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Fun topic - SHTF communications plans and equipment?


Lscott
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I see posts at times where people want a radio for “emergency” communications. That’s great. But if you don’t have a way to keep the radio on the air it’s useless.

Various radio services are used, Ham Radio, MURS and GMRS/FRS. Since this is primarily a GMRS forum what plans and procedures have people implemented, such as frequencies, alternative power sources (solar, generators etc.) to keep their station on the air? 
 

Myself I have radios for all of the above. I also have a collection of solar panels, charge controllers and tend to use LiFePO4, LFP, battery packs. I hate Lead Acid batteries. I’ve ruined enough of them even with care. In addition I have a few battery eliminators when using the mobile or the big LFP battery packs. The LFP batteries you can charge and just about forget them on a shelf for a year or more and they still hold enough charge to power a radio for a significant time. Can’t do that with a Lead Acid type.

For antennas I have one dual high gain on the Jeep that works for Ham, MURS, GMRS and another dual band I can deploy on a portable 20 foot push-up mast. I have additional mobile antennas with magnet mounts I can use too. Making a 1/4 wave antenna is dead simple. For GMRS the vertical element is only 6 inches tall. Used some 2M elements that screw into the magnet mounts and cut them down to the frequencies required. I did that for a 1.25M one since I have a few tri-band radios for Ham and didn’t have an antenna for the band.

Some of the charging bases for my radios use up to 15 VDC, while the battery packs they charge never exceed a bit over 8 VDC. Running them on 12 to 14 VDC should work fine. A few of them I modified with Anderson Power Pole connectors to run off a vehicle electrical system or the LFP packs with the adapters I made. One set of radio models I have battery cases that will take various types of expendable batteries.

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I live near dangerous Hayward fault, and the house is on one side of it, and wife's and mine offices and kids colleges are on the other side of it. We have an emergency plan, sort of, and communication plan is a part of it. And comm plan is not a biggest or most important part of our emergency preparedness.

However, since we are talking about radios. The first question to answer is who exactly you want to talk to in the emergency? And why? Or maybe you only want to listen?

I care about friends, I care somewhat less about society in general. Most I care about is my close family. In my family everybody is trained with GMRS radios (and also me and my daughter are hams), everybody knows what Radio-3-3-3 is and how it applies to our family needs. Everybody knows the main and reserve frequencies, and how to put radios on scan. How do they know and trained in all of that? Many years of camping, hiking, biking, kayaking and other outdoor activities with regular use of GMRS handhelds and mobile radios.

My preparedness status has some gaping holes in it. Biggest one is that my big battery for base station degraded, and I haven't got around to replace it yet. Our electric car can power our base station and computers for a couple of weeks. We actually lived off it for a week without stable electricity last year, during the big fires 10 miles from my house (SCU Complex in August 2020). But it's not much help if the car is on the _other_ side of the rift when "the big one" hits.
Second hole - I lost ability to listen to local police and fire with the move to P25. I currently lack P25 in my setup. I'm experimenting with RTL dongle, but that's not a solution, really.

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In a SHTF situation, the best I currently hope for is local comms with locals, either simplex or through repeaters that may remain online. A couple of local repeaters on located on hospitals and are known to be powered by emergency power. Although I am on the fringe, in an emergency situation I can listen to and get into both with marginal audio.

I have no family members within radio range, only radio-enthusiast friends and acquaintances. I figure bench depth in this area will be a huge help in keeping information flowing. Once I have my HF antenna up, effective comm range will improve.

My original focus for radio has been simplex communication with my wife. Both HT to HT and HT to base for when one or both of use if one or both need to wonder out for a while.

I have SLA in my shack but with limited capacity. I also have additional large SLA on float to power the sump pumps in grid down. I know I have limited capacity and no recharge capability in a GD situation and also no generator. Note to self…Improve this.

We always keep loads of spare batteries, battery packs, flashlights, lanterns, food and propane on hand for cooking and heat supplement. Propane would be my source of energy if I added a backup generator.

We have plenty of NOAA radios, including those with solar capabilities. We have some external LiPo batteries to help with cell phones in the event cell service remains up with available capacity.

