Equipment List (will be adding to)

[Doctnj]

So handhelds came in last night and had a fun time seeing how far they could reach half charged.  I could not wait till they were fully charged.  Most rechargeable batteries are shipped between 30 and 50 % at least in the drone world.  Way better than expected even though.  Almost 3 miles with rolling small hills and trees.  KG-805G and NA-771G on top.  Wife was still in the house and I was in my truck so pretty nice.

Now the rest of the plan.  ----- What is already on order    JetStream 25 Amp switching power supply.  Tram 1486, Kg-100G radio, and for mobile, NL-770g, Tram 1296 mno-UHF adapter, Br-1258 UHF 3/4 inch hole mnt, comes w 17 ft coax. 

 

                                          -----  What is about to be ordered   ROHN 28' MAST pushup, ROHN 24D WALL MOUNT, ROHN BASE, GROUND WIRE, GROUND ROD, GROUND WELD CLAMP, GOUNDING BAR, ALPHA DELTA UHF COAX SURGE PROTECTOR, GROUND COPPER WIRE,  COAX CONNECTOR WEATHER PROOFING TAPE,  ( not sold on guy wire etc ) since it goes up, it can come down or lower for storms.  Ill have to look at it, the mast is 28' max and I dont see going much past 20 if that.

For the coax Ill use will be the good stuff.  I need to do some measuring and figure out how many fittings I need plus 2 and how many feet of coax plus 5'

AND AN SWR METER  - but im not saying which one

So far for now.  Any suggestions excepts swr's welcomed                                       

[kidphc]

Really suggest the guy wires. Even 21' fiberglass poles get wobbly. A steel push up will start getting wobbly as you exceed about 10 feet.

Nothing worse then all your antenna gear getting trashed if it were to come crashing down.

My Diamond x200 at 8' starts swaying badly enough with modest winds. I know it is fiberglass but can be a worry at times. Part of the reason it is in the attic.

Depending on the distance from your houses electrical service ground you may need multiple 8' ground rods. Make sure to bond it to the house. Also consider renting a impact hammer from a hardware store to drive the ground rod. The recommendation of using water to drill the ground rod has resulted in some very condesending conversations with electricians.

Lastly, think about the coax hard. It can easily be one of the most expensive parts of the install. The db loss in coax over long runs can add up quick. Nothing like having a 8db gain from a great antenna being eaten all up by coax loss. Unfortunately, stuff like LMR400 really should only be used for GMRS at under 100 feet. At that length I want to say it is a 6db loss (actually think that was for ham 70cm which was 440mhz). Yes, jumpers, swr meters and connectors add up in the loss department. Depending on designs and such probably less the 1db or so.

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[Doctnj]

48 minutes ago, kidphc said:

Really suggest the guy wires. Even 21' fiberglass poles get wobbly. A steel push up will start getting wobbly as you exceed about 10 feet.

Nothing worse then all your antenna gear getting trashed if it were to come crashing down.

My Diamond x200 at 8' starts swaying badly enough with modest winds. I know it is fiberglass but can be a worry at times. Part of the reason it is in the attic.

Depending on the distance from your houses electrical service ground you may need multiple 8' ground rods. Make sure to bond it to the house. Also consider renting a impact hammer from a hardware store to drive the ground rod. The recommendation of using water to drill the ground rod has resulted in some very condesending conversations with electricians.

Lastly, think about the coax hard. It can easily be one of the most expensive parts of the install. The db loss in coax over long runs can add up quick. Nothing like having a 8db gain from a great antenna being eaten all up by coax loss. Unfortunately, stuff like LMR400 really should only be used for GMRS at under 100 feet. At that length I want to say it is a 6db loss (actually think that was for ham 70cm which was 440mhz). Yes, jumpers, swr meters and connectors add up in the loss department. Depending on designs and such probably less the 1db or so.

