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new to gmrs


WRNQ656
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good afternoon...

fairly new to gmrs...bought a btech gmrs v2...everyone says i am loud and clear...and i can hit local repeaters...my trouble is that i cant hear on it...no receive at all...the main repeater channel that i am on is 462.600 +5.0 tone 141.3   i have tried tx tone and rx tone...have no luck any which way...

i also have a rugged radio gmr2...and can talk and receive on the above repeater just fine..although i have been told audio is on the quiet side...i did learn that rugged radios gmr2 is proprietary programming...meaning no chirp for it...have to send back to rugged to get programmed...or buy their software and cable for $50...seems steep to me for it

i have attached a copy of my chirp file for anyone to review...for the btech...

 

thanks for any help

73's

Brian

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i have tried both ways...if you look in chirp file...channel 25 and channel 101 are the same...except for the tone or tsql...

 

i have sent this radio back to btech...and just got it back...cant imagine that both radios are faulty...

 

i have even tried stock antenna....and nagoya 771g...even thought my house may be in a dead space...so i have taken a walk...and nothing...i know there was radio traffic...because i brought along my rugged radio gmr2...and could hear chatter...but nothing on btech...

 

has me baffled...

 

Brian

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Start simple:

 

If in simplex, someone transmits within a half mile of you with no squelch tones set in your radio, do you hear them?

 

If in simplex, someone transmits using a squelch tone, and you have the same programmed into your receiver, do you hear them?

 

If in duplex at a repeater output frequency, with no squelch tone set, do you ever hear anyone hitting the repeater?

 

If in duplex at a repeater output frequency, with no squelch tone set, plug your receiver into a digital recorder (your phone, your computer, or a handheld digital recorder), or set a digital recorder next to its speaker. Use VOX mode. Take another radio 150 feet away and transmit to that repeater using the correct squelch tone to open the repeater. Does your receiver receive it? (do you hear a recording when you get back to listen to your recorder?)

 

Now swap the radios and do the same. Did it still work? ...again, with the transmitting radio set with appropriate squelch tones to open the repeater.

 

Now program squelch tones for the output frequency on the receiving radio and record. Again go 150 feet away with the transmitter. Do you record anything?

 

Notice how at each step we're trying to add only one additional thing that could go wrong. By the time we arrive at the final test, we're fully configured for typical repeater use.  If you find it fails at one of those stages, you at least have eliminated the other layers as an issue. It's unlikely though possible that your radio doesn't transmit at all, or doesn't receive at all.  I once had a Motorola T355R that, for whatever reason, lost its ability to transmit. So while it's unlikely, it's possible.

 

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On 8/26/2022 at 8:20 PM, WRQW589 said:

Start simple:

 

If in simplex, someone transmits within a half mile of you with no squelch tones set in your radio, do you hear them?

 

If in simplex, someone transmits using a squelch tone, and you have the same programmed into your receiver, do you hear them?

 

If in duplex at a repeater output frequency, with no squelch tone set, do you ever hear anyone hitting the repeater?

 

If in duplex at a repeater output frequency, with no squelch tone set, plug your receiver into a digital recorder (your phone, your computer, or a handheld digital recorder), or set a digital recorder next to its speaker. Use VOX mode. Take another radio 150 feet away and transmit to that repeater using the correct squelch tone to open the repeater. Does your receiver receive it? (do you hear a recording when you get back to listen to your recorder?)

 

Now swap the radios and do the same. Did it still work? ...again, with the transmitting radio set with appropriate squelch tones to open the repeater.

 

Now program squelch tones for the output frequency on the receiving radio and record. Again go 150 feet away with the transmitter. Do you record anything?

 

Notice how at each step we're trying to add only one additional thing that could go wrong. By the time we arrive at the final test, we're fully configured for typical repeater use.  If you find it fails at one of those stages, you at least have eliminated the other layers as an issue. It's unlikely though possible that your radio doesn't transmit at all, or doesn't receive at all.  I once had a Motorola T355R that, for whatever reason, lost its ability to transmit. So while it's unlikely, it's possible.

