Wouxun radios

[MichaelLAX]

The Rule was inartfully drafted.

2 hours ago, Sshannon said:

nothing more and nothing less.

Under your approach to interpreting this rule, hand-helds would have no ability to transmit on the 462/467 main channels, since they are not mentioned in subsections (1) or (2); but we clearly know this is not the case.

We know explicitly that hand-helds cannot transmit move than 0.5 watts on the 467 interstitials nor more than 5 watts on the 462 interstitials.

and

The only radios allowed to transmit up to 50 watts are the mobile, repeater and base stations transmitting on the 462/467 main channels and hand-helds are not given that explicit permission.

Hence hand-helds are limited to 5 watts on the 462/467 main channels.

[SteveShannon]

18 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:

The Rule was inartfully drafted.

Under your approach to interpreting this rule, hand-helds would have no ability to transmit on the 462/467 main channels, since they are not mentioned in subsections (1) or (2); but we clearly know this is not the case.

We know explicitly that hand-helds cannot transmit move than 0.5 watts on the 467 interstitials nor more than 5 watts on the 462 interstitials.

and

The only radios allowed to transmit up to 50 watts are the mobile, repeater and base stations transmitting on the 462/467 main channels and hand-helds are not given that explicit permission.

Hence hand-helds are limited to 5 watts on the 462/467 main channels.

I agree that there seems to be a section missing, but you’re wrong in your interpretation. 95.1767 doesn’t enable station types; it creates power limitations, and it neglected to establish limits for handhelds on the main channels, unless handhelds are covered as a subset of mobile stations, which isn’t consistent with how handhelds are listed in the other sections in 95.1767.
The section on channels (95.1763? I’m away from the computer) is where station types are allowed on specific channels. Handhelds are listed there for the main channels, as I recall. 

[KAF6045]

I strongly suspect the limit is imposed by the RF Exposure calculations: HTs are either body worn (with speaker/mic) or held within a few inches of the head -- SAR measurements are done to ensure the RF energy is below the limit for the frequency in use... In the most sensitive frequency bands, that necessitates a lower power.

[MichaelLAX]

2 hours ago, Sshannon said:

... but you’re wrong in your interpretation. 

Wrong in my interpretation that the power limit for HTs on GMRS is 5 watts?

[WRUU653]

Seems like we've been down this road recently

Regs don't list an actual power limit for HTs on the 462-467 main channels - Page 3 - Technical Disc… 2.webloc

[MichaelLAX]

Perhaps, but I will posit this question:

If the Regs do not prohibit HTs above 5 watts for GMRS, how come no one is selling them?!?

I'll rest with my interpretation that the power limit for HTs on GMRS is 5 watts

[WRUU653]

I agree that the regs don't come out and say you can't have more than 5 watts for an HT. Then I thought at least for now it dosn't matter because at least for GMRS no one is making a HT that has more than 5 watts...

Then I remembered this, a photo (I don't remember where I saw it) Isn't this a 20 watt HT? I think they call it the DB-20G

come on now that's funny 

[MichaelLAX]

TRUE: but no one else knows why it's funny!!! 

[SteveShannon]

8 hours ago, KAF6045 said:

I strongly suspect the limit is imposed by the RF Exposure calculations: HTs are either body worn (with speaker/mic) or held within a few inches of the head -- SAR measurements are done to ensure the RF energy is below the limit for the frequency in use... In the most sensitive frequency bands, that necessitates a lower power.

I think you’re probably right.

[WRUU653]

9 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:

TRUE: but no one else knows why it's funny!!! 

I’ll let ‘‘em in on the joke. This is a photo from one of MichaelLax’s other post. 

[MichaelLAX]

17 hours ago, Sshannon said:

I agree that there seems to be a section missing, but you’re wrong in your interpretation. 95.1767 doesn’t enable station types; it creates power limitations, and it neglected to establish limits for handhelds on the main channels, unless handhelds are covered as a subset of mobile stations, which isn’t consistent with how handhelds are listed in the other sections in 95.1767.
The section on channels (95.1763? I’m away from the computer) is where station types are allowed on specific channels. Handhelds are listed there for the main channels, as I recall. 

Ok, so if I am wrong in my interpretation, what is your conclusion of the power limitation on HTs? 50 watts?

[SteveShannon]

2 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:

Ok, so if I am wrong in my interpretation, what is your conclusion of the power limitation on HTs? 50 watts?

There is no set limit specifically for GMRS HTs as far as I can tell. They might inherit the 50 watt limit of mobile stations. 
But I agree with @KAF6045that SAR exposure limits would create a practical limit. In reading through an ARRL article about exposure limits, 5.3 (I think) watts is the calculated max power for a 70 cm handheld in order to maintain a safe exposure level. 
 

[MichaelLAX]

There is an underlying rule of legal interpretation that where there is ambiguity, the law does not support an unreasonable interpretation.

It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect that the FCC in Part 95e would allow handheld GMRS radios to have an unlimited power limit (irrespective of what the exposure limits might be).

A more reasonable interpretation of Section 95.1767(a) is that handhelds are limited to 5 watts, as specifically mentioned in subsections (b) and (c) of that rule.

So if you operated a 60 watt homemade handheld GMRS radio, and were charged with violating Section 95.1767, you could not defend yourself on the basis that the Rule is silent on the wattage limit for handhelds.