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Don't know if you didn't see but I'm getting the best coax.  Forgot the name. But yes it's lmr-400.  And yes you may be correct about guy wire.  I am connecting to house up to 10 '.  My thoughts is having 28' mast only extended to 22 feet max increasing the area of overlap making it more stiff. I'll eval it and yes if it's a sway machine it's not hard to throw on guy wires.  It comes with rings. Living in Ozarks every hill is a sand stone pile.  When I drove a ground rod for a pool I put in I hit a rock every 3".  That's really the issue. Spose I could rent an auger for the stakes and ground rod. 

[kidphc]

Didn't see the part about the coax.

As far as guy wires. You should be able to skip it, if the pole is secured to the frame of the house. Since, the house essentially becomes the guy wires. I had thought you were placing it in the yard.

Impact hammer drill. They sell the attachment for ground rods for some $50. With you don't have to worry about blowing out the head (expanding) as you drive it. Yes, it will cost money to do it this way. But it will be a lot easier. NEC says you can bury it horizontally, for instance where bedrock won't allow you to drive it vertically. Do read up on it if you choose to go this way since they are specific on how to do it. Worst comes to worst pay an electrician to drive the rod and do all the bonding work.

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[OffRoaderX]

Good luck!  going through much of the same right now.. struggling to find a workable place for the antenna, but settled on a telescoping mast mounted the side of a 7-foot wall..  Also went with the LMR-400..

Hope to have mine all up and running by next week. My setup is a repeater using TWO KG-1000G's, but everything else is pretty much the same.

[axorlov]

2 hours ago, The_NotARubicon said:

Also went with the LMR-400..
... repeater using ...

You may want to search this forum in regards of using LMR-400 with the repeater setup. Works fine for regular station, not very suitable for repeater.

[SkylinesSuck]

I've heard that repeated but never heard the reasoning behind it.  

[kidphc]

I've heard that repeated but never heard the reasoning behind it.  

I am curious also why?

Plus what in the world are you guys using for duplexers?

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[mbrun]

I've heard that repeated but never heard the reasoning behind it.  

The reason I have read on multiple occasions has to do with use of dissimilar metals being used in the various shield layers of the coax. When the exterior layer of the shield is exposed to certain conditions it can can cause intermittent negative effect on low-level signals traveling within the cable.

Pages 2-5 of the following white paper talk about the phenomenon within the context of static/lightning protection. I would image there is similar technical explanation that talks about this purely within the context of repeater operation.

https://www.polyphaser.com/News/DownloadFile?downloadGuid=52f23510-c294-40d8-889b-b63f1c6fdcb5


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

Edit: Here also is a thread on motorola related forum that is discussing the topic as well.

https://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?t=24173

[Radioguy7268]

I live and work in the real world. LMR400/LMR600 is what we use in probably 75% of our installations for repeaters. Price/performance, the stuff is hard to beat. Plus, it's easy to install & holds up well - provided that you install it correctly. That means that you need to shrink wrap the connections & use mastic on any outdoor connections. Keep the line secure & don't let it flap in the breeze, keep water out of it, and you'll see 15+ years out of it IMHO.

When I have pulled LMR400 due to noise or "the Rice Krispies effect" it's almost always been soldered on PL-259 UHF connectors. I did have a recent replacement of a customer's LMR400 that was 20+ years old & was showing noise during the repeater tail. Once we got up on the roof, we discovered that the real problem was a cut in the line due to a recent roofing job, not really a failure of the cable due to install or age.

When I do installations where the line runs are over 100 ft, or when the budget allows, then Heliax is my go-to favorite for UHF or VHF.

I find more problems typically with the jumpers used for duplexers than I do with LMR400. Pay attention to the quality of your connectors and cabling used at ground level before you spend big money on heliax. There is sense to the idea of buying quality one time, but there's also a realistic factor.

 

[Doctnj]

9 hours ago, kidphc said:

Didn't see the part about the coax.

As far as guy wires. You should be able to skip it, if the pole is secured to the frame of the house. Since, the house essentially becomes the guy wires. I had thought you were placing it in the yard.

