Approved for Ham & GMRS radios

[pcradio]

7 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

Did you read the paragraph you’re questioning.

Sorry, yes. I'm just confused. I read the words, but the reality in practice makes no sense. And I think others feel the same. We as a people using radio can do better than this. We don't have to point to a document that states, "jump off the bridge, everyone else is doing it". We can do better. I'll see what I can do. Thank you for your help.

[gortex2]

Being @pcradio is going to use his radio and in his simple mind believe its ok I dont know why we are debating this topic yet again. The entire CCR mentality is why we are in this mess. You didn't have this problem when you had to order a crystal and provide your license to buy a radio. Things change. Get over it. The CCR will continue to ruin radio for all of us. 

[Guest]

@Sshannon - Steve, time to take a break !!!

This is going nowhere and beginning to circle endlessly 

 

There will always be people who prioritize technical ability and modifications over good practices and compliance !

In many cases, that behavior matters little in real live applications - in other cases is ruins the fun for many due to interference or increase in regulation.

It's the fourth of July and in my dry and fire prone area, most cities prohibit fireworks. I can overlook most of this valley and I will see a ton of illegal fireworks tonight ... some people just need to do certain things they know are wrong and they all are able to rationalize their behavior!

[gortex2]

Just now, pcradio said:

We as a people using radio can do better than this.

Most of us use a certified radio for the service we are on. Rules are Rules. Regardless if you follow them or not they are there. No manufacturer is going to take on the FCC to change rules to make it better for you. They will make 3 radios all identical with 3 different firmware just to sell 3 radios. Why would they want to sell a radio that can do many services. Thats not economics. As you can see in the ham world the big 3 have not ventured much out of ham and have no interest in doing so. 

[pcradio]

I think it goes back to, "how did we get here?" These "rules" were created and codified by the same body who is also allowing CCRs to be sold. Whatever the FCC is doing does not make sense. Either they are serious about these rules or they are not. Its not logical to say they believe their rhetoric and then allow CCRs. I can not control what Amazon sells, but the FCC can. They want me to defend them among my peers who buy UV-5R on Amazon do they? Or maybe, they agree with me, that is silly to carry two identical radios? Some people want to carry three radios? More power to them.

[pcradio]

I'm having a conversation on another board. They've hinted that there is a legal radio. I'm awaiting their response.

[pcradio]

11 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

The only example of a "certified" GMRS radio that can also transmit on ham radio that I am aware of is the Radioddity DB20-G, which is sold in the USA as a "certified" GMRS radio (with one codeplug) and in Europe as a "ham radio" (with a different code plug). The end user can change the code plug so that it can be either radio in the USA: ham radio with one code plug or a "certified" GMRS radio with the other code plug.

Yeah, that is an interesting radio. It means that I can, as a dual licensed individual, switch the radio around to the service I want to use. That's what I've been asking for. So, it does exist? Also, confusing, there is a GMRS version of the UV-5R here. It is software configured for GMRS only.

This means you could have two UV-5Rs setup for different services. The logical conclusion of this is I could "switch" modes on the fly.

[Sshannon]

11 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

Yes, I have one that I use for GMRS and its Anytone AT-779UV clone as well, that I use for ham radio.

That IS confusing: a couple of years ago the UV-5G and the UV-5X were released that were GMRS certified and sold separate from the UV-5R.

I suspect that the Amazon post is incorrect in some respect; I will study it in more detail later.

I have two of the DB20G radios. It’s not as simple as loading a different codeplug, as least on mine. First you must reset the radio with a two finger key press while powering it on. That wipes the memory of all existing channels. You also must choose which frequency ranges where you want your radio to operate. In my opinion if you were to ask the FCC if this nullifies the certification I believe they would tell you that it does, but I have not asked them. I would not ask. The regulations are clear. 

[KAF6045]

18 minutes ago, pcradio said:

Yeah, that is an interesting radio. It means that I can, as a dual licensed individual, switch the radio around to the service I want to use. That's what I've been asking for.

