151.6250 aka RED DOT

[WQAI363]

I guess the FCC knew what they were doing when they assembled the Multi Use Radio Service. The FCC should have added 151.625 as a 6th channel, but I realize they're a lot of commercial businesses that use that frequency. Some users aren't really classified as business, but they are licensed for that frequency.

For example, the North American Rail Car Operator's Association use 151.6250 as their primary channel when they run an excursion on a branch line. There are Hot Air Balloon Pilots that use frequency for ground to air operation, although I don't know that for sure.

I must make a confession; I have programmed a DMR radio and made several tests on 151.6250. I know that violates Rules & Regulation, but I figure as long as I did it low keyed and not use it for casual conversation, what's the problem? Plus that frequency in my general vicinity isn't used. The Q mart uses it, but I'm at lease 4 to 6 miles away that I wouldn't interfere with them.

 

[Radioguy7268]

I'm close enough to know where (and what!) the Qmart is, and trust me, they are not the only local users on 151.625.  I've got a license for that frequency & use it in my VHF rental fleet. My biggest problem on that channel is a bunch of paving contractors who use it as an unlicensed "chat channel" while they're driving between jobs. Judging by what I've heard & how far apart they've been, they're using at least 25 to 40 watt mobile radios on what's supposed to be a low power channel.

Not quite sure why you would willingly admit to operating unlicensed on a freq, but if you're looking for a blessing I doubt you're going to find it. However, in reality you are not the first and probably won't be the last to violate the rules in VHF.

[Lscott]

11 hours ago, Adamdaj said:

must make a confession; I have programmed a DMR radio and made several tests on 151.6250. I know that violates Rules & Regulation, but I figure as long as I did it low keyed and not use it for casual conversation, what's the problem?

You're not licensed to use it.

11 hours ago, Adamdaj said:

Plus that frequency in my general vicinity isn't used.

You know that for a fact?

11 hours ago, Adamdaj said:

The Q mart uses it, but I'm at lease 4 to 6 miles away that I wouldn't interfere with them.

Did you go there and ask them to be sure?

This is how it usually starts. The typical excuses:

"I'm not hurting anyone"

"I'm not interfering with anything"

"Nobody uses the frequency anyway"

"The FCC doesn't care"

and so it goes. Why bother with rules when people ignore them anyway? That's how the CB 11M band ended up the mess it became in the late 70's and early 80's. And that's not talking about the freebanders above 27.405MHz. Hams can tell you all about the illegals operating on the lower end of the CW section of the 10M band.

[Guest]

Good morning Adam,

I read your post yesterday (after work) and then again today (after some rest) and I do not know if it is the English teacher in me or if I am just tired and ready for break. In any case, the question that bothers me is:

What is your purpose ?

In a quick statement you claim that the FCC should have included red dot into MURS before going on to explain that some businesses are using that frequency and some not. You then switch into that wired confession mode telling us that you use that frequency (illegally) without any explanation.

Erosions starts with the first tiny grain of dirt being carried away! - It always starts that small and "innocent" and it always grows and often causes major damage!!!

The frequency spectrum relies on users to be courteous and to operate within the boundaries of their privileges. 

I like to second the following question:

3 hours ago, Radioguy7268 said:

Not quite sure why you would willingly admit to operating unlicensed on a freq, 

Unless we are looking at an emergency situation, the facts are simple:

1 hour ago, Lscott said:

You're not licensed to use it..

... by your own admission.

 am (almost) offended that you make us complicit in your action.

 

As far as the erosion metaphor is concerned, please remember that engineers will you vast amounts of concrete to combat those phenomena. I wonder what the FCC regulatory equivalent of concrete might be - but it will for sure not be to the benefit of the regular user!!!

 

Integrity is the way you behave when nobody is looking and when you can be sure that you would get away with "murder".

 

(I guess, in the end, the English teacher yielded to the school principal....)

[WRUU653]

2 hours ago, WRXD372 said:

Good morning Adam,

I read your post yesterday (after work) and then again today (after some rest) and I do not know if it is the English teacher in me or if I am just tired and ready for break. In any case, the question that bothers me is:

What is your purpose ?

In a quick statement you claim that the FCC should have included red dot into MURS before going on to explain that some businesses are using that frequency and some not. You then switch into that wired confession mode telling us that you use that frequency (illegally) without any explanation.

Erosions starts with the first tiny grain of dirt being carried away! - It always starts that small and "innocent" and it always grows and often causes major damage!!!

The frequency spectrum relies on users to be courteous and to operate within the boundaries of their privileges. 

