Wouxun KG-1000G CTCSS tones

[Guest Fred WRNT890]

I am having issues using certain CTCSS tones.  I have not yet identified all tones that do not appear to be working correctly but there are several.

When I try to use 136.5hz or 110.9hz my transmissions are unusable.  If I use 100.0hz or 156.7hz everything is good.

I have not dug through all programming options for the radio and am wondering if there could be a known issue with certain tones or some programmable option that may be conflicting with certain tones.

Thank you for any suggestions.

[OffRoaderX]

Can you give a little more detail on exactly what you mean by "unusable" ?

[axorlov]

There are tones that are susceptible to external interference. The 136.5 is one to avoid. The radio that sends DCS does it at 134.4 baud, and if you have nearby repeater or radio using DSC (no matter which one), your radio may mistakenly think it's 136.5 it's hearing. 110.9 is little too far from the second harmonic of 60Hz, but who knows, tone decoder on your radio may not be tuned properly.

There is a thread here, comment from n1das explains it well:

 

[Guest Fred WRNT890]

Thank you for the responses.

The issue, as explained to me (by those I try to communicate with), is that there is some sort of cyclic interference that makes it so they only hear/understand about every fourth word I say.

I have no trouble hearing/understanding their transmissions so my decoder appears to be okay.

I have had the same complaint from at least 2 different people so that would lead me to suspect it is on my end with my tx function.

Fred

[mbrun]

Thank you for the responses.
The issue, as explained to me (by those I try to communicate with), is that there is some sort of cyclic interference that makes it so they only hear/understand about every fourth word I say.
I have no trouble hearing/understanding their transmissions so my decoder appears to be okay.
I have had the same complaint from at least 2 different people so that would lead me to suspect it is on my end with my tx function.
Fred

You have access to another radio you can use to communicate with your 1000G? If so, perhaps you can have a family member operate the 1000G while you operate a different model. That would give you first hand experience in hearing whatever the anomaly might be. Yes, it is certainly possible that there is something wrong with the radio, but it may not have anything to do with the tones. It could be something else all together. It is going to take some troubleshooting track down the issue.

Once you are on the other end using a different radio, experiment with communications with and without tones. Experiment at different power levels, different mic positions and different voice levels. What you are looking for is a clear set of conditions where the issue always exists and where it always does not exist.

I have heard of tones and decoders not being accurate and not doing their job well, but I cannot say I have heard of tones causing the symptoms as described.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[Guest Fred WRNT890]

Thanks Michael.

I have a pair of Wouxun KG-905Gs that I can do some additional testing with.

Fred

 

[mbrun]

Thanks Michael.
I have a pair of Wouxun KG-905Gs that I can do some additional testing with.
Fred
 

Please be sure to report back.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[Guest Fred WRNT890]

Did a quick test with my 905G and 1000G.

No issues with 136.5hz tone on ch16 or ch17.

Will try again with one of the operator that I had the issue with previously.

Fred

[Guest Fred WRNT890]

Apparently this issue may be related to how the tones are encoded/decoded.

When I use my 1000G or 905G with certain tones the transmissions are not intelligible (seems worse with the 1000G) when received on a Midland 400 (not sure if that is the correct model he is using). 

However, if I use a Motorola radio he has no problem using the Midland.

If he uses a Baofeng (not sure which model) he has no trouble when I use either Wouxun or Motorola.

Looks like whatever is going on may well be related to the different encode/decocde processes used by different manufacturers.

Fred

[mbrun]

Your comments make me wonder whether we you have a wide-band narrow-band incompatibility thing going on. All Midland GMRS radios are narrow-band out of the box. If a repeater is in the mix, perhaps it too is set for narrow-band (yes it is possible). Try changing the channels you are testing with on your 1000G and 905G to narrowband and try again. Note that the wide-band, narrow-band settings of the Wouxun radios are channel specific.

Also, make sure that you do not have the compander turned on the 1000G. That is a useless feature in GMRS except when you communicating between like-model radios (which is seldom the case) and may actually prove to be an aggravator under the current circumstances.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[Guest Fred WRNT890]

Thanks Michael.

The wide/narrow band may explain it.  We did talk about that during our testing last night but didn't have time to dive into it.

No repeaters in the mix and compander is NOT enabled.

We'll have time to test more in a day or two.

Thanks for your help!

Fred

[Guest Fred WRNT890]

After some additional testing this issue does not appear to be due to the wide/narrow band setting.

We were able to identify several CTCSS tones that do work so we will stick to tones that do not have the issue.

No idea what is causing it but I think we're done trying to figure it out.

Thanks for all the help!

Fred

[mbrun]

Fair enough. It is entirely possible the some tones are off-frequency just a little, the receiver decoders are off a little, or there is some noise present that is making it difficult for the decoder to do its job well on certain frequencies. There are lots of codes available and all you need is one that works well for you.

Enjoy.

BTW Fred, get registered and join the forum with an official user name if you can. You are still listed as “guest” on my end.

Best Regards,


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[Guest Fred WRNT890]

Thanks Michael,

I registered after my initial post.  My username is FMyers.