I have been hoping to move my shack into the basement, but if I do that I know I need have even more need for extended runtime capability on the sump to keep basement dry and usable to protect the shack and food stores in an extended GD scenario.

Overall, on scale of 1-10, I feel I am only prepared about to a level 2. Good for a few days in some areas and a few months in others. But honestly, not very well balanced. Note to self…Improve this.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

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  • 3 weeks later...

Lscott,

For a SHTF I recommend a backpack with a 5550e for local comms, encrypted, and a FT-817ND for long range all band/all mode work.  333 is how I would operate in a SHTF scenario.

All our cars have a mobile radio on them, either a 5550e or an EVX-5300... and all of my family members carry an XPR7550e, along a complementary SL7550e with spare batteries. We initially used them only for family business matters, but now we are at a point in which we use them all the time, for personal stuff too, instead of using the cellphone. In fact, I don't carry a cellphone anymore... the infrastructure I've built is so reliable now that I no longer need for the government/goggle/et all. to know where I am at every moment by tracking my cell movement, shoving some ads in my face in the process.

G.

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My plan involves nothing more than Cellular Voice for primary communication with Wifi/Cellular Data for Alternate Use. GMRS for Contingency and 2M/70CM HAM for Emergency Use to supplement my GMRS as the 2M mountain top repeaters were are **WIDE** coverage and have backup power. We are talking 4000+ plus feet AGL. My plan involves communication for the "local" area which is around 30 miles. This is easily accomplished with my solar recharged Retevis RT97 on a mountainside. Now family and friends just pick up and turn on a HT. Due to geography here it works well. .

Most of this was fueled by the Cellular net becoming overloaded during our Earthquake in 2018. That illustrated a real world need for local comms between family and friends.

I don't really care about extreme long range comms through HF as we are so cut off here it doesn't really matter to me. If the world got to a point where our comms were down for so long that the only way to reach outside of Alaska is HF I have so many other more important things to deal with than speaking with the lower 48. Push come to shove, there are enough HAM's here that I could just find one.

 

Solar is what I obviously chose for these low power needs.

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On 8/22/2021 at 9:12 PM, axorlov said:

 How do they know and trained in all of that? Many years of camping, hiking, biking, kayaking and other outdoor activities with regular use of GMRS handhelds and mobile radios.

This here is important.  Sometimes just letting the kids have a radio while they drive their power wheels around gives them some good familization. My wife learned basic radio use while back country hiking. Cell service drops quick here so radios allow simplex use between hiking party members and some popular areas are covered by repeaters so that gives some duplex familization. 

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  • 1 month later...

Hmm, I spoke elsewhere on this topic.

Here's a dumbed down version and a few extra thoughts. 

You need to consider ahead of time what and to who you are wanting to communicate.  You also need to carefully consider what sort of disasters that you are going to prepare for based on what realistic situations you may encounter in your geographical location and, or the geographical location of your bug-out location.  And understand that EVERYTHING I am saying is based on a situation where the FCC and current regulations that we all follow on a normal basis will be out the window if the situation degrades to a point you are bugging-out and seeking shelter elsewhere or have hunkered down and have 24/7 armed security as part of you op sec plan. 

First topic is encryption.  Again, we are discussing a situation that no one cares any more.  First level is the basic DMR encryption, there are two levels, basic and advanced.  Your programming can provide specific channels and zones within your radio that have secure channels.  This is a good start.  No one that you haven't provided a key to will be able to listen and NO scanner will decode this type of communications.  Going hog wild and getting high end radios with AES256 is not needed as the government is NOT gonna be bothering with you at this point. 

Second is common bands and frequencies.  Programming up stuff like GMRS frequencies, MURS frequencies and the like and then encrypting them will draw attention.  It's unwise to think that just because someone is a radio nerd that they wouldn't come take your crap is dumb.  So a second layer of security is odd bands and frequencies.  If no one is using 900 Mhz around you,,, that is where you need to be for that additional layer,  and in truth using 900 in an area that has no traffic in that band even without encryption is still better than running around with basic encryption on UHF in the GMRS allocations.  Lots of people will be listening there. 

