Lscott Posted November 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, tweiss3 said: I'll send you a PM, I don't want MOL mad at me for posting it. OK. I read it. Not as expensive as I thought. What happens after the initial 3 years ends? You still can legally use the software? If not that sort of sucks. I find I need to make changes time to time, either changing the configuration, buttons, menus and so on. The other is keeping up with the changes to the local repeaters. Talk groups changes mainly on DMR. Others the repeaters simply fail and never seem to get back on the air so off hunting for another one to use. Or new one pops up. One is never really done programming their radio. Something always needs tweaking or changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweiss3 Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 From what I understand you cannot make any changes after the 3 years, and need to renew the license. I figure I'll either have more than 1 moto radio then, or have none. The price per year to maintain 2-4 radios isn't bad, and maybe by then I will have the family running around with radios as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortex2 Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 Software will continue to work. You just wont be able to download any new updates or versions. Radioguy7268 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lscott Posted November 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 32 minutes ago, tweiss3 said: From what I understand you cannot make any changes after the 3 years, and need to renew the license. I figure I'll either have more than 1 moto radio then, or have none. The price per year to maintain 2-4 radios isn't bad, and maybe by then I will have the family running around with radios as well. For just a few radios that will add up. For hobby use I couldn't justify the cost. For a business it's a drop in the bucket. That's Motorola's business model. They don't cater to the single user. For a dealer it's like buying toilet paper. Spread the license fee over 100's or radios and the cost is almost nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweiss3 Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 2 hours ago, kb2ztx said: Software will continue to work. You just wont be able to download any new updates or versions. That's good to know. Atleast I can maintain existing radio codeplugs. 1 hour ago, Lscott said: For just a few radios that will add up. For hobby use I couldn't justify the cost. For a business it's a drop in the bucket. That's Motorola's business model. They don't cater to the single user. For a dealer it's like buying toilet paper. Spread the license fee over 100's or radios and the cost is almost nothing. Yea, I knew that when I pulled the trigger. Then again, I got all in for what a new crummy Anytone costs now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweiss3 Posted November 3, 2021 Report Share Posted November 3, 2021 In a crazy turn of events, I tried CPS16 and was able to read the radio over wifi. I then started a codeplug again, and was able to write in CPS16. I'm going to sick with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radioguy7268 Posted November 3, 2021 Report Share Posted November 3, 2021 If you can stick with CPS 16, then you're much better off to stick with using that. As for the CPS software's 3 year subscription - that allows you to access and download new versions of CPS for the next 3 years. Generally, there's a new update every 6 months or so - along with Firmware updates. CPS Software, once downloaded, is yours to use. There's no stop date built in, other than the fact that newer radios with newer software will not be able to be read/manipulated with your older, outdated software at the end of 3 years. The problem for subscriptions has more to do with Motorola's new SUM or Software Update Management - which is really more towards the Firmware side of things. New radios come from the Factory with a 5 year Essential Services/SUM included - so 5 years worth of Firmware updates are included along with the Warranty on brand new radios - which is kind of important if you're trying to keep an entire fleet operating with features like enhanced GPS, Cap Max trunking, or Indoor Location. After that initial 5 years of "free" is up, you would not be able to do Firmware updates to keep the radio current with the latest releases of features - unless you pony up to get a new SUM subscription - which will run in 3 year terms. Confused yet? Motorola's vision is that they're really a Software and Services company - and they're no longer satisfied to sell equipment which might last 5, 10, or 15 years - and only make a profit on that one-time sale of equipment. They want to generate a revenue stream that is continuous, and try to tie the operation of features and services to the equipment. I don't think most hobby folks are going to want to play in that arena, but I've been wrong before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lscott Posted November 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Radioguy7268 said: They want to generate a revenue stream that is continuous, and try to tie the operation of features and services to the equipment. I don't think most hobby folks are going to want to play in that arena, but I've been wrong before. More companies are going that route. For hobbyists it doesn’t make sense. Some are figuring out that the hobbyist is the ticket to future business. For example with microprocessor development systems they cost a fortune in the past. Now you can get really cheap development boards and free IDE’s. The idea is once you get somebody, college or university student, familiar with their hardware and software they go on to recommend it once they begin working in their field because they know the products. I would guess a number of