Orlando reception 8.5 miles on simplex?

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

Testing my base unit with my son. He was talking to me on the repeater no problem of course. But he called out to me on the Simplex Channel accidentality that  we use in our neighborhood  and I could hear him 8.5 miles away. I was on my mobile. Orlando has many things in the way and on average I get about 5 miles from the base to handhelds  of course but that was amazing. Weather related? Home base is just south of Sea World. I was on Kirkman near Colonial drive. My base antenna is about 30 feet up and I was on ground level 

 

[gortex2]

What is he using for a base radio ? Its not unexpected if your both on a base radio with a decent antenna. 

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

8 minutes ago, gortex2 said:

What is he using for a base radio ? Its not unexpected if your both on a base radio with a decent antenna. 

Both the home and car radio are Wouxun KG-XS20G Plus radios. In the past I lost him near I-4 about five miles out. 

 

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

So I have my Wouxun Handheld with me and I'm receiving from my home at the same distance. 

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

Update. I went down to Route 50 and at one point I was getting two bars from the base unit but they couldn't hear me. I'm still working on my Antenna setup and I know it's not as well tuned as the home unit. However, I counted the miles now as the crow flies. 11.9 miles. That was the point when I heard the home unit but couldn't be heard from the home unit 

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

Going to be testing another Antenna over the weekend if I find time. It's a highly rated Antenna 

[marcspaz]

I have to say, I haven't been to my Florida home for almost a year, so I cant speak to any weather issues happening now and my experiences. However about 10 miles base to mobile is normal for me when i am there. This is when I am in Hollywood, Altamonte Springs, and St. Pete.

 

Also, depending on geomagnetic activity, troposphere activity, etc. I have gotten hundreds of miles during Spring and Fall months. 

 

That said, there may be something going on that is boosting distance right now. I'm in Virginia right now and yesterday I made a simplex contact at 32 miles and another simplex contact minutes later, but even louder, at 48 miles. It's always fun when odd stuff like that happens. 

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

On 1/24/2023 at 12:29 AM, marcspaz said:

I have to say, I haven't been to my Florida home for almost a year, so I cant speak to any weather issues happening now and my experiences. However about 10 miles base to mobile is normal for me when i am there. This is when I am in Hollywood, Altamonte Springs, and St. Pete.

 

Also, depending on geomagnetic activity, troposphere activity, etc. I have gotten hundreds of miles during Spring and Fall months. 

 

That said, there may be something going on that is boosting distance right now. I'm in Virginia right now and yesterday I made a simplex contact at 32 miles and another simplex contact minutes later, but even louder, at 48 miles. It's always fun when odd stuff like that happens. 

I just talked to someone in Clermont today on the Orlando700. Clermont is way out of reach of the Orlando700 so that's not normal for sure but I get it all the time on Kirkman Road for over a year now.  And I put my home Antenna up a bit higher and now can talk to my home unit no problem from Route 50 11.9 miles north on Simplex. And I tried it  going south and picked it up on 192 in Kissimmee. Also get my base at the Orlando Airport east and west near Disney World but it's spotty at Disney location.  The path north from  my home to that location has parking garages, trees, Universal etc. I'm very impressed with that coverage. On the Simplex coverage west  I can also  hear chatter coming from  the Fort Wilderness Disney Campground on Simplex that is about 6.8 miles west with trees all around the campground area. The J-Pole Antenna I have is great but appears to be a bit directional.  Over the weekend I will be trying another Antenna and checking the results. My wife just wanted to talk to me going back and forth to work. And that is no problem at all. 

[kmcdonaugh]

Not unheard of. Mobile unit to base station I get 20 miles simplex and HT to base station I get 12 miles in Central Texas

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

An update on how this all happened. I have a private channel just for our house to our mobile units. Asked my wife to call me on the Orlando 700 and she didn't move the band up. She transmitted on the Simplex Channel. So I stand by and wait for the repeater and hear nothing. That's when I asked her to talk again and was surprised to be getting her from that distance.  Friday I will be trying for more distance with another Antenna. Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

 

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

So my new Antenna improved my reception even more (Ed Fong)Getting three repeaters now. The 700 is a solid 6 to 8 unlike before. Also Simplex is stronger as well. I added ferrite beads because I used them on the last Antenna but I wonder if I should remove them. Not sure if it changes it either way. SWR is good but wondering if I actually need to use the Ferrite Beads 

[axorlov]

With Ed Fong antennas you need ferrites, and a lot of them. Sweet spot seem to be between 5 and 7.

But if SWR does not change when you manhadling the cable, whatever number you have is good already.

[AdmiralCochrane]

23 hours ago, axorlov said:

With Ed Fong antennas you need ferrites, and a lot of them. Sweet spot seem to be between 5 and 7.