I probably didn't do something correctly because when I posted in this thread after logging in it did not seem to recognize that I was a registered user.

I just chalked it up to being a 'guest' forum and continued as I began the thread.

Fred

 

 

[Guest Fmyers]

Thought I'd try a post using my username to see if it show me as a registered user.

I'm slow in the uptake sometimes...

Fred

 

[RayP]

I have noted issues with several Wouxun ht's regarding CTCSS and frankly, am getting a bit discouraged with what was my favorite brand.  I had several 905G's that would not encode or decode the same tones between the same model radios on simplex.  One would not decode a repeater operating with a 210.7 PL.  As such, the KG905G is now on my do-not-buy list.

More recently, a wide coverage repeater owned and maintained by a very competent land mobile technician was chopping in and out of the decoders on a KG935G+, KGS88G, and KG1000G+, each at a different location and each owned by a different person.  If CTCSS decode was disabled, the problem stopped.  If received on another brand radio, the chopping was not present with its CTCSS decoder turned on.  This issue was brought to the attention of the repeater owner a few hours earlier and persisted after he thoroughly checked his output frequency and PL tone frequency.  The problem tone?  141.3.    Unless and until BTWR forces Wouxun to do better, I will not be purchasing anymore Wouxun GMRS radios in the foreseeable future.  I have literally bought several thousand dollars worth of Wouxun radios and accessories for myself and for friends, but find this crummy QC to be unacceptable.

[Guest wm1]

I have a similar problem here. I can TX, but not RX CTCSS 250.3 Hz on some KG-S88Gs. My Yaesu and MotoTRBO radios work great, but Wouxun has an issue with this CTCSS code. I’m assuming there’s some issue, because I’d bet an $800+ radio is more likely to have gotten the implementation right (and the Yaesu works with it fine as well).

[nokones]

Typical CCR with the usual problems they inherit. 

[Sshannon]

On 1/19/2024 at 10:33 PM, Guest wm1 said:

I have a similar problem here. I can TX, but not RX CTCSS 250.3 Hz on some KG-S88Gs. My Yaesu and MotoTRBO radios work great, but Wouxun has an issue with this CTCSS code. I’m assuming there’s some issue, because I’d bet an $800+ radio is more likely to have gotten the implementation right (and the Yaesu works with it fine as well).

Just leave the receive CTCSS open. I know it doesn't fix the issue, but it'll allow you to operate without issues. 

[WRXB215]

13 hours ago, nokones said:

Typical CCR with the usual problems they inherit.

I must be lucky, I've never had any problems with my CCRs.

[WRYZ926]

3 minutes ago, WRXB215 said:

I must be lucky, I've never had any problems with my CCRs.

I haven't had any issues with my CCR radios either. In fact I got rid of all my Midland radios and replaced them with Wouxun radios. The Wouxun radios are built better and work better.

And even the top Japanese radios either built with Chinese parts or built in China. And I guess everyone's Apple or Android phones must be junk since they are made in China too.

[Guest wm1]

On 1/21/2024 at 6:27 AM, Sshannon said:

Just leave the receive CTCSS open. I know it doesn't fix the issue, but it'll allow you to operate without issues. 

This is really not practical for us, but not a bad suggestion. We use them in very, very crowded environments with many people sharing a channel. Last weekend we had 10+ people per channel (big ski resort without any cell coverage).

I have a couple different brands, and just use the radios that interoperate now. My friends use Midland, Rocky Talkie, BCA, etc, so it’s important to me that whatever channel they pick for the day “just works.”

To another comment - I know CCRs work most of the time (I’m an amateur extra and have some Baofengs, too ), but we really rely on these at the resort and backcountry, and need them to work. We also don’t always have the luxury of testing in the parking area if we have different start times. IMO one of the biggest differences in CCRs and name brands is QC to make sure they’re following standards properly (yes there are other differences, but this one matters the most to me).

[Sshannon]

1 hour ago, Guest wm1 said:

This is really not practical for us, but not a bad suggestion. We use them in very, very crowded environments with many people sharing a channel. Last weekend we had 10+ people per channel (big ski resort without any cell coverage).

I absolutely agree that in your situation leaving the receive tone off would cause problems. 
But if you have that many people actively sharing each channel, even with tones to prevent the constantly breaking squelch, you will have RF interference. Tones don’t prevent that. Ideally you need something with more channels. 

[Guest wm1]

11 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

I absolutely agree that in your situation leaving the receive tone off would cause problems. 
But if you have that many people actively sharing each channel, even with tones to prevent the constantly breaking squelch, you will have RF interference. Tones don’t prevent that. Ideally you need something with more channels. 

I’ve evaluated a bunch of options. 900 MHz FHSS seems nice, but pricey.

With my immediate friends/family, I can do a DMR radio rental on reserved frequencies (we have an insider deal).

GMRS just happens to be the least common denominator in the backcountry ski world, so we often end up using that. I just unfortunately found out that our Wouxun radios appear out of spec for certain CTCSS codes (5 other brands worked fine, so just making an assumption).

Thanks everyone for the comments! This has been a great discussion.