I like to second the following question:

Unless we are looking at an emergency situation, the facts are simple:

... by your own admission.

 am (almost) offended that you make us complicit in your action.

 

As far as the erosion metaphor is concerned, please remember that engineers will you vast amounts of concrete to combat those phenomena. I wonder what the FCC regulatory equivalent of concrete might be - but it will for sure not be to the benefit of the regular user!!!

 

Integrity is the way you behave when nobody is looking and when you can be sure that you would get away with "murder".

 

(I guess, in the end, the English teacher yielded to the school principal....)

I also read this last night and then again this morning. I was at a loss as to how to respond. Trying to think of what would compel the OP’s post and look for something I was missing. Murs is used so little why would you need more? An opinion of wanting it to have more seems harmless to express. But to up and state an active disregard of the current regulations of the frequency while knowing it’s being used for other purposes. It’s an entirely slippery slope.    

I could not have articulated a better response than @WRXD372 has and hope that it has a beneficial effect in giving OP pause and consideration as to why their actions are not in their or the radio community’s best interest. IMHO If you aren’t licensed for a frequency don’t key up. 73’s

[Guest]

On 6/23/2023 at 9:39 AM, WRUU653 said:

I also read this last night and then again this morning.

[Lscott]

On 6/23/2023 at 12:39 PM, WRUU653 said:

IMHO If you aren’t licensed for a frequency don’t key up.

Or at least don’t publicly admit to doing so. 

[WRQC527]

My guess is that the original post was simply to "stir the pot", which it succeeded in doing, but in case it's a serious post, the general public has at its disposal, with some subject to licensing, the following:

40 channels of CB radio frequencies, including AM, FM, USB and LSB.

5 channels of MURS frequencies.

22 channels of FRS / GMRS frequencies.

An additional 8 GMRS channels, which also allow for repeater use.

A wide spectrum of UHF, VHF, and HF frequencies allotted to amateur radio.

With that much of the RF spectrum, and that many options, Is there any reason to "violate Rules & Regulations" by transmitting where you ought not to, other than the notion of getting away with something?

 

 

[WRKC935]

Dumb question, but is 151.625 even have a license class attached to it. 

There is so much crap that is sold that uses that frequency, I don't know that iit has a requirement.

 

[SteveShannon]

1 hour ago, WRKC935 said:

Dumb question, but is 151.625 even have a license class attached to it. 

There is so much crap that is sold that uses that frequency, I don't know that iit has a requirement.

 

It appears to be an itinerant frequency in the licensed business band. 

[Lscott]

Here's a list of common business itinerant frequencies.

Common Itinerant and Business.pdf

[WRCZ387]

I had 151.625 MHz programmed in my h-t's for "just-in-case" or "just because"

But then I gave it some thought, considered the fact that it's a business band frequency & I decided to delete it

If I can't communicate on FRS, GMRS or MURS, forget it

[Lscott]

7 hours ago, WRCZ387 said:

If I can't communicate on FRS, GMRS or MURS, forget it

Some people put a few of the marine band frequencies in their VHF radios when out on the water. Also hunters have been frequently known to use portable VHF marine radios when out in the woods. That's a dead give-a-way as what they're up to with local conservation officers. 

[WRCZ387]

Just curious, like the OP, why did you pick 151.625 originally to program into your radios?

There are various frequency lists posted on the Net for preppers, SHTF, etc, Red Dot & Purple Dot were on the lists

Most of my h-t's have the capacity of storing 128 channels, [1] has 199 channels, [1] has 4000 channels, so when I first got into GMRS a few years ago, I went all out [yes, crazy] on programming for every which way I thought that I would need, or might need

Now, I've read a lot more [thanks to everyone on mygmrs & radioreference], I'm a little more knowledgeable, & I'm more responsible on what I have in my rigs

I do have the NOAA frequencies, & [3] local rail frequencies programmed in, but I make sure that they are on 'NO TRANSMIT' before I unplug the h-t from the pc, let alone before I leave the house

 

[Lscott]

57 minutes ago, WRCZ387 said:

& [3] local rail frequencies programmed in, but I make sure that they are on 'NO TRANSMIT' before I unplug the h-t from the pc,

I know about some people who talk to the train personal when its in range. They don't do it regularly. And if the train personal are using NXDN they won't be using a Baofeng to do it.

[WRCZ387]

43 minutes ago, Lscott said:

I know about some people who talk to the train personal when its in range. They don't do it regularly. And if the train personal are using NXDN they won't be using a Baofeng to do it.

