMRS band and are only Part 15 certified, or not certified at all (hams can build their own radios) and legal to use on the ham band but not on GMRS.

 

And finally, GMRS radios will not get certification if they can be user programmed to operate on non-GMRS bands. 

 

However, from a practical standpoint, there are plenty of radios that can transmit on the GMRS band and are not Part95-E certified, and this includes most UHF "ham" radios. Although, in some cases an internal modification is necessary -- usually involving snipping a couple of jumpers or resistors. Not this modification is explicitly prohibited by the FCC rules.

 

So, final answer. Most, if not all, ham UHF radios are capable of operating on the GMRS band, but not legally.

[chuckn]

Simple question. Complex answer.  

 

Basically, any radio that is not Part95E certified is illegal to use on GMRS.  But, to go further...

First, you have to define "ham radio."  There are lots of ham radios that do not operate in the GMRS band, so for those the answer is simple, no.

 

Then, UHF radios that cover the GMRS band and are only Part 15 certified, or not certified at all (hams can build their own radios) and legal to use on the ham band but not on GMRS.

 

And finally, GMRS radios will not get certification if they can be user programmed to operate on non-GMRS bands. 

 

However, from a practical standpoint, there are plenty of radios that can transmit on the GMRS band and are not Part95-E certified, and this includes most UHF "ham" radios. Although, in some cases an internal modification is necessary -- usually involving snipping a couple of jumpers or resistors. Not this modification is explicitly prohibited by the FCC rules.

 

So, final answer. Most, if not all, ham UHF radios are capable of operating on the GMRS band, but not legally.

 

Thank you for explaining. The manual says this radio is Part 95A and complies with part 15.

 

The manual says "the channels labeled REPT run through repeaters that are set up for GMRS usage. Use the channels if you have permission from those that run your local repeater or GMRS channels." 

 

Does this mean the radio automatically connects to a repeater nearby? The reason I ask and back to the hiking application, there are two repeaters near areas where I hike. 

 

Perhaps it will become clear once it occurs later, but how will I know when the radio and repeater connect? I have heard it said that someone could hear the repeater. 

[berkinet]

Thank you for explaining. The manual says this radio is Part 95A and complies with part 15.

 

The manual says "the channels labeled REPT run through repeaters that are set up for GMRS usage. Use the channels if you have permission from those that run your local repeater or GMRS channels." 

 

Does this mean the radio automatically connects to a repeater nearby? The reason I ask and back to the hiking application, there are two repeaters near areas where I hike. 

 

Perhaps it will become clear once it occurs later, but how will I know when the radio and repeater connect? I have heard it said that someone could hear the repeater. 

 

Well, first, the old FCC GMRS regulation was Part95-A, that is now Part95-E. But radios approved for Part95-A are grandfathered for Part95-E. Since the radio is also Part-15 approved, it could be used, probably requiring internal re-programming, on other services.

 

Next, the repeater channels. That just means the radio will transmit on a frequency exactly 5mHz higher than the frequency it listens on. Since most repeaters, especially in GMRS, use some type of access control system, audio tone (not audible to you) or digital  code you would have to also program or set the right tone or code for the repeater you wanted to access.  And, no, there is no such thing as automatically connecting to a repeater. I guess there could be, but I have never actually seen a radio that does that. To make that work, the radio would have to try all 8 repeater input channels, and try all possible access tones/codes and be able to detect if a signal was heard coming back. (See below).

 

Which brings us to your last question... how do you (or a smart radio) know you have "connected" with the repeater. One way is to use another radio to listen. But, that is likely to fail, especially if you are using a cheap toy radio, since its receiver will be overloaded by your transmitter.  The other, more common, method is to listen for a short transmission of client carrier. This is called the hang-time and is set by the repeater owner. So, after the incoming transmission ends, the repeater will continue to transmit for a short period, maybe a second or so.  But, if the repeater has no hang timer, then to only way to tell you got in is to use a second radio.

[n4gix]

In the programing mode, I assume one could find the frequencies of government channels like the park service or local police channels. Some may be listen only. Does anyone know how to find out what frequencies are used?

ALL frequencies not covered by your license are "listen only..."

Transmitting on those frequencies will only lead to a whole lot of legal hurt. Don't do it!

[berkinet]

...In the programing mode, I assume one could find the frequencies of government channels like the park service or local police channels. Some may be listen only. Does anyone know how to find out what frequencies are used?

 

While n4gix is 100% correct, I would add two notes.

#1. The GMRSv1 will only let you transmit on the assigned GMRS frequencies.

#2. in a life threatening emergency, I.e. severe injuries, not just a bear ate my food, I would trade a life for getting yelled at or even prosecuted for illegal use of the radio.