 

thanks for the answers...i tried this briefly tonight...minus 1 exception...i had radios only about 5 feet apart...

if i try simplex on gmrs channel 1...i can talk radio to radio...with no codes...if i put in some codes...even if they are wrong...i can still talk radio to radio...kinda weird...

i go to a repeater channel 17 with codes...in both radios...i hear nothing ...i know i am hitting repeater...i hear the tail squawk...my rugged radio is basically pre-programmed...only thing i can change is codes...cant change any frequencies...without their software and their cables..(which i do not have) so i can only change codes based off of a chart...( to match them)...i know rugged radio is working ok...i can hear and talk...(it only seems to be stuck in narrow band only)...i have had communication with it and have gotten audio is a little low...

but with btech gmrs v2...i have gotten great audio results...just cannot hear anything...i even took it with me on a trip to shreveport to try a completely different area...and still nothing...i sent this radio back and they sent me another one...and i cant fathom that both are bad...i have even tried a mag mount antenna on my truck...and funny thing is...when i came home today...and was parked in my driveway...and unhooking the mobile antenna...it has a pl 259 on mag mount...and i have an adapater for a so239 on one end..and nmo on the other...i actually heard some conversations...as i was taking the antenna off..and adapter was barely in the radio...

which leads me to trying a tiger tail...or maybe even grounding the antenna to a bolt on radio...

i am just at a total loss here...

would even be willing to meet up with anyone in the dallas/ft worth area so they can throw their knowledge at it...any takers???

getting desperate here...lol

thanks for anyones help...

Brian

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18 hours ago, WRNQ656 said:

thanks for the answers...i tried this briefly tonight...minus 1 exception...i had radios only about 5 feet apart...

 

 

 

Bingo.

 

There is a reason I said you need to be spaced at a greater distance.

 

If you transmit to a repeater, and hope to hear it on a receiving radio, you may not hear anything on the receiving radio at close proximity.

 

WHY?

 

The transmission in close proximity overloads the receiving radio such that it is essentially deaf.

 

Imagine you're at a Rolling Stones concert.  You shout to your friend who is also at the concert. He won't hear you.

 

Your radio transmits on some 467 frequency. The repeater 20 miles away receives that and retransmits it on a 462 frequency. The receiving radio, five feet away from the transmitting radio is totally overwhelmed by the transmission that is occuring on 467.xxxx, and cannot hear the transmission coming from 20 miles away on 462.xxxx

 

This phenomenon is called desensing. The output of the radio in close proximity is overloading or desensitizing the receiver in the radio that you hope to hear the distant repeater on.

 

You need to get someone to listen on the receiving radio while you go a block away with the transmitting radio. Or do what I do; set up a VOX digital recorder plugged into the audio output of your receiving radio. Then you can walk a block away, test, and when you get back home you can listen to the results.  It is entirely possible that this close proximity is not your issue. But it's such an easy thing to eliminate, and until you do, you don't really know, and we're all just chasing suggestions because diagnostic steps were skipped.

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1 hour ago, WRQW589 said:

Bingo.

 

There is a reason I said you need to be spaced at a greater distance.

 

If you transmit to a repeater, and hope to hear it on a receiving radio, you may not hear anything on the receiving radio at close proximity.

 

WHY?

 

The transmission in close proximity overloads the receiving radio such that it is essentially deaf.

 

Imagine you're at a Rolling Stones concert.  You shout to your friend who is also at the concert. He won't hear you.

 

Your radio transmits on some 467 frequency. The repeater 20 miles away receives that and retransmits it on a 462 frequency. The receiving radio, five feet away from the transmitting radio is totally overwhelmed by the transmission that is occuring on 467.xxxx, and cannot hear the transmission coming from 20 miles away on 462.xxxx

 

This phenomenon is called desensing. The output of the radio in close proximity is overloading or desensitizing the receiver in the radio that you hope to hear the distant repeater on.

 

You need to get someone to listen on the receiving radio while you go a block away with the transmitting radio. Or do what I do; set up a VOX digital recorder plugged into the audio output of your receiving radio. Then you can walk a block away, test, and when you get back home you can listen to the results.  It is entirely possible that this close proximity is not your issue. But it's such an easy thing to eliminate, and until you do, you don't really know, and we're all just chasing suggestions because diagnostic steps were skipped.

thank you...will give this a try

Brian

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On 8/30/2022 at 4:07 PM, WRQW589 said:

Bingo.

