New KG1000G+ Cannot connect to repeater

[ThunderBear]

Just got a KG1000G+, bought the programming cable, downloaded the application to program it from Wouxun KG-1000G Plus GMRS Base/Mobile Two Way Radio (buytwowayradios.com). Can read and write to radio successfully.

Added a new channel in the Main Memory Group tab. Put in the frequency RX 462.7250 / TX 467.7250, added the CTCSS tone for RX & TX (not listing tones as its permission only), set to high power, wide band, AM off, mute QT, Descramble off, Compander off, scan on, and named it.

Wrote that to the radio, it shows up, I hear people speak on the channel. I don't appear to be connecting to the repeater. No squelch tail. No one appears to hear me and they aren't responding to my transmissions.

I also have a KG935G+, have the same channel programmed into it. Using the same method above. It works, I can talk on the repeater, other operators acknowledge my transmissions on the repeater. I do get a squelch tail on that radio.

What am I doing wrong with the KG1000G+, help.

Only reason I'm using these Wouxun radios is because they have the nonstandard privacy tones required to connect to the repeater. Otherwise, I'd be rocking my MXT500 that works flawlessly 100% of the time. I've even done firmware updates to the Midland, so I am not 100% clueless when it comes to working on radios. Just wish Midland would release a new firmware update withe the nonstandard privacy tones and I'd be happy. Midland, if you read this, please make a ton of people happy and give us those tones!

Wouxun, if you read this, understand I know you have good hardware, and your instructions are better than most, but terminology from documentation to the radio are not consistent. Learn to write documentation that addresses what the functions do, what configuration parameters are necessary to achieve certain outcomes and why you configure them in that manner. I work in IT management, and I write technical procedures daily. We purposely write them so that a 3rd graders could follow them, because making things unnecessarily difficult is a waste of everyone's time. Clear and consistent are key.

EDIT: I've connected the KG935G+ to the same antenna array using and SMA to SO adapter. People can hear me just fine. When I checked power output and SWR on the KG1000G+ it was 47ish watts and SWR was 1.79 (that's totally livable, not going to argue about it, besides the 5-watt handheld transmitted over it just fine)

[OffRoaderX]

Have you double/triple checked the TX tone and frequency?

[ThunderBear]

Totally legit to ask that question. It's like me sayin, to the users I support, have you tried turning off and back on again, so I totally understand.

Its channel 31 that I'm working on. I checked the TX frequency, and it matches all my other documentation. I did blur out the tones, and yes they were correct.

So, I took screen shots of the config, see below. I'm guessing its something stupid simple. I just don't know what it is. I added the Main Memory Group, Configuration Settings, and Frequency Mode Settings.

I did see somewhere something about that I can only transmit to a repeater in frequency mode, but that didn't make any sense. All I know is, my brain is fried from work this week and I just can't see what's likely right in front of me.

[ThunderBear]

Just now, WRXE944 said:

Windy Ridge 725?

Yes

[ThunderBear]

5 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

Are you trying to reach it from Soap Lake?

Yes.

When I remember its Wednesday, I've been doing the weekly NET check-in using the 935. I figured getting the 1000 (a 50watt radio) I should be able to hit the Ridge no problem.

[ThunderBear]

7 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

Turn off the Receive TONE on the 1000 and program your 935 to receive on 467.725 with the Tone needed by Windy Ridge and transmit on 462.725 with no tone. .

Have a family member use the 935 and separate some distance and see if the 935 can hear your 1000 when it transmits and if you can hear the 935 back.

I'll set this up and test it out tomorrow morning. Let you know what happens.

[nokones]

If you want to email me your radio codeplug file, I can take a look and do some testing to see what is/is not working. Email info below:

[ThunderBear]

13 hours ago, ThunderBear said:

I'll set this up and test it out tomorrow morning. Let you know what happens.

To be clear, I reset both radios to defaults before I started to set up the test. To make sure I'm running from a clean base config. The only change I made was to the Main Memory Group by adding the test channel.

Attached are images of the test channels I created.

These are the results of transmissions between the radios.

Test 0 = 935 showed full signal strength received no audio. 1000 showed full signal strength received full audio.
Test 1 = 935 showed full signal strength received no audio. 1000 showed full signal strength received full audio.
Test 2 = 935 showed full signal strength received no audio. 1000 showed full signal strength received full audio.
Test 3 = Both radios showed full signal and received full audio. Complete bidirectional comms.
Test 4 = Both radios showed full signal and received full audio. Complete bidirectional comms.

From what I can see, when the 1000 broadcasts with a privacy tone, no audio accompanies the traffic.

Going to assume that there is a setting somewhere that needs to be changed.

This is from the manual, it wasn't very helpful.