 

And, to your other question... There used to be all kinds of "radio listening" guides which listed things like Police, Fire, USFS, BLM, Railroad, etc. frequencies. The is probably something similar on the net. BUT, most public service agencies have moved over to trunking radios systems (a tiny bit like cellular frequency assignment) so there is no one frequency to listen to. However, i many places the Forest Service, Park Rangers, etc. may still operate one or two direct channels. And, one more caveat: there is a good chance that any channels you find will be on VHF.

[chuckn]

ALL frequencies not covered by your license are "listen only..."

Transmitting on those frequencies will only lead to a whole lot of legal hurt. Don't do it!

Yes, I understand as the manual said as much. These are listen only, but the radio can access. 

[chuckn]

While n4gix is 100% correct, I would add two notes.

#1. The GMRSv1 will only let you transmit on the assigned GMRS frequencies.

#2. in a life threatening emergency, I.e. severe injuries, not just a bear ate my food, I would trade a life for getting yelled at or even prosecuted for illegal use of the radio.

 

And, to your other question... There used to be all kinds of "radio listening" guides which listed things like Police, Fire, USFS, BLM, Railroad, etc. frequencies. The is probably something similar on the net. BUT, most public service agencies have moved over to trunking radios systems (a tiny bit like cellular frequency assignment) so there is no one frequency to listen to. However, i many places the Forest Service, Park Rangers, etc. may still operate one or two direct channels. And, one more caveat: there is a good chance that any channels you find will be on VHF.

Yes, understood and the manual said as much. I was asking in case it was possible not that I would do it. Your point of litigation and saving my ass is well taken. 

 

You've been helpful so thank you. The V1 has two modes, one pre programed and the other for programing. I assume I program similarly as I did to access my local weather channel, some combination beginning with 162,4 or 162.5. To access a repeater in this mode I would first program the 1-22 GMRS channel. If I understand, I would then have to program the repeater code. 

[Lscott]

There are various web sites where you can look up this kind of info. One example is below.

 

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/

 

 

In the programing mode, I assume one could find the frequencies of government channels like the park service or local police channels. Some may be listen only. Does anyone know how to find out what frequencies are used?

[chuckn]

 

There are various web sites where you can look up this kind of info. One example is below.

 

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/

 

 

In the programing mode, I assume one could find the frequencies of government channels like the park service or local police channels. Some may be listen only. Does anyone know how to find out what frequencies are used?

 

Thank you. I programed some of the local fire and police frequencies with the V1, but heard no activity. 

[marcspaz]

Many fire and police in the US are on trunked digital systems that are encrypted. There are very few that are using analog radios and that traffic is usually chatter. Nothing worth listening to.

[berkinet]

Many fire and police in the US are on truncated digital systems that are encrypted. ...

I think your spelling correction tool got a little hyperactive. I assume you meant “trunked” radio systems. BTW, many such systems are encrypted, but by no means all.

 

Also, many jurisdictions maintain a clear audio channel which just repeats traffic from the trunked system. Where these exist, they are perfect for the purposes being discussed in this thread.

[chuckn]

I'll experiment more as time permits with various frequencies. 

 

Question, I have found several GMRS repeater frequencies in my area. If I type in these frequencies in my V1, will I then be connected to the repeater? Does this mean that if my other radio is also connected to this same repeater we may be able to communicate over a longer distance. In other words, lets say I am 30 miles apart from my son. We would not be able to communicate. However, is we both put in the same repeater frequency and with minimal obstructions, would the repeater frequency possibly allow communication? 

 

All I did to connect to the local weather frequency was to type in the frequency which seemed so simple. Is this the same with other applications? 

[marcspaz]

I think your spelling correction tool got a little hyperactive. I assume you meant “trunked” radio systems.

LoL yea, looks that way. With what I do for a living, I actually type truncated a lot (talking about log files, databases, etc.).

 

My phone constantly changes correctly spelled words to other words it thinks I mean. I dont proofread enough and I keep sending messages I don't mean. An example.. a friend asked me if I wanted to buy a bicycle he was selling. I replied that I was to fat to ride a bike, but my phone changed it to I was to gay to ride a bike. Needless to say, my friend was very confused.

[Lscott]

Thank you. I programed some of the local fire and police frequencies with the V1, but heard no activity. 

That might be a good thing, no fires and little criminal activity. 8-)

 

I hear some interesting stuff every once in a while by monitoring the local mall security frequencies. A lot of them are still on analog narrow band FM with their UHF radios. Some have switched to DMR, P25 or NXDN. It gets better around XMAS. I've heard about hookers by the mall doors drumming up business, chasing shoplifters through the parking lot, fights in the food court you get the idea. A couple of times I heard them kick the local TV news crews off the property if they didn't get prior permission. Once the parking lot patrol spotted a couple doing their thing in a car. The mall security supervisor told the mobile security dude don't bother them.