Bubble Pack Repeater

[MichaelLAX]

I am thinking about installing a GMRS repeater for family and friends to communicate:

I would provide them each with a pair of bubble pack HTs preprogrammed to the same 462/467.xxx frequencies (so called Channels 14-22) and flip the repeater to REV (that is: swap the input and output frequencies). [edited for clarity]

Then they could transmit on one HT and receive on the other.

Comments?

[wayoverthere]

The one comment I'll make is make sure the handhelds you have in mind are truly able to transmit on the repeater channels. Most of what are considered "bubble pack" don't have access to the repeater input frequencies (I know my midlands don't, but I know there may be exceptions).

Outside of that, I don't see any glaring issues...if you have reasonably priced radios that cover the channels you need, good to go. I do wonder if it would be more cost effective to step up slightly above bubble packs to something like retevis or wouxun that can do repeaters natively and not have to mess with two radios, though.

[bobthetj03]

The Radioddity GM-30's can hand split tones and are inexpensive. Retevis has a cheap one too. 

[MichaelLAX]

36 minutes ago, wayoverthere said:

The one comment I'll make is make sure the handhelds you have in mind are truly able to transmit on the repeater channels. Most of what are considered "bubble pack" don't have access to the repeater input frequencies (I know my midlands don't, but I know there may be exceptions).

Remember, this repeater will reverse its input and output frequencies, such as to work with bubble pack HTs.

[wayoverthere]

13 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:

Remember, this repeater will reverse its input and output frequencies, such as to work with bubble pack HTs.

So you're using 462.xxx as the input, and 467.xxx as the output?

[MichaelLAX]

Yes that would be the plan so the bubble wraps could transmit on that freq

[wayoverthere]

14 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:

Yes that would be the plan so the bubble wraps could transmit on that freq

I'll trust you have something picked out for the handhelds that can receive those frequencies, then.

As far as I know, the only 467.xxx channels the midlands receive are the "frs" low power (interstitial) channels.

 

[MichaelLAX]

Good point: Bubble wrap to transmit and BaoFeng’s to receive!!

[SEIGLER001]

So if you're already thinking Baofengs ...they could do both yeah? Is the idea to keep your friends (sorta via ignorance) legal and only take a legal risk yourself? I've hear arguments that reverse repeaters are legal, but would not want to be the one that tests that in court.  Any FRS radio could hit the repeater, come out on the input (with potentially a ton of power) and interfere with someone's repeater input.

The Retevis RT 22 is priced like a bubble pack but TXs a real 2 Watts and RXs better than any stock antenna HT I have. That might suffice simplex, and it can be programmed if you need to.  How many miles, what type of terrain?

In our network the FRS radios rely on human relays to get messages beyond the neighborhood. Works well with enough people.

[MichaelLAX]

I'm still trying to figure out a solution that includes only bubble pack radios through a repeater... Just a fun mental exercise!

I am not familiar with Retevis; although I understand that they have released a clone of my Anytone AT-779UV.

The specs/features of your suggested RT-22s look terrific at that price point!  They of course leave out all of the 467.xxxx channels

[MichaelLAX]

2 hours ago, SEIGLER001 said:

Any FRS radio could hit the repeater, come out on the input (with potentially a ton of power) and interfere with someone's repeater input.

Now there's a concept: Double Puddle Jumping!!!

[gortex2]

most bubble pack radios were not designed to go thru repeaters hence no repeater channels. If you plan to use a repeater and folks are licensed just spend the money and get some gmrs radios. 

[mbrun]

Repeaters are not permitted to transmit on 467.xxxx frequencies per 95.1763 © 467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. Mobile, hand-held portable and control stations may transmit on these channels only when communicating through a repeater station or making brief test transmissions in accordance with § 95.319©. The channel center frequencies are: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[MichaelLAX]

11 hours ago, kb2ztx said:

most bubble pack radios were not designed to go thru repeaters hence no repeater channels. If you plan to use a repeater and folks are licensed just spend the money and get some gmrs radios. 

Good idea: what do you recommend?

[mbrun]

Good idea: what do you recommend?

I sounds like cost is a top concern. Assuming you want to operate with FCC Rule boundaries, then the least expensive purpose-built repeater is the GMRS version of the Retevis RT-97.
Then for new repeater capable handhelds you have low-cost repeater capable choices from Wouxun, BaoFeng, Retivis.