people have recommended radios from the major manufacturers for their work place, or for others personal use, based on their experience using second hand radios purchased for personal use and scamming up the software. Myself I’ve recommended a number of Kenwood radios because I know what they can do and the software wasn’t hard to find. I wouldn’t mind their new radios, the NX-5200, 5300, 5400 series, but their change in software licensing is a complete show stopper for hobby use. So, for those models I wouldn’t even take one for free. The software licensing model Kenwood has moved to is expensive, restrictive and in general doesn’t fit how I use and program my radios. I have several computers I use, at work - home - traveling, and having the software tied to a particular computer with Internet activation is a deal killer. The above isn’t just with radio programming software you find this with just about all the CAD software out there too. I use a number for hobby use and they are 10 to 20 year old versions before the companies moved to the same license scheme above or required hardware dongles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n4gix Posted November 3, 2021 Report Share Posted November 3, 2021 18 hours ago, Lscott said: The above isn’t just with radio programming software you find this with just about all the CAD software out there too. I use a number for hobby use and they are 10 to 20 year old versions before the companies moved to the same license scheme above or required hardware dongles. Autodesk's 3D Studio Max changed to a monthly or yearly subscription model several years ago. It is horrendously expensive! Fortunately for me, the company for whom I work pays for the software for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gman1971 Posted November 10, 2021 Report Share Posted November 10, 2021 Hmmm, me likes... new Motorolian citizens! G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gman1971 Posted November 10, 2021 Report Share Posted November 10, 2021 On 11/3/2021 at 6:54 PM, n4gix said: Autodesk's 3D Studio Max changed to a monthly or yearly subscription model several years ago. It is horrendously expensive! Fortunately for me, the company for whom I work pays for the software for me. Yep, I think last version was 2018 stand alone... after that is all subscription type of software... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gman1971 Posted November 10, 2021 Report Share Posted November 10, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 7:57 PM, Radioguy7268 said: If you can stick with CPS 16, then you're much better off to stick with using that. As for the CPS software's 3 year subscription - that allows you to access and download new versions of CPS for the next 3 years. Generally, there's a new update every 6 months or so - along with Firmware updates. CPS Software, once downloaded, is yours to use. There's no stop date built in, other than the fact that newer radios with newer software will not be able to be read/manipulated with your older, outdated software at the end of 3 years. The problem for subscriptions has more to do with Motorola's new SUM or Software Update Management - which is really more towards the Firmware side of things. New radios come from the Factory with a 5 year Essential Services/SUM included - so 5 years worth of Firmware updates are included along with the Warranty on brand new radios - which is kind of important if you're trying to keep an entire fleet operating with features like enhanced GPS, Cap Max trunking, or Indoor Location. After that initial 5 years of "free" is up, you would not be able to do Firmware updates to keep the radio current with the latest releases of features - unless you pony up to get a new SUM subscription - which will run in 3 year terms. Confused yet? Motorola's vision is that they're really a Software and Services company - and they're no longer satisfied to sell equipment which might last 5, 10, or 15 years - and only make a profit on that one-time sale of equipment. They want to generate a revenue stream that is continuous, and try to tie the operation of features and services to the equipment. I don't think most hobby folks are going to want to play in that arena, but I've been wrong before. True that, but you can always remain on CPS 16 like you suggested, and these XPR radios should last a very long time if well cared for. I think 20 years for an XPR7550e is feasible... those radios are built really well IMO. There are radios made from Moto from the 80s that are still being sold on eBay and they still perform quite well... so... G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gman1971 Posted November 10, 2021 Report Share Posted November 10, 2021 @tweiss3 Glad you got your MOL stuff... bye bye CCRs G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gman1971 Posted November 10, 2021 Report Share Posted November 10, 2021 On 10/28/2021 at 8:59 PM, Radioguy7268 said: Ordering new equipment right now is an exercise in patience. Beyond the painfully slow interface of shop.motorolasolutions.com, you're entering into a time delayed backlog of immense proportions. You would also get a new unit that requires CPS 2.0 for programming. Do yourself a favor, grab a slightly used XPR7550e for half the price and half the hassles - and then you can use CPS 16 build 828 (which is the last CPS version before CPS 2.0 was introduced.) Hmm... I order almost once a month from motorolasolutions.com, the site is not slow for me, but again, in computers it really depends... if you run the site with a Pentium III I am sure it will be a bit slower than if you run it with a Ryzen 9... Absolutely solid advice here: Get a NOS, or a slightly used XPR 7550e. I have an entire fleet of those and I've never had a problem. G. gortex2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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