But if SWR does not change when you manhadling the cable, whatever number you have is good already.

Why does a J-Pole need ferrites?   And why more than one? 

[axorlov]

49 minutes ago, AdmiralCochrane said:

Why does a J-Pole need ferrites?   And why more than one? 

J-Poles demonstrate high common mode current, much more than dipoles and much-much more than 1/4 waves with ground plane. This is the reason Ed Fong antenna is a lousy choice if mounted on metal mast, SWR is all over the place because of coax coupling with the mast. Why more than one, look here at Figure 3: https://palomar-engineers.com/ferrite-products/ferrite-cores/ferrite-mix-selection On UHF frequencies, their sample bead has only 80 Ohm impedance, and you want much more, maybe 600 Ohm. And on UHF frequencies multi-turn toroid chockes also do not work because of capacitive coupling between turns.

[gortex2]

I still am baffled why folks buy the Ed Fong when in the end they could buy a TRAM or Browning for same price and be a better antenna. 

[AdmiralCochrane]

22 hours ago, axorlov said:

J-Poles demonstrate high common mode current, much more than dipoles and much-much more than 1/4 waves with ground plane. This is the reason Ed Fong antenna is a lousy choice if mounted on metal mast, SWR is all over the place because of coax coupling with the mast. Why more than one, look here at Figure 3: https://palomar-engineers.com/ferrite-products/ferrite-cores/ferrite-mix-selection On UHF frequencies, their sample bead has only 80 Ohm impedance, and you want much more, maybe 600 Ohm. And on UHF frequencies multi-turn toroid chockes also do not work because of capacitive coupling between turns.

This page was better: https://palomar-engineers.com/antenna-products/1-1-balun-kits/how-many-chokes-do-i-need

When I was running a J-Pole it was on a PVC mast and the coax never passed by any significant metal to couple with. I agree if you can't avoid a metal mast or aluminum siding, chokes will be necessary.   My current 1.25m J-Pole is on a PVC stand-off away from the metal mast with looped coax for common mode suppression, it's tuned for my local repeaters and the SWR is bottomed out, basically 1.11. 

14 hours ago, gortex2 said:

I still am baffled why folks buy the Ed Fong when in the end they could buy a TRAM or Browning for same price and be a better antenna. 

Or make one from junk they have laying around.  It's the appliance buyer mentality.  Fong is like Midland, best of marketing. 

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

15 hours ago, gortex2 said:

I still am baffled why folks buy the Ed Fong when in the end they could buy a TRAM or Browning for same price and be a better antenna. 

The Tram 1486? 

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:17 PM, axorlov said:

J-Poles demonstrate high common mode current, much more than dipoles and much-much more than 1/4 waves with ground plane. This is the reason Ed Fong antenna is a lousy choice if mounted on metal mast, SWR is all over the place because of coax coupling with the mast. Why more than one, look here at Figure 3: https://palomar-engineers.com/ferrite-products/ferrite-cores/ferrite-mix-selection On UHF frequencies, their sample bead has only 80 Ohm impedance, and you want much more, maybe 600 Ohm. And on UHF frequencies multi-turn toroid chockes also do not work because of capacitive coupling between turns.

Getting excellent SWR reading with mine. It's not mounted on a metal mast. I see comments all over the place about the love or hate for the Ed Fong. All I can tell everyone is that I get three repeaters now that I didn't get before. Also more miles in Simplex. That's all I want. 

[axorlov]

Advantage of Ed Fong antenna is that you also get 2m. So, if you can live with common mode current, more power to you. But for GMRS only there is Browning BR-6140, which was cheaper(!) than Fong at some time in the past, has proper choke, N connector, sold with mounting hardware, and is only 24" long. It is unity gain antenna, like Fong. I had very good results with it. SWR was low, below 1.3:1. It did not demonstrate common mode current. Currently I mounted Diamond X50NA, because I'm more interested in ham 2m, it has crappy 2:1 SWR on GMRS, but it works for me at this moment of time. My antenna system is evolving.

The poor man method to test for common mode current: plug SWR meter between radio and antenna, touch with your finger the connector on the antenna side while transmitting. If SWR changes, you've got significant common mode current. In my book (and only in mine) if the change is 10%, it's fine. If it's between 10% and 30% I may address it, depending on how much trouble it involves. Over 30% is a problem needs fixing.

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

Over the Summer I will try some of the other Antennas suggested here. Right now I'm  burnt out from all of the time I spent on this. Antenna is up and cable is done. My original goal was to get the Orlando 700 repeater for two other locations and not counting on a good Simplex Signal. Now I have both. I can reach both of my locations with the 700 and also on Simplex. Appreciate all of the suggestions from everyone. Going to help a friend in Maine get his GMRS radio up and running so he can talk to his house while he's at the Summer retreat.