RADIO - dual use FRS+GMRS and 70CM HAM

[Guest KC2GIU]

Took 19 tries to get a message to post.  Color blinded people can't read the colored Capcha.  One or two letters or numbers can not be determined. Even the refreshing doesn't help at all.      

 

OK, seeing I can now post, I hope, I need a radio with dual use.  FRS+GMRS and Ham 70CM band.

 

Being a ham for well over 40 years mostly on 2M, 10M and 40M with use of voice or data or CW, life circumstances tends to change how one uses radio. 

 

In my area, 2M is nearly dead, both repeaters or simplex. 

 

My kids have FRS, the neighbors all FRS and one has GMRS up the road.  With that said, I'm the odd one out of the chit-chat.

 

Are there radios with dual use?  Ham 70CM and the FRS+GMRS.  And to remain in the FCC rules of power wattage output on the frequencies of the FRS+GMRS realm.  Additionally is there a radio with the CTCSS and DCS functionality as well.  Basically I would like something that covers an ALL-in-One approach.

 

My plan is to have a GMRS license and a 50W radio mobile for dual use even in the Ham allocated 70cm (440).  It's not dual band because the two radio services are basically right next to each other.   Sure, Ham side could go higher in wattage, but the vehicle battery gets taxied too much. Plus, Ham is secondary use in that band anyway.

 

So, rather than spend countless hours poking around on the web, what is the understanding of a solution for an ALL-in-One radio?

 

Steve

KC2GIU

 

PS, if I don't reply soon enough, it's because I can not make out the colored capcha and get too frustrated.   Purples, browns, reds, dark orange are a washed out mess.  Can't make out any of it.  There are capchas out there just B&W that work wonderfully.   

 

[gortex2]

There are no type accepted radios that can talk on GMRS, FRS and HAM. You could pick up a Part 90 radio and program what is needed.

[mbrun]

Good Morning Steve.

 

No, there are no amateur radios manufactured that are strictly legal for use on FRS+GMRS+70cm amateur band.

 

If you read the internet enough I am certain you will conclude that some folks have found radios that can they have activated or modified in some manner to make it possible to technically to do this.

 

If you did find a radio that would allow it, and you were going to comply only with the spirit of the rules, you would need a radio that could be programmed to limit output no more than 1/2 watt on some frequencies, no more than 5 watt on others, and no more than 50 watt on the remaining. That 1/2 watt limit limits the pool of hardware even further, and failure to keep power low on the those designated 1/2 watt frequencies can have an adverse affect on GMRS repeater operation.

 

Sorry, but I have no hardware recommendation for you.

 

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

[Lscott]

There are no type accepted radios that can talk on GMRS, FRS and HAM. You could pick up a Part 90 radio and program what is needed.

True. Any radio that will work in the above situation will likely be a commercial radio.

 

Try looking for a Kenwood TK-370G-1, 128 channels, TK-3170, 128 channels or a TK-3140, 250 channels. These are 1 to 4 watt switchable hand held radios, and can be programmed to do wide or narrow band FM on a per channel basis. All of these are Part 95 certified. The radio I normally use is the 370G-1.

 

https://mra-raycom.com/wp-content/uploads/simple-file-list/Specifications/portables/TK-270G-370G-Product-Brochure.pdf

 

https://5.imimg.com/data5/MT/AL/MY-2136226/tk-3170-handheld-portable-walkie-talkie.pdf

https://www.ameradio.com/doc/Kenwood_TK2140_3140.pdf

 

While the official lower frequency limit is 450MHz for the models that cover the GMRS frequencies  but I have programmed them down close to 440MHz in the Ham band. The software pops up a warning window every time you try to enter the out of band frequencies but will accept it when you click OK. The radios will work a few percent outside of the official range. Most of the Ham simplex channels and repeaters are located between 440 MHz and 450 MHz per the ARRL band plans anyway.

 

The main point with these kind of radios is there are I means to front panel program them and nothing like a VFO on a Ham only type radio. What I did on mine is program a sequence of channels with frequencies like 446.000, 446.025, 446.050 etc. The channel names were 446-000, 446-025, 446-050 etc. This gives a fair simulation of a VFO with a 25KHz step size which is pretty standard on 70cm.

 

I think most Hams have their radios programmed for repeater access with a few simplex channels used  by a local groups.

