New to GMRS ...

[Guest Andy]

Hello, I am new to the GMRS world and cramming for my Technician Test in a few days. The only good thing, if that can even be said, from the pandemic is the testing for the Technician Test is now really easy to find online! This is great because I'm getting ready to redeploy from Kuwait soon and I'm excited to get my equipment and get into this world of communication. I see this as esp. useful since the wife and I are dedicated campers and I am always looking for more reliable communication when we boondock. Strangely, Ham and GMRS is not something I've found common in RV community, at least my limited experince suggests Ham is not a think within the GenX cohort of RVers and I can't say I've  seen a lot BBers with it either, but I've never asked the question either so who am I to really say? One reason could be RVers, like 4Wrs, are not necessarily looking for another hobby to support the RVing lifestyle. Nonetheless, one thing RVers do lie to do is boondock and complain about the lack of communication and try to upgrade thier cellular communication by throwing a lot of money at the problem.  All the while, we use the popular blister-pack FRS radios around the camp-site and beyond and then complain that everyone is on those channels and they are nothing more than toys. What i have seen in increasing popularity in recent years are the GMRS (Midland's GXT1000s specifically) and that must be due to changes in regulations allowing manufactures to make something that is affordable but a step up from the FRS.  However, the one part I do not hear a lot of RVing people talk about is the licensing aspect of the GMRS which maybe just my limited exposure or ignorance on the part of us RVers. 

 

Understanding that there is a license piece (I'm waiting on mine) and I'll take the Tech test for the Ham in a few days (thanks to the VEA. Inc and VK3FN!)  I am confused on an aslect between Ham and GMRS.   Specifically, can Ham equipment be used on GMRS freqs to communicate with GMRS stations or is that illegal?  I'm trying to find a solution for the wife and myself and I like the capability that Ham provides and I think having that capability as a part of our rig and kit is appropriate for how we travel but she's not getting her license (don't ask, not worth the time to debate the merits) but the Wouxun 805G seems like a good option for her where as I am interested in the Yaesu FT-70DR.  My concern is the legality of the Yeasu talking on the GMSR. 

 

I know I'm not the first to think of this so I do appreciate the forum's patience and any help in understanding is greatly appreciated!   

 

Cheers!

Andy

 

(I realize that I may use the term "radio" incorrectly when referring to an HT or transceiver, but I'm still Active Duty Army and everything that you talk into for us is a "radio" ) )

 

[mbrun]

Hello Andy. Welcome to GMRS.

 

Per the letter of the law, amateur radios are not legal for use on GMRS frequencies (except in life & death scenario). FCC regulations require that the radios used on GMRS (and FRS) to be part 95 certified for the service on which they operate. If you read the current regulations I believe you will conclude that is abundantly clear. Yes, there are many that operate illegally. No further discussion on that point needed.

 

In my opinion, FRS and GMRS are very appropriate for camping activities. Camping is predominately a family and friends activity. FRS has zero barrier to entry and is perfect for close-in comms and provides the ability to intercommunicate with family and others you camp with easily.

 

GMRS and FRS share many for the same frequencies, but obtaining a GMRS license opens you and your family up to the all the potential performance benefits you would otherwise get from operating on the 70cm UHF amateur radio service, while maintaining your ability to intercommunicate with license-fee-free FRS folks as you need. GMRS opens the door for you also to use equipment at 25 times the power of FRS (50w vs. 2w), it allows you to use better antennas, external and higher placed antennas, to use and even deploy your own repeaters. All of these lead you down the path to the potential of much greater usable range. So the end, the license gives you the ability to operate equipment that can extend your range from perhaps a mile to two to perhaps upwards of 25-50-100 miles under many, many practical everyday scenarios.

 

In my opinion, $70 is an insignificant barrier to entry for a 10-year license that covers you and your family. In my view, it is not even worth discussion considering the benefits and scope of use that comes with your license.

 

Your amateur license will give you the ability to talk with license amateurs only. The number of folks licensed is a small fraction of those that have FRS radios, so your pool of interoperability is limited there when it comes to camping. Add FRS to the GMRS users and the pool grows more.

 

The effective usable range of GMRS is exactly the same as the Amateur 70cm (UHF) band when using the same caliber of equipment, antennas and power settings under the exact same set of environmental conditions. So getting an amateur license and operating on UHF is not going to be a benefit there.

 

On thing you will get with an amateur license is access to a much larger pool of repeaters than you will find on GMRS. But this GMRS community is working to expand that. Even so, you may not find repeaters in the vicinity of where you camp (for either service) so that may not be of any material benefit to you under camping conditions.

 

There are some portable low-power repeaters you can purchase (even here on MyGMRS) that can be excellent addition to your camping gear. Put that in your camper and travel with an antenna you can raise to 20-30 feet in the air at your sight and you will be the envy of the campground given the additional range you could potentially have. No, it is not a commercial piece of equipment, but would likely serve you well for those periodic outings.

 

Put a mobile radio in your camper connected to an antenna you raise at your site and you will experience beneficial range increase there too when talking from your base to FRS/GMRS handhelds.

 

BTW, I own also the GXT1000 and KG805G. Both serve a purpose for me. The 805 is now my everyday radio because I it provides repeater access for me. I carry it as well as use it in my car with a mobile antenna.

 

Well, I hope my comments are helpful.

 

Again, welcome.

 

Best of luck.

