Good GMRS or Ham HT for railroad scanning?

[NotaSAAB]

I recently obtained my Technician's license so I could legally scan in my state (MN) and obtained a GMRS license at about the same time as it seems more aligned with my potential use doing non-radio hobby stuff.

Which handheld would be a good balance of scanning capability (sensitivity, speed of scanning, ability to select only certain frequencies for scanning) and GMRS functionality?  

For background, I have an old 20-channel Radio Shack handheld that served me well for a long time for scanning railroad band + 457.9375 (end of train device freq). I usually only want to scan 20 or less channels depending upon my location (based on the railroads of interest and what channels they use in that location).

I now have a Radioddity GM-30, a BTech GMRS v2 and a Explorer QRZ-1 which I'm still learning.  I also have a couple of Signal Stick antennas (SMA-M SMA-F).

From my searches so far, I should be looking at setting up scan groups and enabling/disabling frequencies from scanning if my handhelds have those capabilities.

Would I see any noticeable improvement in scanning/receiving performance with something like a Wouxon KG-935 Plus, KG-UV8H or KG-UV9PX?  Is there another deviceI should consider, such as Yaesu FT-70DR or VX-6R based on superior scanning capability?

If I have a good HT for my purpose, is there a mobile that would be similarly useful for my use case?

I'm not really interested in TX much unless it's with friends/family on GMRS most likely unless there's some other mode that seems useful.  I already have enough hobbies. 

Thank you!

[kidphc]

23 hours ago, Lscott said:

I doubt you'll have much luck with that. The following is my understanding.

Typically the trunking systems requires the radios to register, or affiliate, with the system. The trunking systems are designed so any radio that accesses the system has to be preregistered on the system. The radio requires special programming using a system key file that is tied to the specific trunking system and has to be obtained from the system owner, which you most likely will never get. In fact the TK-5220/5320 Kenwood radios I have won't allow you to even edit the trunking system network info in the programming software without first loading the system key file. All you see it the default values which you can't change.

The radio when it receives a transmission it's coded such that the radio knows it's from a trunked system. Without the programming with the system key file the radio will not decode the audio. That's how they maintain security.

I have a buddy that purchased a used Motorola XTS-5000 on 800MHz. There was a hack he found so the radio could be spoofed in to doing what is called "non-affiliated" scanning. I haven't heard of others using different radios successfully.

Even if you did find a way to scan a P25 trunked system your efforts might still be wasted since more agencies are going encrypted.

Then there is P25 Phase 2 which is specific for trunking systems. Unless you pay BIG bucks for a newer P25 radio with Phase 2 you're dead in the water if that's what they are using. All my radios are Phase 1 since I use them for Ham and monitoring commercial conventional repeater systems. As far as I know Phase 2 is not used on the Ham bands.

The NXDN trunked systems work about the same. I did read someplace where it was claimed some of the Icom radios will do "non-affiliated" scanning. I know the Kenwood radios won't.

One other thing about the Kenwood NX-210 radios. I think there is railroad specific firmware for them too, so if you're looking to buy you might want to inquire with the seller if that the case. Since the NX-200's are basically the same radio I haven't been all the interested in getting one so I never worried about it or researched it.

Part of the reason i love the Harris  100p. 2 check boxes and it won't affiliate or transmit on, said said trunked sets. Unlike some Motorola radios that will try to affiliate if you don't do it right. Then the radio will get zapped, to get it working again the system admin will have to unlock it. But good luck on explaining that and not ending up with hefty fines, the middle finger or some potential jail time.

Better to get a scanner for the cost they are awesome. With a GMRS radio you are set. Sure you gotta carry 2 radios, but for simplicity,cost and legality wise it is going to be simpler.

Really, wish there was ham gear that could do p25, trunked work. But it would be low volume. To be fair how many repeaters would even ever be set up for trunking? Yep, that is the answer I came up with.

[WRUU653]

Well I may be chiming in a bit late but like @WRHS218 I have also picked up railroad traffic with my KG-935G Plus. Frequencies here are in the 160.’s

[WRWR489]

Easy to set up is a small laptop with a RTL dongle and DSD+FL, It will decode most all formats and is 10 bucks a year or 25 bucks lifetime. Get a 3 month sub at radio reference and download the sites and talk group files and your public safety is covered as long as it is not encrypted.

[Lscott]

On 5/16/2023 at 12:19 AM, WRUU653 said:

Well I may be chiming in a bit late but like @WRHS218 I have also picked up railroad traffic with my KG-935G Plus. Frequencies here are in the 160.’s

Railroad frequencies.

Railroad - Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference.pdf

[WRUU653]

@Lscott I am always impressed with the seemingly endless amount of information you have at the ready for download. Bravo sir. 
This is the limited amount I have programmed in that seems to get used here 

RR-ONBRD

160.440000

RR-PB

160.485000

RR-SLO

160.875000

RR-SL/SB

161.550000

On board, Pismo Beach, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara  

 

[gortex2]

6 hours ago, WRUU653 said:

@Lscott I am always impressed with the seemingly endless amount of information you have at the ready for download. Bravo sir. 

The info provided is from Radio Reference. There is a ton of information on that site regardless of some folks complaining about it.