 

I’ve recommended the aboveKenwood radios because that’s what I have. There are other very good radios from Motorola and others that members can recommend too. 

[axorlov]

Second to Kenwood, I have TK-3170 (that is HT) and TK-880 (mobile), and they will do what OP wants with some limitations.

3170 and 880 are Part 95A (pre-2017), so totally legal to be on GMRS and some (not all!) FRS channels. They both will also work on 70-cm Ham band.

 

TK-3170 (and other Part 95 HTs) will work and legal to use on 462.xxx0 (limit 50W) and 462.xxx5 (limit 5W + narrow band), provided you have GMRS license and follow GMRS protocol (throwing out call sign every 10 minutes). You can't legally use them on 467.xxx5 channels, where rules specify 0.5W and non-removable antenna.

 

TK-880 (and similar mobiles) are legal to use on 462.xxx0 with it's 50W limit, following GMRS protocol. Also will work on 70-cm Ham band. 462.xxx5 are out, since these radios do not go as low as 5W. And 467.xxx5 are out because these freqs are strictly FRS.

 

So, there is interoperability FRS-GMRS-Ham but overlap is not 100%. Besides what was already mentioned, there are other Part 95 HTs and mobiles from Kenwood, Motorola and others. Many of them are covered in great detail on these forums. There is also a bottomless abyss of Part 90 radios, but that's not really legal, you know... But let's not beat up a dead horse again.

[axorlov]

Actually, after re-reading your original post, Steve, I have some additional comments.

I do not have 2m Ham equipment in my cars. I have Kenwood TK-880H-1 (40W) that I use for talking to family when camping and for 70cm repeaters in my area. With Part 95 (and Part 90) equipment you are not going to have VFO, but that seem to be a very minor problem. Repeaters are programmed in advance, 446.000 MHz and few other freqs are pre-programmed too. Lscott covered this already few posts above. There is a front panel programming option with some radios, that do not require a hardware mod, thus not violating Part 95 even in it's stricktest-ever sense.

[gman1971]

+1 to Kenwood, or Motorola used commercial gear is probably your best bet. 

[OldRadioGuy]

You will probably find that just getting a Wouxun 805G for $80 is a lot cheaper than trying to find some special triple band radio.

Many commercial radios (I think) can only be programmed with a computer. 

 

I'm also a long time ham and bought a pair of 805G's so I can use with the wife and fishing friends etc.

It just worked out best that way.

 

You will find that your 440/70cm antennas work well though.

Also, Wouxun works with some Kenwood accessories like speaker mics.

 

Vince

[Guest larry]

i know i am very late to this party. 

but the yaesu VX6 is your radio,

they say good to 30 min under water down to 3 meters.  unit is sealed up, has extras. 

is a try band radio fits in your shirt pocket.  

2meter, 1.25 cm, 70cm.

the battery is not so great do to the size of the radio so must have a second, but can be charged in your car or off any 12 V dc source.  no cradle needed. 

can be mars adjusted. 

but the cost…. 3 - 4 US bills in 2024 new. and still in production. 

 

[Lscott]

28 minutes ago, Guest larry said:

i know i am very late to this party. 

but the yaesu VX6 is your radio,

they say good to 30 min under water down to 3 meters.  unit is sealed up, has extras. 

is a try band radio fits in your shirt pocket.  

2meter, 1.25 cm, 70cm.

the battery is not so great do to the size of the radio so must have a second, but can be charged in your car or off any 12 V dc source.  no cradle needed. 

can be mars adjusted. 

but the cost…. 3 - 4 US bills in 2024 new. and still in production. 

 

Also NOT certified for GMRS.

For new users to GMRS the recommendation is to get a radio with Part 95A, under old rules, or Part 95E under the new rules certification. Some of the older commercial radios are certified under Part 95A and perfectly legal to use on GMRS. Plus, with some effort, they can be used outside of their official band split to allow operation into the upper half of the Ham 70cm band where the repeaters are typically located. Not all commercial radios allow this. 

This is just one such example:

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/263-tk-3170jpg/?context=new

The difference between a 4 watt verses a 5 watt radio isn't very significant. Some may recommend a higher power handheld radio. What you'll get is a much shorter battery life and a great hand warmer, burner, if the radios is used at high power for more than very brief transmissions. I've read where some people have destroyed their radio from heat, even at the 4 to 5 watt level, when used at high duty cycles.