See, United States of America, Ex Rel. Phalp, et al. v. Lincare Holdings, Inc. et al., Case No. 16-10532, 2017 WL 2296878 (11th Cir. May 26, 2017)

Do you still think I am wrong in my interpretation?

 

[UncleYoda]

3 hours ago, Sshannon said:

There is no set limit specifically for GMRS HTs as far as I can tell. They might inherit the 50 watt limit of mobile stations. But I agree with @KAF6045

Not specifically referencing power limits, but this is wording I got in a response from the folks in charge, if it helps:

Handheld portables are a subset of mobile stations and must comply with any applicable mobile station requirements and any additional requirements for handheld portable units.

[SteveShannon]

8 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

Not specifically referencing power limits, but this is wording I got in a response from the folks in charge, if it helps:

Handheld portables are a subset of mobile stations and must comply with any applicable mobile station requirements and any additional requirements for handheld portable units.

That does help! Thanks!

[catbrigade]

8 hours ago, Sshannon said:

There is no set limit specifically for GMRS HTs as far as I can tell. They might inherit the 50 watt limit of mobile stations. 
But I agree with @KAF6045that SAR exposure limits would create a practical limit. In reading through an ARRL article about exposure limits, 5.3 (I think) watts is the calculated max power for a 70 cm handheld in order to maintain a safe exposure level. 
 

I seem to recall one of the manufacturer reps saying somewhere (can't remember where) that they couldn't do much more than 5 watts and meet SAR limits.

[gearjunkie]

On 12/8/2022 at 11:45 PM, WRTR557 said:

Can anyone recommend a GMRS HT i currently own a WOUXUN KG1000G 50 WATT mobile and i love it. and now i want to purchase handy talkies ive pretty much decided on the WOUXUN KG 935 G as im impressed with they're radios so my only deciding factor is output wattage. i think  the KG 935 G is a 5 watt radio correct me if im wrong. Are there other gmrs handy talkies with higher output power. im willing to sacrafice  the WOUXUN ease of use and functionality as a GMRS radio for more power.

thank you

greg

The 935 is a great radio and a lot people say that. It's my belief the uv9gx is a much better radio. Or the uv9g pro.

 

[WRCZ387]

On 12/8/2022 at 11:45 PM, WRTR557 said:

Can anyone recommend a GMRS HT? i currently own a Wouxun KG1000G 50 watt mobile and i love it. and now i want to purchase handy talkies. i've pretty much decided on the Wouxun KG 935G as i'm impressed with their radios so my only deciding factor is output wattage. i think the KG 935G is a 5 watt radio correct me if i'm wrong. Are there other gmrs handy talkies with higher output power. i'm willing to sacrifice the Wouxun ease of use and functionality as a GMRS radio for more power.

thank you

greg

If you need or want more range, instead of higher power output, look at better antennas

Your antenna is what gets your signal out, & brings the other stations signals in to you

It doesn't matter how much power you're pushing, if you don't have a good antenna, whatever power you do have will either go nowhere or not as far as it could, & will be wasted, & you won't get the range that you want or need, & you may not receive the other stations as well as you could

Stock antennas on h-t's are generally 'OK', good for close in work, or if you're not a zillion miles away from the repeater

Many users [myself included] have upgraded their h-t antennas with the Nagoya NA-771G which is tuned specifically for the GMRS channels, it's on the long side at 15 inches, but the improvement you gain is worth it

[jbkalla]

On 12/8/2022 at 9:45 PM, WRTR557 said:

Can anyone recommend a GMRS HT i currently own a WOUXUN KG1000G 50 WATT mobile and i love it. and now i want to purchase handy talkies ive pretty much decided on the WOUXUN KG 935 G as im impressed with they're radios so my only deciding factor is output wattage. i think  the KG 935 G is a 5 watt radio correct me if im wrong. Are there other gmrs handy talkies with higher output power. im willing to sacrafice  the WOUXUN ease of use and functionality as a GMRS radio for more power.

thank you

greg

I agree with many of the users that the KG-935G Plus is a good option.  It's easier and more fun to use than the KG-UV9G, but the superheterodyne receiver makes me reach for the UV9G often.  The display is way better on the 935G, which I also prefer.  If they made the UV9G with an OLED display, I think it would become my recommendation, but as it stands, I think I'd recommend the 935G Plus.

[pcradio]

On 2/23/2023 at 12:20 PM, WRWG777 said:

I was told right off the bat as a new guy on the block to buy the KG-UV9GX  

That's good advice. But there is value in buying a bunch of junk and learning. If you go straight to the top, you don't know "why" things are better.

[WRUU653]

1 hour ago, pcradio said:

there is value in buying a bunch of junk and learning. If you go straight to the top, you don't know "why" things are better.

I agree with that. My first radios were Baofengs and I got them dialed in pretty nice. I now have some Wouxun radios and yes they are better out of the box.  I do feel everything is easier in some part from the understanding I gained working my way through the cheaper radios. It can help you decide what you want from a more expensive radio and it's nice to have the cheap ones around, less worry if you think you might be engaging in activities that might damage a radio. Of course I find it rewarding to fight my way through the cheaper radio so yeah I'm broken that way.