The top layer for op sec by a large margin is FHSS or Frequency hopping spread spectrum.  These radios will transmit bursts from 40 to 200 Mhz and are unmonitorable by any normal equipment or scanners.  So these radio's will not only stop basically ANYONE from listening but will also not provide a method for others to track you by your signal. 

 

Bear in mind that any situation that will last for over a month and is significant enough that FEMA is gone home people will be on the air telling tails of whoa and suffering to get you to either give away your position or draw you into a trap so you can be robbed.  You will need to learn to trust basically NO ONE.  This may be simply not trusting their decision making abilities when dealing with the new normal and others that mean to do you harm, or even the possibility THE ones closest to you may purposefully betray you for reasons unknown until that situation arises.

So, in short, if you are worried about your radios in a SHTF situation, have you gotten all the other ducks in a row and are prepared in the countless other ways that you need to be?  Because the radio may play a roll in saving you or someone you care about.  But it's gonna be worthless if you haven't prepared for yourself to survive all the rest of whatever the situation is.

 

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7 hours ago, WRKC935 said:

First topic is encryption.  Again, we are discussing a situation that no one cares any more.  First level is the basic DMR encryption, there are two levels, basic and advanced.  Your programming can provide specific channels and zones within your radio that have secure channels.  This is a good start.  No one that you haven't provided a key to will be able to listen and NO scanner will decode this type of communications.  Going hog wild and getting high end radios with AES256 is not needed as the government is NOT gonna be bothering with you at this point. 

 

This is a bit more complicated. There are various types of encryption, digital and analog. Any radio(s) you get with the idea of using encryption during a SHTF emergency all radios need to be using the same type.

The simple ones using voice inversion isn't exactly that simple either. Some radios use a fixed frequency for the voice inversion while others allow you to input your own custom inversion frequencies. The radios that use a single frequency will very likely NOT have that frequency documented thus making it far more difficult to get different manufactures radios to work together if at all. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_inversion

Digital encryption is even more of a mess. While there are standards, such as AES256, there are others that are proprietary to a given manufacture, and this isn't limited to the cheap radios. Some of the encryption methods are limited due to the US ITAR export restrictions, thus are hard to find, expensive to buy/license or simply not available.

https://www.cise.ufl.edu/~mssz/Class-Crypto-I/Housekeeping/export-control.html

While high end standards like AES256 likely isn't necessary for security it could be from an inter-operational standpoint. One form on another site a person was asking about if some of the DMR Chinese radios can communicate with Motorola's Mototrbo radios using digital encryption. At the basic level of Motorola's digital encryption the answer was no, however some were successful using the higher end AES256 since this is a standard.

Then to make things even more of a mess you have the various digital voice formats. Another one is NXDN for example where the standard has provisions for 15 encryption keys included in the protocol, and optional AES and DES can be used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NXDN

With some of the commercial radios, where you find the most options for digital encryption, it's an extra cost feature and requires the installation of an encryption hardware module or "activation key" in software to enable the hardware. Then to use it requires a special cable and or "key loader" to input the encryption keys.

https://kenwoodcommunications.co.uk/acc/modules/KWD-AE21 NEXEDGE AES/DES Encryption Module/

https://kenwoodcommunications.co.uk/acc/modules/KWD-AE31 AES/DES Encryption Module/

https://csrc.nist.gov/csrc/media/projects/cryptographic-module-validation-program/documents/security-policies/140sp2200.pdf

https://www.radioandtrunking.com/midian-encryption.html

Some of the Chinese radios don't make you go through this crap, example the D878UV HT's.

 

 

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Besides the encryption topic the second is keeping the radios operating. If you can't power up the radios they're useless. A good SHTF plan requires some thought about emergency power.

In my case I have a number of LFP, Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4), battery packs, solar panels and charge controllers.

I prefer the LFP battery packs since you can charge these up and let them sit around for months, in some cases a year or more, without them self discharging to a large degree. Lead acid batteries you can't do that, you will ruin them very quickly. Also the LFP battery packs the output voltage holds up over most of the capacity range, at the start around 13.3-13.4 VDC, and when you get down to about 10 percent state of charge it's around 12.8 VDC whereas a lead acid type might be around 10 VDC. Most mobile equipment is spec'd at 13.8 VDC +/- 15 percent so the lower limit is 11.7 VDC.