 

[SteveShannon]

2 hours ago, Guest larry said:

i know i am very late to this party. 

but the yaesu VX6 is your radio,

they say good to 30 min under water down to 3 meters.  unit is sealed up, has extras. 

is a try band radio fits in your shirt pocket.  

2meter, 1.25 cm, 70cm.

the battery is not so great do to the size of the radio so must have a second, but can be charged in your car or off any 12 V dc source.  no cradle needed. 

can be mars adjusted. 

but the cost…. 3 - 4 US bills in 2024 new. and still in production. 

 

They’re selling new for $249-$269, unless you buy from Amazon. A friend just bought one from HRO after borrowing mine to see if it would work for him. 

[Socalgmrs]

There are many many many radios that are 2m and 70cm that do ham, gmrs, FRS, murs and even have weather channels.  Many if not most are in the 100-$200 range and 50w even have water proof ones.  

 

[WRUI365]

I have 2 Motorola's that I use for GMRS and HAM 70cm myself, they are the XPR7550E and XPR5550E. Handheld and mobile which both also do dmr along with analog. Just a thought if you go that route. Also have a Harris XG100pP which covers vhf/uhf and scan the 700/800 bands along with vhf/uhf trunk frequencies.

[Lscott]

5 hours ago, WRUI365 said:

Also have a Harris XG100pP which covers vhf/uhf and scan the 700/800 bands along with vhf/uhf trunk frequencies.

Drooling.

[WRXB215]

15 hours ago, WRUI365 said:

Also have a Harris XG100pP

WOW! 

[nokones]

I thought that my Kenwood TK880-1 would be compliant on the 462 MHz Interstitial channels on low power but my recertified Bird 43 says it puts out a tad over 6 watts. I remember that my POS MFJ 849 said 4.7 watts last year that is why I decided to check this morning to see what the Bird would said.

As for operating on the 462 MHz Interstitial Channels, you can operate wideband and narrowband, its your discretion. It's not just narrowband only, as per Section/Rule Part 95.1771(a)

The Kenwood and Motorola portables and mobiles would be your best bet in order to be compliant with Part 95, Subparts A and E, and have the ability to program 70cm freqs. You will need to find the "R" model radio in the earlier models and the "Q" model radios for the later models in order to have the operating band range for programming the 70cm and GMRS freqs.

[Lscott]

40 minutes ago, nokones said:

The Kenwood and Motorola portables and mobiles would be your best bet in order to be compliant with Part 95, Subparts A and E, and have the ability to program 70cm freqs. You will need to find the "R" model radio in the earlier models and the "Q" model radios for the later models in order to have the operating band range for programming the 70cm and GMRS freqs.

You have to be careful about which models to get. For example the Kenwood TK-3180's come in two different band splits. Both will cover GMRS, but only one has Part 95A certification. The 450-520 MHz band split can be "pushed", enter out of band frequencies with a warning message, down below 450 MHz to get into the repeater section of the Ham 70cm band.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/417-tk-2180jpg/?context=new

Some radios, like the Motorola's, the frequency range is locked to the official one and out of band frequencies can't be entered like with the Kenwood's. You have to buy the correct band split version. Also they may not have Part 95 certification either.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/261-motorola-xpr6550jpeg/

For example while the Motorola XPR6550 is a nice radio it's not FCC Part 95 certified.

 

TK-3180 FCC Grant-2.pdf TK-3180 FCC Grant-1.pdf TK-2180_3180 Brochure-2.pdf XPR6550 FCC Grant 4.pdf XPR6550 FCC Grant 3.pdf XPR6550 FCC Grant 2.pdf

[nokones]

As I was referring to the "R" and "Q" model radio, those radios are Motorola radios. 

The Kenwood TK880 model (25 watt) band splits are: the TK880-1 is 450-490 MHz; TK880-2 is 485-512 MHz; TK880-3 is 400-430 MHz and the TK880H is the 40 watt radio with the same respective band splits.

As Lscott said, you may be able to push the 70cm freq programming in the Kenwood. Since, I am not an Amateur, as in HAM radio operator, I never had a need to try that with my Kenwood.