Using the Repeater Channels

The KG-1000G Plus is pre-configured with 8 GMRS repeater channels. The channels
are numbered 23-30 and named RPT-15 through RPT-22.

What is a Repeater?

In basic terms, a repeater is a device that is commonly used to increase the range of two
way radios. Repeaters will receive a transmission on one frequency and simultaneously
rebroadcast that transmission on a different frequency. Repeaters are often set up in
a fixed location and connected to an antenna that is mounted at a higher elevation to
provide better range than is normally available with radio-to-radio (simplex) communications.

Locating a Repeater

Using GMRS repeaters can significantly increase the range of your radio, but just tuning
to one of the repeater channels isn’t necessarily going to work. You first have to be
sure there is a repeater listening on that channel’s frequency, and you have to be within
range of that repeater.

The best resource for locating GMRS repeaters is the website www.myGMRS.com.
This site has an extensive database of GMRS repeaters throughout the United States.
It is important to keep in mind that a GMRS repeater is not necessarily intended for
public use. They are owned by individuals and are sometimes intended for private use or
require permission to use. Before connecting to a GMRS repeater, be sure that you have
permission or that the owner is fine with public use. The description on the myGMRS
website usually indicates if permission is required and provides a way to get in touch
with the owner.

As a licensed GMRS user you can also operate your own repeater. The KG-1000G Plus
can operate as a repeater when paired with a second unit and connected with a data
cable. For more information, read the section on Repeater Mode on page 90.
KG-1000G Plus Repeater Channels
Channels 23-30 (RPT-15 through RPT-22) have the same receive frequency as channels
15-22 (GMRS-15 through GMRS-22). However, the transmit frequency for these
channels is different, and is assigned to a frequency specifically designated as a GMRS
repeater input frequency. The following are the default frequencies for these channels.

Number Channel Receive Frequency Transmit Frequency

23 RPT-15 462.5500 467.5500
24 RPT-16 462.5750 467.5750
25 RPT-17 462.6000 467.6000
26 RPT-18 462.6250 467.6250
27 RPT-19 462.6500 467.6500
28 RPT-20 462.6750 467.6750
29 RPT-21 462.7000 467.7000
30 RPT-22 462.7250 467.7250

This was the single best instruction I could find. Thank you sir.
 

So, unless i missed a setting I need to change, which I hope is the reason it's not working as I expect. I'd have to say that maybe the radio is faulty. Need help from someone smarter than me, because clearly, I am certainly no expert.

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by ThunderBear
Remove an unnecessary attachment.

[ThunderBear]

4 hours ago, WRXE944 said:

Since you say it is a “non-standard” Tone, it’s possible Wouxum implements it incorrectly on the 1000, although it would seem unlikely, since it works on the 935

For testing I used an entirely different tone. First, I didn't want to inadvertently hit the repeater constantly with either radio, second it was easier to not have to modify the screen shots.

That being said, the fact that the 935 couldn't pick up audio with either tone and only picked up audio without a tone, leads me to believe that either something is wrong with the 1000, or there is a setting that needs to be configured correctly. The fact that I completely reset the radio leads me to hope that it's the latter.

Can anyone tell me if the KG1000G+ has repeater mode turned on by default? If not, how do I turn it on. I did find teh huge setup section for configuring two 1000's into a repeater, but that its not what I'm trying to accomplish. Just want to use this thing like it's a basic mobile/base station radio.

If no one here knows anything, that's cool. I'll contact support at Wouxun.

[ThunderBear]

I think possibly, that I may have found my answer... 

[04: REPEATER] Repeater Offset
Function: Sets the offset frequency for a repeater channel. When this option is activated
the KG-1000G Plus will transmit to the repeater input frequency when
the radio is tuned to a frequency that has a valid GMRS repeater offset. This
option is only available in frequency mode and will be ignored on frequencies
that do not have a GMRS repeater offset. The offset is fixed to 5.000 MHz.
Options: OFF/ON
Default: OFF

I was able to get the Moses Lake 600 repeater to respond to me, squelch tail and everything. But I had to be in frequency mode. Even in Channel Frequency mode it doesn't work, only in pure Frequency mode.

Now to decide whether this radio is utterly useless to me or not. It's hard to fathom that it won't connect in Channel Name mode, even when its set with the proper offset and tones in the Main Memory Group. Also, they say that they preconfigure the 8 repeater channels. Then why make it so the only way you can connect to a repeater is in Frequency Mode? Feels like it completely defeats the purpose.

I mean isn't the whole idea to be able to scan the channels so you can keep track of things. When you scan in Frequency mode it scans in 2.5 kHz step increments and scans everything from 400.000 - 479.995 MHz.

[ThunderBear]

I think you may have misunderstood from the earlier screenshots. I did have the 935 set to receive at 467.725 on tests 0, 1, and 3 acting as the repeater.