Impact hammer drill. They sell the attachment for ground rods for some $50. With you don't have to worry about blowing out the head (expanding) as you drive it. Yes, it will cost money to do it this way. But it will be a lot easier. NEC says you can bury it horizontally, for instance where bedrock won't allow you to drive it vertically. Do read up on it if you choose to go this way since they are specific on how to do it. Worst comes to worst pay an electrician to drive the rod and do all the bonding work.

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       Wow that hammer drill thing sounds great.  Usually if I have to dig down past a foot Ill go rent a baby backhoe .  Hammer drill attachment sounds a ton better.  

[Doctnj]

9 minutes ago, Radioguy7268 said:

I live and work in the real world. LMR400/LMR600 is what we use in probably 75% of our installations for repeaters. Price/performance, the stuff is hard to beat. Plus, it's easy to install & holds up well - provided that you install it correctly. That means that you need to shrink wrap the connections & use mastic on any outdoor connections. Keep the line secure & don't let it flap in the breeze, keep water out of it, and you'll see 15+ years out of it IMHO.

When I have pulled LMR400 due to noise or "the Rice Krispies effect" it's almost always been soldered on PL-259 UHF connectors. I did have a recent replacement of a customer's LMR400 that was 20+ years old & was showing noise during the repeater tail. Once we got up on the roof, we discovered that the real problem was a cut in the line due to a recent roofing job, not really a failure of the cable due to install or age.

When I do installations where the line runs are over 100 ft, or when the budget allows, then Heliax is my go-to favorite for UHF or VHF.

I find more problems typically with the jumpers used for duplexers than I do with LMR400. Pay attention to the quality of your connectors and cabling used at ground level before you spend big money on heliax. There is sense to the idea of buying quality one time, but there's also a realistic factor.

 

Im missing what type of connector you are saying to use?  I get the shrink wrap use it pretty often but I dont know what connect?  If it were just an electrical issue Id solder and shrink-wrap.  thanks.

[kidphc]

Im missing what type of connector you are saying to use?  I get the shrink wrap use it pretty often but I dont know what connect?  If it were just an electrical issue Id solder and shrink-wrap.  thanks.

For 440 mHz and higher generally recommended to use n-style connectors. For heat shrink outside use UV rated marine style. Marine shrink wrap usually has glue built into it.

Also most all coax seal is not UV stable. So you will need to wrap coax seal in UV electric tape.

Keep in mind, that the hammer drill will work for smaller rocks. Larger rocks like some small boulders that I run into when digging in WVa will not work. You are still trying to drive a soft copper rod, doesn't matter if it is 1/2 inch wide or not.

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[Doctnj]

9 hours ago, The_NotARubicon said:

Good luck!  going through much of the same right now.. struggling to find a workable place for the antenna, but settled on a telescoping mast mounted the side of a 7-foot wall..  Also went with the LMR-400..

Hope to have mine all up and running by next week. My setup is a repeater using TWO KG-1000G's, but everything else is pretty much the same.

Well I saw the radio was backordered when I ordered it, estimate ship date may 7, so it gave me a time to start educating myself and trying to get the best I can afford.  There are those who would have said that was a while back lol.  But yes Ive been reading non stop and watching and reading reviews and right or wrong getting help from the place I ordered most of my equip.  They would give me some names and I would research then go back and place an order.  Pretty much all of the grounding equip is coming from the mast maker, or seller or what ever.  Looks like ill be all in on mast, mounts, grounding, surge protection about 4 bills.  Pretty reasonable.

I was running some errands yesterday i.e. getting stuff for my wife.  And I took my hand held and just left it on scan.  So inside my truck I heard others both trips out.  Bother were very quick, enough to stop the scan but not to understand just a voice.  I think there are a few in this area and once I get my antennas up, will be surprising how much better it will be.  Pretty excited.

[Doctnj]

3 minutes ago, kidphc said:

For 440 mHz and higher generally recommended to use n-style connectors. For heat shrink outside use UV rated marine style. Marine shrink wrap usually has glue built into it.

Also most all coax seal is not UV stable. So you will need to wrap coax seal in UV electric tape.