If you want to roll your own repeater from new hardware, Wouxun offers the KG-1000G. Two of these mobile units, a duplexer, a few front panel settings changes and you have repeater.

I use the Wouxun KG-805G and 905G HTs. Both are type certified, feature ample fully-programmability memories (128-256), are repeater capable, have wide and narrow bandwidth support, feature split tone capability (including custom tones), and have performed exceptionally well in my semi-rural environment. Both work better than bubble pack radios.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[MichaelLAX]

Thanks for those recommendations: I will look more closely into your selections.

[wayoverthere]

If you go the RT97 route, retevis does offer a bundle with the repeater and a couple compatible ( handhelds for not much more than the cost of the repeater: https://www.retevis.com/mobile-gmrs-repeater-rt97-handheld-gmr-radio-rt76/

If you plan go a different route on handhelds though, there's also the option to support the site by buying through the site shop (depending when @rdunajewski is able to get more RT97's in), for the same price as most other sources. https://shop.mygmrs.com/  

 

[MichaelLAX]

Looks like Radioddity saw the need and supplied the radio: FRS unlicensed radios that include GMRS repeater channels:

Radioddity GM-N1 FRS/GMRS HTs

2 watts; 

permanently fixed antenna, 

0.5 watts and Narrow Band on Channels 8-14 (from programming software), 

listed under "LICENSE-FREE SERIES" on Radioddity's Download page (for software and manual).

Bubble-Pack HTs that include GMRS repeater capability! 

[Radioguy7268]

Except that in order to actually transmit through a repeater - you do need to be operating under an actual GMRS License. So they're not really "license free" - they're just cheap 2 watt radios with a fixed antenna.

[MichaelLAX]

You are correct!

Exactly what I was looking for:

“Cheap” Bubble-Pack Part 95 certified HTs that have GMRS Repeater capability!

[n4gix]

I've had four of these for the past four years:

Amazon.com: WLN KD-C1 Rechargeable Mini Walkie Talkie, UHF 400-470Mhz Prefessional Two Way Radio with Desktop Charger and Belt Clip for Kids Hiking Hunting Airsoft(1 Pair) : Electronics

They are functionally identical to the "new" Radioddity versions. The only real difference is that these have Part 95e certification.

The WLN KD-C1 are 5 watts versus 2 watts. They are all programmable via Chirp and the standard BaoFeng/Kenwood programming cable. They are excellent performers, very light weight, and smaller than a pack of cigarettes.

[MichaelLAX]

Great tip; thank you!

I want to get away from those radios that are GMRS Repeater capable but "not Part 95 certified" for friends and family that might be made nervous by that issue, so the Radioddity version provides that "sleep at night" capability.

But it is good to see other, more powerful wattage options available.

I am due to receive on Tuesday an HT for less than $15 (including sales tax) that should be GMRS repeater capable (but no Part 95 certification) for my further experimentation. 

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, MichaelLAX said:

Great tip; thank you!

I want to get away from those radios that are GMRS Repeater capable but "not Part 95 certified" for friends and family that might be made nervous by that issue, so the Radioddity version provides that "sleep at night" capability.

But it is good to see other, more powerful wattage options available.

I am due to receive on Tuesday an HT for less than $15 (including sales tax) that should be GMRS repeater capable (but no Part 95 certification) for my further experimentation. 

Which one did you get? My last major purchase was a TK-5320 analog/P25 UHF radio. There’s hardly any P25 activity in my area, but like you said for experimenting.

https://pdfs.kenwoodproducts.com/18/TK-5220&5320Brochure.pdf

[WRFP399]

Why make this hard on yourself? Just get an RT97 GMRS repeater, place it up high somewhere. If you want cheap and simple radios to hand out, use Retevis RT-22 radios.

 

Done.

[axorlov]

On 8/29/2021 at 12:16 PM, n4gix said:

The only real difference is that these have Part 95e certification.

Which ones have Part 95e certification, the Radioddity or WLN? The picture on Amazon does not show any FCC ID.

PS.
Search for 2AN62-GMN1 produces nothing (id is taken from the Radioddity description page), and search for Radioddity's 2AN62 produces 46 results, neither of them is GM-N1.