 

There is a reason I said you need to be spaced at a greater distance.

 

If you transmit to a repeater, and hope to hear it on a receiving radio, you may not hear anything on the receiving radio at close proximity.

 

WHY?

 

The transmission in close proximity overloads the receiving radio such that it is essentially deaf.

 

Imagine you're at a Rolling Stones concert.  You shout to your friend who is also at the concert. He won't hear you.

 

Your radio transmits on some 467 frequency. The repeater 20 miles away receives that and retransmits it on a 462 frequency. The receiving radio, five feet away from the transmitting radio is totally overwhelmed by the transmission that is occuring on 467.xxxx, and cannot hear the transmission coming from 20 miles away on 462.xxxx

 

This phenomenon is called desensing. The output of the radio in close proximity is overloading or desensitizing the receiver in the radio that you hope to hear the distant repeater on.

 

You need to get someone to listen on the receiving radio while you go a block away with the transmitting radio. Or do what I do; set up a VOX digital recorder plugged into the audio output of your receiving radio. Then you can walk a block away, test, and when you get back home you can listen to the results.  It is entirely possible that this close proximity is not your issue. But it's such an easy thing to eliminate, and until you do, you don't really know, and we're all just chasing suggestions because diagnostic steps were skipped.

quick question...when you say deaf....does that mean damage to radio...or just temporary deafness....i have taken the btech radio on some trips...and essentially had zero noise...nothing...maybe there was no traffic...but i have tried all sorts of local channels to those areas...and still nothing...just wondering if i permanently damaged radio...its just crazy how i have zero traffic...unless its simplex...but my rugged radio hears all kinds of chatter on repeaters..thanks for all your help

Brian

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If you are really close together, you might overload the receiver front-end circuits (consider the worst case -- using a coax jumper to connect the two radios together... Receiver is looking for microvolt signal levels and you just pumped multiple volts into it).

Desense is just a case of trying to filter out out-of-band (467 vs 462) signals that are stronger than the desired in-band signal. A wide coverage front-end may apply AGC to the input to reduce the undesired signal to a level it can process -- but that makes the desired signal even weaker.

As for "zero noise" -- did you try pushing the MONITOR button? That forces the squelch to open letting any signal through. Having too high a squelch setting will block all but the strongest signals.`

Can't help much more -- my BTech V2 doesn't have the specified power (don't think it makes it to 3.5W, while the "2W" V1 registered nearer to 2.5W), but otherwise operates okay.

Hearing signals while the antenna is partway off makes me suspect a cold-solder joint on the antenna socket and radio circuit board, where fully attaching the antenna is pulling the socket away from the board, breaking connection. (Note: SMA connectors are rated for 500 cycles, you don't want to be doing too many antenna swaps)

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19 hours ago, WRNQ656 said:

quick question...when you say deaf....does that mean damage to radio...or just temporary deafness....i have taken the btech radio on some trips...and essentially had zero noise...nothing...maybe there was no traffic...but i have tried all sorts of local channels to those areas...and still nothing...just wondering if i permanently damaged radio...its just crazy how i have zero traffic...unless its simplex...but my rugged radio hears all kinds of chatter on repeaters..thanks for all your help

Brian

Temporary. So while your transmitting radio is transmitting on the repeater input frequency, the amount of RF energy in close proximity to the receiving radio makes it so it cannot detect the distant repeater's output even though it's on a different frequency. When you stop transmitting, the nearby receiver can hear again, but by that time the repeater is done transmitting too. You may hear a kerchunk, though.

 

When you are vacuuming you can't hear another person 20 feet away talking at normal conversation level either, even though the vacuum may be producing noise at a different frequency than the person speaking. When you shut off the vacuum, you can hear the person speaking again, assuming your hearing was ok to begin with.

 

The issue right now seems to be that we don't really know whether you have a bad radio, or a good radio with incorrect usage. By separating the transmitter and receiver, and having a friend listen on the receiving radio a block away (or recording the receiving radio, as I do), you can eliminate one of the possible issues. Remember, other issues could be squelch tones set wrong, or even a bad transmitter or bad receiver. But we have to strip away all the "what ifs" that we can control so that we're only left with the ones that lead to the conclusion that the radios are, or are not working at all.

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