I would recommend an MPPT charge controller setup for the LFP battery packs. Don't try using the lead acid types, the battery packs won't charge correctly.

https://www.bioennopower.com/collections/12v-series-lifepo4-batteries

https://www.renogy.com/

https://sunforgellc.com/genasun/

I have a number of 50 watt, 30 watt, 20 watt and a number of small 10 watt panels. Some of the panels I picked up at Ham Radio flea market sales. I use the GV-5 MPPT charge controller for LFP batteries. The battery packs are 6 amp-hour for portable use and one main 40 amp-hour for stationary use.

To connect everything together I built a number of extension cables and adapters using Anderson Power Pole connectors.

https://powerwerx.com/

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I don't disagree with either of you but every bit of what both of you said goes to the prior preparation for a situation. You need to know who you are gonna be communicating with and how that communication is going to happen. More over what is gonna be communicated. You are not gonna like the outcome if you are discussing on an open GMRS or FRS frequency about what materials, food stuffs and equipment you have and then talk about location.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, WRKC935 said:

I don't disagree with either of you but every bit of what both of you said goes to the prior preparation for a situation. You need to know who you are gonna be communicating with and how that communication is going to happen. More over what is gonna be communicated. You are not gonna like the outcome if you are discussing on an open GMRS or FRS frequency about what materials, food stuffs and equipment you have and then talk about location.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

You can have all the "Op Sec" you want but if a hostile party DF's your location because they figure you got radios, and so might have other valuable goodies, then show up. Getting found on the air is an invitation to come and check you out. Heck, they might just want your radios!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/26/2021 at 2:39 PM, Lscott said:

You can have all the "Op Sec" you want but if a hostile party DF's your location because they figure you got radios, and so might have other valuable goodies, then show up. Getting found on the air is an invitation to come and check you out. Heck, they might just want your radios!

If you set up a broadcast station, you deserve to be df'ed and mugged.  Any real plan that went as far as considering encryption, should also include coordination of limited time on air, multiple frequency and/or band usage, mobile or at least movable transmitting to avoid df attempts.   I've been following some threads on other forums on the same lines of thought and learned a little about fast acting single point df equipment.  To say its expensive and exotic is understatement. 

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2 hours ago, AdmiralCochrane said:

Any real plan that went as far as considering encryption, should also include coordination of limited time on air, multiple frequency and/or band usage, mobile or at least movable transmitting to avoid df attempts.

Indeed. All of this should be sorted out before the encryption. Some of this things (time protocol, frequency plan) also applicable to normal life situation: say, when somebody is lost in national park. Or trekking through national park and saving time and battery while keeping in touch with support crew.

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On 11/3/2021 at 5:04 PM, AdmiralCochrane said:

   I've been following some threads on other forums on the same lines of thought and learned a little about fast acting single point df equipment.  To say its expensive and exotic is understatement. 

Yeah, the idea that there would be roving gangs of people out with this sort of technology is just not realistic. 

I was trying to spoon feed this.  But there are simple attainable methods for avoiding the laymans approach to DFing a signal.  The easiest is using a directional antenna and moving it after each transmission 10 degrees or so but maintaining the general direction of the signal.  The reason this works is the received signal by the person trying to track you with an S-meter or even a spectrum analyzer is going to see a variance in the signal lavel.  Of course tracking a signal down using the signal strength method requires that signal to NOT vary in level so that as you approach it, the signal rises in level.  If you drop 10 db then increase 5 db then drop 6 db trying to home in on that is a bit difficult.  And in truth the person that is gonna know how to combat that is NOT gonna be the one leading an armed group of thugs bent on taking your stuff. 