Nope, nope, nope, nope

I enjoy my QSO's on GMRS, I'm good with those

I actually have no interest in conversing with train engineers, boaters, cops, firefighters, etc

Maybe in person, not on the radio

I'd rather spend my $$$ on radio equipment, not FCC &/or civil fines thank you very much

[WRQC527]

1 hour ago, Lscott said:

I know about some people who talk to the train personal when its in range.

In 2008, a Metrolink accident happened in Chatsworth, killing 25 people, when the engineer was distracted while texting with a 16-year-old railfan, ran a red signal, and hit a freight train. It's a terrible idea to communicate with railroad personnel while they're operating trains.

[WRCZ387]

6 minutes ago, WRQC527 said:

In 2008, a Metrolink accident happened in Chatsworth, killing 25 people, when the engineer was distracted while texting with a 16-year-old railfan, ran a red signal, and hit a freight train.

It's a terrible idea to communicate with railroad personnel while they're operating trains.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should

[back4more70]

1 hour ago, WRQC527 said:

In 2008, a Metrolink accident happened in Chatsworth, killing 25 people, when the engineer was distracted while texting with a 16-year-old railfan, ran a red signal, and hit a freight train. It's a terrible idea to communicate with railroad personnel while they're operating trains.

Agree, but that was 100% on the engineer.  He chose to respond.

[Lscott]

3 hours ago, WRQC527 said:

In 2008, a Metrolink accident happened in Chatsworth, killing 25 people, when the engineer was distracted while texting with a 16-year-old railfan, ran a red signal, and hit a freight train. It's a terrible idea to communicate with railroad personnel while they're operating trains.

People get distracted yacking on their mobile radio too. Sometimes that doesn't end well either.

[WRQI583]

On 6/22/2023 at 8:36 PM, Adamdaj said:

The Q mart uses it, but I'm at lease 4 to 6 miles away that I wouldn't interfere with them.

 

I AM NOT CONDONING OPERATING ILLEGALLY!!! So for you "right arm of the FCC" guys, please keep your comments to yourself.

With that said, if you were on low power operating DMR and you were operating 1 time slot, not double time slots, there is a chance they never even heard you. The only person who would have heard you was probably one of these "right arm of the FCC" guys with an SDR radio scanning the band looking to report someone to the FCC. I have tested DMR in that aspect and if the analog radio is receiving wideband, or even in some cases narrowband, and you come on with a DMR radio running 1 time slot, the radio running the full width doesn't even break squelch. I have done it with two portable radios side by side one on analog and the other on DMR with 1 time slot running. 

[Lscott]

13 minutes ago, WRQI583 said:

The only person who would have heard you was probably one of these "right arm of the FCC" guys with an SDR radio scanning the band looking to report someone to the FCC.

You would be surprised that some do. There are a LOT of "ears" out there with nothing better to do with their time.

I have a buddy who routinely recorded some illegal activity he stumbled upon on VHF for a few months . The recordings he had were sent to the FCC, by their request, as part of their evidence gathering activity. I know for a fact it was being done since I had an opportunity to hear one of his recordings. The people involved thought they found an unused frequency. Turns out the group being recorded had stupidly picked a military VHF frequency that wasn't currently being used in the area. Oops. Oh, yeah, they got busted and prosecuted for various crimes after a while.

[Lscott]

One other thing I don't recommend is pilfering, or spoofing or faking, a call sign. 

For example on enough occasions I would talk to somebody for the first time on the air. Then was a bit put back when they knew my name and location that I never mentioned. Seems like people like to sit in front of the computer and look up call signs on the FCC's database while yacking on the radio.

[MarkInTampa]

6 hours ago, Lscott said:

For example on enough occasions I would talk to somebody for the first time on the air. Then was a bit put back when they knew my name and location that I never mentioned. Seems like people like to sit in front of the computer and look up call signs on the FCC's database while yacking on the radio.

I'm guilty of doing this on occasion. If I hear somebody on the repeater input frequency and I catch a call sign, I'll look them up online to see how my antenna and radio are performing on receive. Not a lot of local GMRS users here and I'll do a call out to them and let them know I'm local to them. I've made a few simplex friends this way.

 

[WRQC527]

10 hours ago, Lscott said:

Seems like people like to sit in front of the computer and look up call signs on the FCC's database while yacking on the radio.

I don't do this on VHF/UHF/GMRS because 99% of the time I'm driving or hiking, but it's very common on HF. For me it's more of a curiosity thing to look up a call sign on QRZ dot com just to see where they are, and many times I've had people come back to me with my name, which like you said, I didn't mention. We did have a crotchety old guy on our repeater who would sit there all day and look up call signs for the sole purpose of calling them out if they had "appropriated", shall we say, a call sign. As crotchety as he was, he did keep some of the riff-raff off our repeater.