Group Ham License?

[PartsMan]

I was told recently that an entire BSA (formerly Boy Scouts) council had a Ham license.

Could that be?

[MichaelLAX]

They probably had a Club License with its own callsign.

Licensed Hams could supervise and run the equipment and allow unlicensed Boy Scouts to talk over the equipment, using the Club's callsign and not have to use the individual callsign of the supervisor.

[gortex2]

As stated its a club license. Our SAR team has one that is used on our APRS stuff. Still need to be a licensed HAM to get the club license.

 

[PartsMan]

I was offered a Uv-5r to use as a volunteer during an event.

I had casually mentioned that I was not licensed to use it.

Still sounds a little fishy to me.

[tweiss3]

https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/amateur-radio-service/club-stations

 

There are a pretty decent set of rules to get a club license, all intended to keep a person liable for any operation under that call. The operator using that call must have permission to do so, and either have their license, or be operating under another licensed ham operator (they have to be present to maintain control of the station).

[MichaelLAX]

On 3/9/2022 at 9:50 AM, PartsMan said:

I was offered a Uv-5r to use as a volunteer during an event.

What kind of event? Do you know which frequency it was set to transmit on?

Perhaps they were using them set to 2 watts on an FRS or MURS channel; not technically in compliance with the FCC rules for FRS/MURS, but probably not that much in variance with the FRS/MURS rules to cause the FCC to track them down.

[PartsMan]

It was just a scout gathering/campout. No radio training going on.

I don't know what frequency they were on. I was scanning GMRS and never heard them.

[wrci350]

Whoever told you that was either misinformed or misspoke.  As others have stated, it is possible for a club to get a call sign that can be used for contests, field days, or even things like attending a camporee and letting Scouts try out ham radio but all operation must be done under the direct supervision of someone who holds their own amateur radio license.  It's not a "hand every volunteer a radio and away you go" situation at all.

If you were scanning the GMRS/FRS channels (with no squelch tone set) and never heard them, that tells us they were not using FRS.

As has been suggested, they could have been using a MURS channel (no license required) although a Baofeng isn't a type-accepted radio for MURS.

There are also many Scout councils that have Part 90 licenses for operations at their camps and other large events, and it *would* be legal to use a Baofeng "Part 90" radio for that, although I for one wouldn't recommend it.  I did a quick search of the FCC database and didn't see anything associated with the council name but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't have a license.

[WRKC935]

Rules on a Club call still require a club member with a valid ham license to act as a control operator for all transmissions.

Meaning someone with a ham license needs to be present when people are talking on the radio using the club call.

So the bigger question is what is the call sign you speak of?  Assuming it's a call ending in BSA.  Once you know what the call is you can look it up. 

The call will be linked to whoever originally applied for it, or at least who the trustee of the call is now.  SO, it can only be one of a few calls to be a valid callsign.

Hams of course will know that it has to begin with a K N A or W. At least if it's an American call sign.  I don't believe that ham calls can start with anything else.

It will also have a 0-9 in it and it will be a single digit followed by the B S A letters.  But ham calls have to follow a pattern that the FCC set down long ago. 

You could do a partial call sign search on the FCC web site or possibly QRZ to find the call and then look it up on the FCC web site and see if it's an individual call or a club call.  Once you do that you will know for sure.  If you have a troop and want to use the call I would assume that you could contact your district office or the national office once you find the name of the individuals that are the trustee's or just contact them directly in order to gain permission.  I would NOT advise you just use the call sign without first getting the OK from the trustee's however.  And of course if it's an individual call, you can't get permission to use it without them being present during your operations.

 

[MichaelLAX]

9 hours ago, WRKC935 said:

You could do a partial call sign search on the FCC web site...

What if you wanted a Club Callsign for Volunteers UnLimited? 

[WRKC935]

On 3/16/2022 at 6:46 AM, MichaelLAX said:

What if you wanted a Club Callsign for Volunteers UnLimited? 

Wow dude, you're hilarious.  My guess is that it wouldn't start with KB8 since that's MY call sign.

Do you really think that's funny????  Or is this yet another attempt to bump your post count or just to see if you can get a rise out of someone?

 

I am thinking that you specifically said a while back you were gonna NOT reply to my posts and stay in your lane.  What happened with that?  Decided that you needed to entertain yourself again and try to screw with me?  I suppose that everyone needs a hobby. 