Now since we are gonna really discuss this.  Lets do just that.  I said that there was planning  that was involved that needs to be done PRIOR to a situation.  And where I was saying simple things like who and what with communications.  There is a lot more to that.  The first thing with a real TEOTWAWKI situation that is going to take years to correct if it happens at all is you are NOT gonna be able to survive that on your own, or with just your family.  As the fuel finally completely runs out and you need to start farming the way it was done in the early 1800's without tractors and planters you will need groups and communities to pull together and pool resources.  You are going to need to figure out who those folks are and then figure out communications with them.  There are circles of communications.  We have this in day to day life.  There are things that you will tell your wife you would never tell your buddies, but might discuss with CLOSE friends,  these are the circles of communication.  And planning on HOW you are going to communicate with those people is key to survival.  Then you are going to have security groups that will be task with community security, that no one but that group will have communications with.  Again, we have this now.  SWAT teams have secure radios that the average beat cop can't access.  And there is a reason for that.  I talked about pooling resources.  One of those resources is the guy or guys that setup the communications.  There are people (mostly the phone guys) that will be able to get into the phone central office, acquire a number of solar panels and bring some number of phones back on line at least within that CO.  Others that are network engineers and the like will be putting some level of computers back up and leverage thing like STARLINK which will still most likely operate since the birds are self powered.  While there will NOT be a Facebook or Instagram to entertain you,  the idea of someone spinning up a solar powered Raspberry-Pi with a mail server on it will be very possible.  And this sort of this will not be isolated.  But these sorts of things are going to be important.  But planning is key to ALL this.  And figuring out number one who do you trust at that level and two what skills do they have to be leveraged will be key to getting things back to normal.

 

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I am late to the party here... 

So, first of all, to those hinting Anytone, and the other CCR garbage... dead before caught with a CCR during a SHTF situation... its like being caught with an airsoft during an armed robbery... also, even suggesting the use of CCR garbage for SHTF sounds like a sure way to set someone for failure....

Then, assuming that cellular voice or data network will work during a SHTF seems quite risky, if not flat out preposterous... also, assuming repeaters from other people/ham/gmrs will work is also risky too. Why? b/c the few available channels after SHTF will be absolutely saturated with desperate people trying to get a hold of other people. No, you need your own infrastructure with RAS if at all possible, so only you and your party can use the system even during a total comm blackout.

As for Encryption,

In a real SHTF, just the fact of using digital modulation alone will be a huge improvement over open unsecured AM/FM/SSB radios, all AM/FM/SSB radios don't require anything special to hear the other radio, you can just casually tune the freq and it just works, but on DMR you require a lot more know-how just to get radios to talk to each other. Then, if you add digital encryption on top of that, even with just BP (basic privacy) from Motorola, your comms will be pretty much considered secure comms in a SHTF scenario, since scanners won't be able to decode even BP. The huge advantage of DMR also is that you can disable radios that are captured; lets say the enemy has taken your radio with your security codes, etc, all you need to do is send the authenticated radio kill (or stun) command and the radio will be officially useless until reactivated back at base.

Batteries

Solar, ATM, seems the only way to make this work reliably in a portable fashion. You could do some sort of hand crank generator, but those are larger than some small foldable panels.

Lets not forget that water the #1 survival item, that and iodine tablets, chlorine tablets and a reusable water filtration system. Without this, it doesn't matter how many APX8000 you have on your fleet, or how many Gatling guns you have or how many M2 Bradley IFV vehicles are parked in your bunker... you are dead within 72 hours.

G.

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2 hours ago, gman1971 said:

The huge advantage of DMR also is that you can disable radios that are captured; lets say the enemy has taken your radio with your security codes, etc, all you need to do is send the authenticated radio kill (or stun) command and the radio will be officially useless until reactivated back at base.

Provided you enable that feature in the radios. Also the stun code has to be set differently for each radio in the fleet. If you set them all to the same code and send the stun command you just killed all your radios that were turned on, on frequency and in range. Oops. Don't forget to keep a record of which radio has which stun code in it.

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39 minutes ago, Lscott said:

Provided you enable that feature in the radios. Also the stun code has to be set differently for each radio in the fleet. If you set them all to the same code and send the stun command you just killed all your radios that were turned on, on frequency and in range. Oops. Don't forget to keep a record of which radio has which stun code in it.

Well, the authenticated stun makes it so only authorized radios can stun the radio, so if someone sends you a stun command the radio will ignore it.

G.