The DB20-G wipes the channel memory when one changes the frequency range control. Are you prepared to field reprogram all the channels every time you switch service? Granted, that is a mobile unit, not an HT. (Note: The frequency range can be changed using some boot-up button sequence, not just via computer code-plug editor, so field programming is a possibility)

(unfortunately, the drop down is being cut-off by the pop-up window size, so the "US GMRS" entry is not showing -- it sits between European PMR version [explicitly states "version"] and Australian UHF FM CB)

That's what the wide-open option covers. The (previous clip) 420-450/144-148 is US 70cm/2m amateur band only mode.

[Sshannon]

Just now, WRXE944 said:

Have you actually done the procedure you suggest?

I did on one of them, but I don’t use that one for GMRS, just ham radio. 

[Sshannon]

1 minute ago, WRXE944 said:

Are you familiar with the concept of code plugs?

If not, by their very nature, the eliminate the tedium of having to reprogram all the channels.

I saved the codeplug for the GMRS configuration before resetting the radio. Then I made a new codeplug that included the 70 cm and 2 meter channels I needed. The GMRS antenna I use (Midland MXTA26) is worthless for 2 meters (not a complaint; it’s not advertised for 2 meters) so my 4Runner usually has a Comet SBB 5 and the ham band DB20G and the pickup usually has the original GMRS configuration radio and antenna. 
 

[marcspaz]

3 hours ago, pcradio said:

I'm having a conversation on another board. They've hinted that there is a legal radio. I'm awaiting their response.

 

People can hint at it all they want, they will still be wrong.

 

If you don't like the rules, lobby Congress.  That's what everyone else who gets laws and rules changed does.  In the mean time, you need to live by them or be prepared to suffer the consequences of those choices.

[pcradio]

1 hour ago, WRXE944 said:

I thought that two different radios was what you were trying to avoid?

You are correct, I'm trying to avoid using two different radios. I was just pointing out that the argument that a certified GMRS radio can not support a Ham configuration when I can in fact buy one legally that does! Forum members have shown at least two radios that fully support both GMRS and Ham, but that they have to be rebooted (basically) to change them.

The argument, If this is possible, why all the fuss about me using a different memory channel for one service and another memory channel for the other? Again, the pretzel logic of the FCC. Its starting to look like maybe someone is trying to rip us all off? Shocking, I know.

[Sshannon]

4 minutes ago, pcradio said:

You are correct, I'm trying to avoid using two different radios. I was just pointing out that the argument that a certified GMRS radio can not support a Ham configuration when I can in fact buy one legally that does! Forum members have shown at least two radios that fully support both GMRS and Ham, but that they have to be rebooted (basically) to change them.

The argument, If this is possible, why all the fuss about me using a different memory channel for one service and another memory channel for the other? Again, the pretzel logic of the FCC. Its starting to look like maybe someone is trying to rip us all off? Shocking, I know.

The fact that a radio can be opened up to operate on multiple bands with one configuration doesn’t mean such operations are compliant with the regulations, so if you do so you’re potentially exposing yourself to enforcement. Such enforcement has been noticeably absent in recent years, but in the past few months that has been changing. At the very least don’t announce it on a public forum. 
 

[pcradio]

5 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

Such enforcement has been noticeably absent in recent years, but in the past few months that has been changing. At the very least don’t announce it on a public forum.

I'm not afraid to discuss the betterment of the industry and I suggest we all discuss it in a public forum. There is nothing to be afraid of. We have say in how our government functions. I'm trying to ascertain, does everyone of you with a dual license have an issue with legal support for carrying one radio? Like, does it bother you if someone could have both in one package?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

[...] if you do so you’re potentially exposing yourself to enforcement. [...] At the very least don’t announce it on a public forum. 

 

1 minute ago, pcradio said:

I'm not afraid to discuss the betterment of the industry and I suggest we all discuss it in a public forum. There is nothing to be afraid of. We have say in how our government functions.

 

SShannon's comment clearly aims at disclosing illegal behavior - not the proposal of changes to regulations.