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Guest Andy]

@Micheal -965 - Thank you for welcome and for the clarification on the amateur to GMRS, I clearly wasn't sure of the right answer. I assume a lot of Noobs ask this since some simple research on my part led me to a lot of threads that talked about this particular topic. Maybe not relative to RVing but researching it myself is the best way start learning and then ask for validation. Thus, I realize that I really need to take a careful read of the CFR sections so that I understand (in the vague sense that laws are written) where tihe information is (at a minimum) and what the limitations and requirements are for a person using the equipment.  Especially since I just paid the licensing fee and I'm sure I agreed that I would do just that!  After I pass the Tech test in a few days, I'm sure I am agreeing to the same in that catagory as well!  But I do appreciate you sharing your knowledge to get me the right answer now. Having the answer validated by someone that knows helps as I go through and read and research on my own so that I'm not necessarily drawing incorrect interpretations of the code. As an aside, I don't know if people have always been able to take the Tech exam online or if its just the result of the pandemic, but I think it's pretty mind-blowing that I can be sitting in Kuwait (on an Army base) and take the US test proctored by Aussies down in Victoria, AUS (thanks VK3FN!)

 

One follow-up question that is less regulation and more operation with GMSR freqs and my frustration with FRS. I have seen what I would characterize as "over-saturation" of FRS in campground environments (KOA, 1000Trails, State or National) as well as Army Corps of Engineers (ACE) or Bureau of Land Management (BLM) areas with the latter areas tending to be significantly larger than the former.  My hope is GMRS will be less saturated since I am thinking GMRS can communicate within a sub-freq that isn't populated(?) Esp. since it has non-shared bands with FRS.  I'm not sure if I have the correct understanding of how the GMRS freqs can be used with a PL (CTCSS) type code.  Or are those codes only for repeaters?  Obviously, the idea is to get away from other people on any given net when I'm trying to communicate with the family.  I acknowledge that without going into some sort of encrypted environment, nothing is secured, but I think (hope) there are ways to find frequencies on GMRS that are not heavily trafficked. Or is that logic flawed? 

 

I also recognize that some of what I am talking about is a little ironic since part of the enjoyment within the hobby IS to communicate with other people but I think these are tools that can serve both purposes depending on the time and place. 

 

I am looking at the KG805G and think that may serve the purpose but I gotta say, it really looks like manufactures haven't really gotten into the GMRS.  Maybe there are things in the proverbial-pipeline since I don't know how this stuff comes to the market and I am seeing some talk about a forthcoming and still un-approved Wouxun KG-UV9G GMSR that looks like greater capabilities than what's out now, so maybe once I get back it will be approved. But still, doesn't seem like a lot.  Any particular reason for that or is GMSR too niche for the average citizen and it's only been recently that the laws are becoming friendlier and breaking down barriers to entry for both consumer and manufacturer?  

[MIKEROD67X]

What website are you taking your tech license online?

[jc1240]

What website are you taking your tech license online?

If you are asking in general (as opposed to the OP's specific test site), ARRL has a bunch.

 

http://www.arrl.org/FindOnlineExam

 

I'm scheduled in person on 9 Jan.  The local VEC group (laurelvec) doesn't charge a penny (yay!).  But I wonder if the bug will cause it to be canceled. 

[MacJack]

Thanks Micheal for your comments.  Not wanting to have too much equipment for my needs, I have two 805G and use my RV while staying at KOA's campsites.  So would it make sense to put a Retevis RT97 Portable GMRS Repeater 5W in my RV with a Midland MXTA-26A with a mag mount NMO base antenna so my two HT KG-805G work with good coverage all things concerning.  Still waiting for my MXTA-26A to come in this weekend with your cable suggestion.  

 

On a personal note.... Micheal "mbrun" has several post and comments well worth reading for us Newbies.  It like drinking from a fire hose... I had to PM him asking for more understanding since I did not want anyone to see how dumb I was...  It a proud issue I'm still working on not having a good understanding yet.  

 

There are some portable low-power repeaters you can purchase (even here on MyGMRS) that can be excellent addition to your camping gear. Put that in your camper and travel with an antenna you can raise to 20-30 feet in the air at your sight and you will be the envy of the campground given the additional range you could potentially have. No, it is not a commercial piece of equipment, but would likely serve you well for those periodic outings.

Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[mbrun]

I think your application is an appropriate use for a low power portable repeater. Yes you could use a standard mobile antenna on top of camper as that would definitely make it higher than your HT antenna so that would have a positive effect on your effective range. You might also give consideration to getting your antenna up higher, perhaps an additional 10-15-20 feet. You could do that by using one of the readily accessible push-up fiber glass antenna masts available from various amateur radio supply shops. They collapse and store easily. You could set this on the ground next to camper, raise it up and secure to side of your camper. There are tripods available for some also.

 

For those new to GMRS and reading this message, antenna height is more way more important than power when it comes to range. Your investment in height will pay more in dividends than any high-powered expensive radio.

 

One special reason for height in a tightly packed KOA campground is all the metal sided campers. The more of those campers in the path of your signal, the greater your signal loss and reduction in effective range.

 

I would start with your initial idea. See if it works to your satisfaction. If range is acceptable, let it fly. If you need more range, raise the antenna.

 

Regards,

 

Michael

WHRS965

KE8PLM

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[MacJack]

Thanks Michael, waiting for spring to come... to test this out.