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3 hours ago, gman1971 said:

Well, the authenticated stun makes it so only authorized radios can stun the radio, so if someone sends you a stun command the radio will ignore it.

G.

That prevents everyone from accidentally stunning each other's radio. As you pointed out you likely just want the main base/dispatch radio to stun any of the radios in the fleet.

I just looked at the NX-300 CPS to see exactly how it's done for that radio. You send the stun command by MDC1200 along with the target radio's ID, the one you want to stun, which has to match. That's the validation part. If the ID's don't match nothing happens. In any case you need a list of each radio and their ID. Of course each radio must have a unique ID for this to work down to a particular single radio.

I guess I wasn't clear in the other post about the stun code being different in each radio. In the specific example above it's the radio's ID that has to be different. For the several common digital modes, P25 - DMR - NXDN, each radio can have an individual ID associated with it, at least they should have.

The individual ID is used normally for making direct radio one-to-one calls so others don't get bothered by messages not for them. So usually this is already likely setup for a business environment. This also might be very handy for a SHTF situation where for COM-SEC you might not want everyone on your radio net to hear a message. For example maybe you have a stash of food and weapons but only trust a few in your group with the location when out and about but your whole party needs to be on the radio net.

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Correct, but the authenticated means that only certain radios can actually stun the radio, so, even if you send the command from another radio it will be ignored. Basically, the radio that you want to stun also has a list of approved radios that can stun it, which prevents unauthorized stun/kill cmds from other radios.

Yes, each radio on my fleet has its own unique ID, that way I can just dial anybody who is within ~20 miles of base, like a cellphone.

G.

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14 hours ago, gman1971 said:

Correct, but the authenticated means that only certain radios can actually stun the radio, so, even if you send the command from another radio it will be ignored. Basically, the radio that you want to stun also has a list of approved radios that can stun it, which prevents unauthorized stun/kill cmds from other radios.

Yes, each radio on my fleet has its own unique ID, that way I can just dial anybody who is within ~20 miles of base, like a cellphone.

G.

I’ll have to dig deeper into this. From the quick read through on the specific radio I looked at there wasn’t anything that restricted the stun command being issued by a radio that stood out. The feature is spread out over several different screens as check boxes and other entries so I could have missed some important details.
 

What you mentioned could be right for the models you have. I’m guessing each manufacturer implements it differently. It’s likely different even between models from the same manufacturer. I think some of the analog only radios I have include it too.

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56 minutes ago, gman1971 said:

For my NX-300 the below is right out of the help file. Apparently as long as the radio gets the command in MDC1200 format and the radio's ID matches the one programmed into the radio it works. I see no mention where there is a restriction on what radio can issue the stun command, other than if the MDC code transmit is enabled in a particular radio. You also have to have the right code for the stun command as well.

As I mentioned other radios and manufacture's likely implement this feature differently.

_______________________________________________________________

Stun Validation

 

Stun Validation allows you to configure whether the transceiver will be in the Stun state by the transceiver receiving a Stun command in the MDC-1200 format.

In the case that Stun Validation is enabled in the transceiver, and when the transceiver receives a Stun command and the received ID matches the ID preconfigured for the transceiver, the transceiver will be in the Stun state and cannot be operated. In the case that the transceiver is in the Stun state, and the transceiver receives a Revive command and the received ID matches the ID preconfigured for the transceiver, the Stun state will be aborted and the transceiver can be used.

Range:

Check (Enable):
Enables the capability to disable the transceiver when the transceiver receives a Stun command in the MDC-1200 format and the received ID matches the ID preconfigured for the transceiver.
Uncheck (Disable):
Disable the capability to disable the transceiver even if the transceiver receives a Revive command in the MDC-1200 format.

Default:

Unchecked (Disabled)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stun Code

 

Stun Code allows you to configure the code to disable the transceiver which will remain disabled until the transceiver receives a code to revive (enable) it.

Stun Code is intended to prevent an unauthorized person from operating the transceiver, for instance, when the transceiver is stolen.

When the transceiver receives the Stun Code, the transceiver transmits the Stun-on Tone. When the transceiver receives the Stun Code followed by "#", the stunned transceiver will revive.

Range:

10 digits

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