@pcradio - - If you do what you want anyways, you might as well keep it to yourself and not make others complicit !!!

 

[pcradio]

5 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

You just want to waive a red flag about your doing it in contravention to the rules and want us to to say what you’re doing is permissible. You take your chances, if you choose, but don’t expect us to endorse your actions publicly. 

On the contrary. I'm building support for the changing of something, not endorsement of something. What is everyone so afraid of? Its okay to think. You have a brain, say what you think, not what someone else is telling you to think.

[Sshannon]

4 minutes ago, pcradio said:

I'm not afraid to discuss the betterment of the industry and I suggest we all discuss it in a public forum. There is nothing to be afraid of. We have say in how our government functions. I'm trying to ascertain, does everyone of you with a dual license have an issue with legal support for carrying one radio? Like, does it bother you if someone could have both in one package?

Without knowing why the rule exists, I would absolutely be in favor of a regulatory change allowing a type 95E certified radio to be used for ham radio as well. Maybe I would change my mind if someone explained the reason for the regulations. 

[Guest]

My final attempt 

pcradio,

You are looking at combining multiple services into one radio.

Currently, it is possible (technoically) but it takes a little more understanding of the technology and the skills and willingness to tinker to do so. 

You look at this from the perspective of a ham who also likes GMRS.

BUT what does the other perspective look like:

A GMRS user with a GMRS/70cm/2m HT might end up being frustrated about the noise and traffic or lack of distance covered and might turn to "those other settings" on the HT...

At this point, what would your reaction be ?!?

More regulation and enforcement? Complains about "those GMRSers on Ham frequencies?

Be careful what you wish for !!!

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

... if someone explained the reason for the regulations. 

Maybe you want to keep the "out of the box without further knowledge" consumer from making a "wrong turn in the settings"... 

[Sshannon]

2 minutes ago, WRXD372 said:

Maybe you want to keep the "out of the box without further knowledge" consumer from making a "wrong turn in the settings"... 

That’s certainly possible, but that could be done with a setting; it doesn’t require a regulation. 

[pcradio]

13 minutes ago, WRXD372 said:

Maybe you want to keep the "out of the box without further knowledge" consumer from making a "wrong turn in the settings"... 

Humorously, the $20 UV-5R is getting purchased by teenagers in the droves right now with zero understanding. Me, with full understanding of how radio technology works, and the owner of a Yaesu VX-7R, can't put out .5watts on 462.550 without black helicopters showing up? I mean, its just laughable.

The box has been opened wide by the FCC itself in allowing fully programmable radios out there in the first place for decades. I know the real answer (they don't care). But I do care!

I'm not asking for much. As a licensed responsible ham I understand that I would need to input frequencies into a radio a certain way. Its not rocket science!

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Sshannon said:

That’s certainly possible, but that could be done with a setting; it doesn’t require a regulation. 

Right now we have settings and regulations and people are on frequencies they should not be on (do I remember a MURS vs. red dot thread lately?)

I would be interested to see how much traffic can be found on the default frequencies of those popular radios - my guess is that people just buy "whatever" on ebay and amazon, turn it on, and use it.

I would also put money on the statement that most GMRS transmissions are done by unlicensed operators -- or do we really think that thousands of Costco shoppers who picked up the Christmas special radios over many years actually obtained their license?

I do not beliefe that regulations have 'ultimate power' and I would like to live in a society where enforcement is an arcane word used only on the history channel ... but ...

 

[pcradio]

4 minutes ago, WRXD372 said:

I would also put money on the statement that most GMRS transmissions are done by unlicensed operators -- or do we really think that thousands of Costco shoppers who picked up the Christmas special radios over many years actually obtained their license?

I forced three young people who had bought radios to get their license. They had no idea.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, pcradio said:

Humorously, the $20 UV-5R is getting purchased by teenagers in the droves right now with zero understanding. Me,

...and then the question becomes: Do we need MORE or LESS rules and regulations ?!?

 

Also: Does anybody know why they buy those - given that they have cell phones ?!?