[PartsMan]

Oh I did not use the radio and don't plan to.

I never heard anybody use a call sign.

I was just curious if there was any way they were within the law.

[MichaelLAX]

8 hours ago, WRKC935 said:

Wow dude, you're hilarious.

Cents of Humor! 

And that’s Mr Dude to you, Kieth!

[WRKC935]

5 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:

Cents of Humor! 

And that’s Mr Dude to you, Kieth!

Using Mister would mean the use of some level of respect.  So that obviously ain't happening.

And that's how many times you have spelled my name wrong?  And then EXPECT me to show YOU respect. 

You're attempts at being a comedian here are coming up short. I guess as long as you think it's funny in your mind then at least someone is amused.

[WRKC935]

6 hours ago, PartsMan said:

Oh I did not use the radio and don't plan to.

I never heard anybody use a call sign.

I was just curious if there was any way they were within the law.

If they were using anything outside of FRS without IDing their station then no, they were not operating within the law.

HAM requires you ID every 10 minutes.  Other services the timing is different but they all still require that you ID.  That would apply to any licensed service.

FRS and CB do not require or have a license, and therefore you can't technically ID because no call sign is issued to be used for that purpose.

[wrci350]

7 hours ago, PartsMan said:

Oh I did not use the radio and don't plan to.

I never heard anybody use a call sign.

I was just curious if there was any way they were within the law.

@PartsManOK in an earlier post, you stated that you were scanning GMRS/FRS and "never heard them".  So did you hear them talking (and not using a call sign) or did you not hear them at all?  Were you ever told the call sign of this alleged license?

[wrci350]

52 minutes ago, WRKC935 said:

If they were using anything outside of FRS without IDing their station then no, they were not operating within the law.

@WRKC935, did you read my post from March 10th?  Or maybe you are ignoring my posts?

Either way, that statement is incorrect.

MURS, like FRS, is licensed by rule.  No call signs.  Is a Baofeng type-accepted for MURS?  No, but that's a different issue, and not much of one IMHO.

It's also quite possible that the council has a Part 90 license, which also does not require individuals to identify with a callsign (since they do not have one).  The fact that my 5 minute search for a license associated with that council name didn't find one doesn't mean they don't have one.  They could be operating on a "rent-a-radio" system, for all we know.

So FRS is not the only 'legal' option.

What we DO know is that there is no amateur radio license that would cover all the volunteers at any event (Scouting or otherwise), so whoever told the OP either misspoke or was misinformed.

[MichaelLAX]

16 hours ago, WRKC935 said:

And that's how many times you have spelled my name wrong?  And then EXPECT me to show YOU respect. 

On 3/14/2022 at 3:48 AM, WRKC935 said:

Yep,,, this is a good reason to not post at night.  You don't see everything you need to, say something wrong and Micheal gets to up his post count.

 

If transposing the vowels of your name were that important to you; you wouldn't have transposed mine! 

DUH!

[MichaelLAX]

6 hours ago, wrci350 said:

@WRKC935, did you read my post from March 10th?  Or maybe you are ignoring my posts?

Either way, that statement is incorrect.

Not his strong suit!

[PartsMan]

13 hours ago, wrci350 said:

@PartsManOK in an earlier post, you stated that you were scanning GMRS/FRS and "never heard them".  So did you hear them talking (and not using a call sign) or did you not hear them at all?  Were you ever told the call sign of this alleged license?

Yes.

I did not here them on my radio scanning GMRS frequencies.

I did hear them in person in the same campsite not using a call sign.

[WRPR990]

I am a member, and the current president of the Marshall County Amateur Radio Association. My call sign is KM4JZJ, and the club call is KI4HUS. When we do field day as a club, we always use the club call. If we do other contests as a club, we use the club call. Groups, such as church's, scouts, VFW's, schools, and so on, that are not ham clubs do not have a call sign. With that said, if those said groups start or have a ham club, such as some schools do, then the ham club within that organization, such as schools, can have a call sign.  

[WRPR990]

On 3/9/2022 at 10:20 AM, MichaelLAX said:

They probably had a Club License with its own callsign.

Licensed Hams could supervise and run the equipment and allow unlicensed Boy Scouts to talk over the equipment, using the Club's callsign and not have to use the individual callsign of the supervisor.

They do that all the time at major scouting events such as a jamboree. They will usually have it listed in the QST magazine in the special events page. I have worked a few and received QSL cards from them.