Keep in mind, that the hammer drill will work for smaller rocks. Larger rocks like some small boulders that I run into when digging in WVa will not work. You are still trying to drive a soft copper rod, doesn't matter if it is 1/2 inch wide or not.

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Thanks now off to research and read some new stuff and add to the list.  I havent paid for my mast and grounding gear yet.  keeping the cart open for a bit till I think I have most of what I need.  I plan to have mast attached near a peek on side of house then run coax down to the basement which is just above ground level.  Ill have my radio in there so it will terminate just inside to a surge protector on a grounding bar then over to radio.  Question about the  grounding bar.  I was contemplating grounding the power source and radio to the bar.  This could just be linear thinking but if the antenna took a hit and it came down through the ground bar, wouldnt that "back feed" to the radios? 

[kidphc]

Also for the antenna have you thought about an Ed Fong jpole cut/built to GMRS? Just need to slip it in a PVC pipe. Use muffler claps with some tubing to avoid cracking the PVC. The muffler clamp should be large enough to slip over the mast and PVC.

He makes great antennas. If you don't know about him. He is a professor in antenna theories, builds them with his students. Well known in the Ham community.

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[kidphc]

Thanks now off to research and read some new stuff and add to the list.  I havent paid for my mast and grounding gear yet.  keeping the cart open for a bit till I think I have most of what I need.  I plan to have mast attached near a peek on side of house then run coax down to the basement which is just above ground level.  Ill have my radio in there so it will terminate just inside to a surge protector on a grounding bar then over to radio.  Question about the  grounding bar.  I was contemplating grounding the power source and radio to the bar.  This could just be linear thinking but if the antenna took a hit and it came down through the ground bar, wouldnt that "back feed" to the radios? 

Yes. Don't daisy chain. Each peice of equipment should be ground to the buss individually. The buss/ground bar to the outside ground.

How are you entering the house. Window pass through? Ribbon cables? Drilling a hole?

I use a mfj window pass throughband dxengineering ground box.

Lighting protection is a misnomer. It is more for static build up discharge and near strikes. A direct strike is going to wipe out tons of gear and maybe parts of the house. I like many hams usually disconnect everything for lightning storms.



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[Doctnj]

25 minutes ago, kidphc said:

For 440 mHz and higher generally recommended to use n-style connectors. For heat shrink outside use UV rated marine style. Marine shrink wrap usually has glue built into it.

Also most all coax seal is not UV stable. So you will need to wrap coax seal in UV electric tape.

Keep in mind, that the hammer drill will work for smaller rocks. Larger rocks like some small boulders that I run into when digging in WVa will not work. You are still trying to drive a soft copper rod, doesn't matter if it is 1/2 inch wide or not.

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So real quick.  On the N style.  The female side is on all equip? Usually?  

[kidphc]

So real quick.  On the N style.  The female side is on all equip? Usually?  

Usually, yes. Each antenna could be different. It is a recommendation only.

I actually use so239/pl259. Since all of my stuff has that connector. They do sell a version of my ham radio in Europe where the uhf/vhf port is n-style. In the US it is so239. I can deal with the losses, especially since the run of coax is short, and didn't want to deal with adapters or buying new polyphasers and such.

Btw. Polyphasers are dc blocked. Not a problem with your current antenna choice. But some hoops ( if you get a ham ticket and want to reuse the gear for ssb work), don't work well with dc blocked arrestor. Most of the hoops were not dc blocked to deal with common mode noises. Or if you get a yagi, on unblocked setup yo can use the same coax to feed commands to the rotator. But I am getting way ahead of your build.

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[Doctnj]

5 minutes ago, kidphc said:

Yes. Don't daisy chain. Each peice of equipment should be ground to the buss individually. The buss/ground bar to the outside ground.

How are you entering the house. Window pass through? Ribbon cables? Drilling a hole?

I use a mfj window pass throughband dxengineering ground box.

Lighting protection is a misnomer. It is more for static build up discharge and near strikes. A direct strike is going to wipe out tons of gear and maybe parts of the house. I like many hams usually disconnect everything for lightning storms.