This was the config of the 935.


Test 0 = The 935 showed full signal strength received from the 1000 with no audio. 1000 showed full signal strength received full audio.
Test 1 = The 935 showed full signal strength received from the 1000 with no audio. 1000 showed full signal strength received full audio.
Test 2 = The 935 showed full signal strength received from the 1000 with no audio. 1000 showed full signal strength received full audio.
Test 3 = Both radios showed full signal and received full audio. Complete bidirectional comms.
Test 4 = Both radios showed full signal and received full audio. Complete bidirectional comms.

Tests 0 - 2 the 935 could see the 1000 key up at full strength, there was never any audio to accompany the transmission. Once I turn the privacy tones off, it worked both ways. So, the 1000 does broadcast on the offset, with and without a tone. It only sends audio without a tone. All tests were done in Channel Mode. I did not go back and try to test in Frequency Mode. 

When broadcasting on all four modes, the display shows the + indicating repeater mode. The only time I got an actual repeater to send back a squelch tail was in Frequency Mode.

I'm going to contact Wouxun support. I'm really thinking that the radio has issues. It acts like it wants to work, but just doesn't.

I have my 935 all programmed up and running. I can throw it on my base antenna, and it works great. I did a radio check with one of my three KG935G+'s here an hour ago. I received a response and was told it sounded "immaculate".

I'll get the 1000 warrantied and go from there.

Thank you for all your help, it was and is much appreciated.

 

[WRXH357]

Not sure if you got this working but I noticed something.  Under the VFO Settings why do you have REPEATER set to On?  I thought that was only used if you were using the radio as a repeater.

 

 

[ThunderBear]

On 7/25/2023 at 3:35 PM, WRXH357 said:

Not sure if you got this working but I noticed something.  Under the VFO Settings why do you have REPEATER set to On?  I thought that was only used if you were using the radio as a repeater.

 

 

In the VFO settings, having the repeater function on is for when the radio is in frequency mode, it automatically engages the offset on transmit.

The repeater function settings when pairing with a second radio are on the Configuration Settings tab. They are two totally separate functions.

[ThunderBear]

To follow up, I got the radio working.

I emailed back and forth with Buy Two Way Radios and eventually sent it back for an RMA. I spoke with their engineer on the phone while they had it and he was able to connect to repeaters without issue, so they sent the radio back. I received it yesterday. I got it all setup and I still could not connect to the repeater I wanted.

I started to think to myself. I could connect to the repeater with my KG935G+ and it's only a 5watt handheld radio. So, the only thing I never tried before was turning the power output down on the KG1000G+. I changed it from high power to medium power (which is 20watts) and low and behold, it connected!

I spoke with another operator; he told me it sounded great, a full 5x5. So, every other configuration setting I had was correct, I feel better about that.

We did net check-ins a little later on and I mentioned my success and what I had changed, and another operator said he had experienced the same issue once before with a Motorola radio he owned. 

Can anyone explain, why lowering the power output of my radio would have made a difference? I'm just curious.

[ThunderBear]

2 hours ago, WRXE944 said:

As the crow flies, how close are you to Windy Ridge 725?

Perhaps you are so close that High Power overwhelms the reception on the Repeater; in a similar way to desense. 

Per google maps, I am 48.79 miles from the repeater.

[ThunderBear]

Just now, WRXE944 said:

That seems much too far for desense to be the problem!

BTW: When I use Google Maps to determine the distance to a repeater, it wants to give me driving distance, not direct "as the crow flies" distance.

How do you make Google maps tell you direct distance?

Open Google maps, find the two or more points you want to measure. right click on the first point and click measure distance, then move to the second point and right click again and click distance to here, and it will display the straight line and the distance in miles and kilometers. You can continue to left click and it will add additional points and add to the total length.

[WRUU653]

For a line of site that includes terrain try this tool. 

[ThunderBear]

1 hour ago, WRUU653 said:

For a line of site that includes terrain try this tool. 

Because I build networks, I use this.

UISP Design Center

[WRXB215]

15 hours ago, WRXE944 said:

How do you make Google maps tell you direct distance?

1) Right click on location A and select Measure Distance.

2) Pan over and left click on location B.

It's a little different on the phone.

[WRUE951]

17 hours ago, ThunderBear said:

Open Google maps, find the two or more points you want to measure. right click on the first point and click measure distance, then move to the second point and right click again and click distance to here, and it will display the straight line and the distance in miles and kilometers. You can continue to left click and it will add additional points and add to the total length.

Take that one step further and right click on your distance line and choose 'Elevation Profile'..... Good for line of sight searching..  BTW,, i believe this only works in the GoogleEarth desktop version.