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I have every option available but I plan to bring in through the wall above grade.  Ill be combining two hobbies in one room.  Wont be able to have radio on while measuring gun powder on electric scales.  Although lately they havent been on very much.  Hence new hobby.  More important every day.

 

Wow thanks for the pics.  Ill be looking at them on my phone so I can really zoom in.  Im the son of a master electrician so I grew up helping dad create new equipment for the cable company on our dining. So that just means you are very detail oriented and challenge accepted.  Although it may be a bit before looking polished.  I watched a video where the center conductor is soldered as well as crimped.  Thats a first for me.  But I want it done right.

[kidphc]

I have every option available but I plan to bring in through the wall above grade.  Ill be combining two hobbies in one room.  Wont be able to have radio on while measuring gun powder on electric scales.  Although lately they havent been on very much.  Hence new hobby.  More important every day.
 
Wow thanks for the pics.  Ill be looking at them on my phone so I can really zoom in.  Im the son of a master electrician so I grew up helping dad create new equipment for the cable company on our dining. So that just means you are very detail oriented and challenge accepted.  Although it may be a bit before looking polished.  I watched a video where the center conductor is soldered as well as crimped.  Thats a first for me.  But I want it done right.

Thank you I like to try and plan for changes in the future and try to do it right the first .

Great then you have more then half of the foudations down just by experience with an electrician. Especially, if you get a ham ticket and start experimenting.

Like many hobbies there is a lot to learn. The quality tools are expensive but worth it. Part of the fun is learning.

Good luck and have fun.

** edited because I thought his son was an electrician. Did not realize he was the son of a master electrician, and helped dad out growing up.

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[Doctnj]

5 minutes ago, kidphc said:

Usually, yes. Each antenna could be different. It is a recommendation only.

I actually use so239/pl259. Since all of my stuff has that connector. They do sell a version of my ham radio in Europe where the uhf/vhf port is n-style. In the US it is so239. I can deal with the losses, especially since the run of coax is short, and didn't want to deal with adapters or buying new polyphasers and such.

Btw. Polyphasers are dc blocked. Not a problem with your current antenna choice. But some hoops ( if you get a ham ticket and want to reuse the gear for ssb work), don't work well with dc blocked arrestor. Most of the hoops were not dc blocked to deal with common mode noises. Or if you get a yagi, on unblocked setup yo can use the same coax to feed commands to the rotator. But I am getting way ahead of your build.

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A few years back I put in a pool, in ground.  That is a bonding nightmare.  I live in the country so dont have to pull permits but when I run electricity or plumbing I always run it to code.  Dont want to run into surprises if I ever sell the house.  And as far as loosing some equipment, I have a movie room in the basement and twice in 15 years Ive had to replace projector and the receiver / amp.  Not to direct hits just in the area.  Our utilities are all sub grade.  Apparently hdmi cable transmits power surge very well.

[kidphc]

A few years back I put in a pool, in ground.  That is a bonding nightmare.  I live in the country so dont have to pull permits but when I run electricity or plumbing I always run it to code.  Dont want to run into surprises if I ever sell the house.  And as far as loosing some equipment, I have a movie room in the basement and twice in 15 years Ive had to replace projector and the receiver / amp.  Not to direct hits just in the area.  Our utilities are all sub grade.  Apparently hdmi cable transmits power surge very well.

Yeah. Good cables that conduct signals/electricity well. Do well in doing so in both directions.

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[Doctnj]

Well just took a deap breath and placed order.  Except for few small items I can get locally. Which isn't much. 

[OffRoaderX]

10 hours ago, axorlov said:

You may want to search this forum in regards of using LMR-400 with the repeater setup. Works fine for regular station, not very suitable for repeater.

No matter what I buy, someone will say it's wrong. LMR-400 will do the job just fine.

[Doctnj]

34 minutes ago, The_NotARubicon said:

No matter what I buy, someone will say it's wrong. LMR-400 will do the job just fine.

I ordered enough to probably have almost 10' extra.