What is the best to use for a group of neighbors?

[WRXY704]

 Hi,

As previously already mentioned, we are working on a Neighborhood Watch program in our community.
Since some of them might not want to use their phones and also in order to communicate between
active/on duty people, I am thinking about what the best way of communication would be.
That was no question in the beginning: GMRS! 
But the second thoughts are regarding license and radio equipment. 
Since the neighborhood isn't more than 1 mile diameter, FRS with 2W output power should do the job.
But then I was checking on Amazon regarding FRS radios and I am just baffled, how those are...
I mean, you surely have looked at those descriptions and information provided...

Craziest thing I have seen:
High power (25W) walkie-talkie with 4000mAh battery.
First of all: it doesn't compute, as 25W/4.5V (usually) = over 5000mA which is more than the battery has
Secondly: You cannot use 25W on a handheld device
And the reviews are accordingly: "Not going even 1 mile!" and "Battery didn't last long"

Even the high named brands (I don't name them here), which cost more than $40 a piece, are bad. 
Using AA batteries (which might be fine, if you stick to 0.5W), but other than that, they usually have
battery or range issues. Some even died after a few months of usage. 

How many people are out there buying HAM radios without license???
I mean, I saw a HAM radio without even mentioning the necessary license and showing a picture of 
a hotel staff, security guard, construction worker and delivery guy using that thing...
I didn't know, that you can use HAM radio for a business without being licensed...

I am not judging  Amazon, don't get me wrong, but when I look for a FRS radio I scroll through all the
devices and just cannot find ANY decent radio, which would be considerable. 
Now i understand, why GMRS is the key...I mean, the most expensive FRS radio uses 3x AA  700mAh NiMH batteries???
 

Does anyone use FRS radio for a group of people? I mean, a 2W radio which comes with at least 2000mAh battery pack?
 

Thanks. 

WRXY704

[SteveShannon]

4 minutes ago, WRXY704 said:

 Hi,

As previously already mentioned, we are working on a Neighborhood Watch program in our community.
Since some of them might not want to use their phones and also in order to communicate between
active/on duty people, I am thinking about what the best way of communication would be.
That was no question in the beginning: GMRS! 
But the second thoughts are regarding license and radio equipment. 
Since the neighborhood isn't more than 1 mile diameter, FRS with 2W output power should do the job.
But then I was checking on Amazon regarding FRS radios and I am just baffled, how those are...
I mean, you surely have looked at those descriptions and information provided...

Craziest thing I have seen:
High power (25W) walkie-talkie with 4000mAh battery.
First of all: it doesn't compute, as 25W/4.5V (usually) = over 5000mA which is more than the battery has
Secondly: You cannot use 25W on a handheld device
And the reviews are accordingly: "Not going even 1 mile!" and "Battery didn't last long"

Even the high named brands (I don't name them here), which cost more than $40 a piece, are bad. 
Using AA batteries (which might be fine, if you stick to 0.5W), but other than that, they usually have
battery or range issues. Some even died after a few months of usage. 

How many people are out there buying HAM radios without license???
I mean, I saw a HAM radio without even mentioning the necessary license and showing a picture of 
a hotel staff, security guard, construction worker and delivery guy using that thing...
I didn't know, that you can use HAM radio for a business without being licensed...

I am not judging  Amazon, don't get me wrong, but when I look for a FRS radio I scroll through all the
devices and just cannot find ANY decent radio, which would be considerable. 
Now i understand, why GMRS is the key...I mean, the most expensive FRS radio uses 3x AA  700mAh NiMH batteries???
 

Does anyone use FRS radio for a group of people? I mean, a 2W radio which comes with at least 2000mAh battery pack?
 

Thanks. 

WRXY704

Current is expressed in amperes or milliamperes. 
Capacity is expressed in ampere hours (Ah) or milliampere hours (mAh).  
It’s common to confuse the two, but it’s incorrect. 
A battery with a 4000 mAh capacity may be able to deliver 5000 mA (5 amps) for a short period. 

[WRXY704]

51 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

The City of Malibu funded a GoBox project for its residents in high risk areas to have a Radioddity DB-20G, an 18 watt mini-portable GMRS transceiver, powered by a rechargeable Lithium Ion battery for emergency communications. 

Hi WRXE944,

Thanks for this information. 
In our community, that's at least what I have researched, there is barely anybody with a GMRS device.
I don't know, if they don't have FRS radios...registered GMRS users maybe 4 - if that is accurate...
We wouldn't need a transceiver, as we would be in 1 mile range. And if there would be issues, we will have to
create anyway a chain, so in case there is a transmission issue, someone else can take the role of a 'human repeater'
and repeat the last information to others. At least, that would be the ideal way instead of having to purchase
equipment, which has to be also taken care of. 

 
We could surely do that also via WhatsApp Communities or just using Zello, but it would be good
to have radios stored in a HQ which will be handed out during shift of volunteers on duty and returned to be charged/stored back in
a HQ. That keeps cell phones available for calling 911 or other options. 

----->Additional   question: If GMRS, can that be 1 business license/call sign for the entire Neighborhood Watch community?
That would make it easy for all. 

[SteveShannon]

19 minutes ago, WRXY704 said:

Additional   question: If GMRS, can that be 1 business license/call sign for the entire Neighborhood Watch community?
That would make it easy for all. 

No, for two reasons:

NEW business licenses are no longer available for GMRS. Neither are government licenses  

The only new licenses available are individual licenses but they cover your entire family. 

[WRXY704]

6 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

No, for two reasons:

NEW business licenses are no longer available for GMRS. Neither are government licenses  

The only new licenses available are individual licenses but they cover your entire family. 

Hi Steve,

 that means a license for that group would work...just answer with a 'heart'...lol

WRXY704

Mark

[SteveShannon]

(2) Any individual who holds an individual license may allow his or her immediate family members to operate his or her GMRS station or stations. Immediate family members are the licensee's spouse, children, grandchildren, stepchildren, parents, grandparents, stepparents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, and in-laws. 

[MarkInTampa]

There is a emergency weather net around 20 miles away from me (huge retirement area, Sun City Center in FL) on 462.550 that has a bunch of users that check in using a color and unit number. Something like Unit Blue 1, Unit Blue 2, Unit Red 1, etc checking into base. All I can hear is the base station running the net just above the noise floor (NOT a repeater), the HT's are way to far away to hear any of them but in listening to net control there must be at least 40 units checking in during their weekly net. I have no idea how they are licensed though. My guess is the base unit is a licensed GMRS radio and operator. Since you don't need a license for FRS as long as your radios are the legal 2 or .5 watt depending on channel the HT's are probably FRS and you can identify yourself however you want. I don't know the legality's of a licensed GMRS base station talking to legal FRS HT/Users but I think that's what they are doing.

[WRXY704]

56 minutes ago, markskjerve said:

There is a emergency weather net around 20 miles away from me (huge retirement area, Sun City Center in FL) on 462.550 that has a bunch of users that check in using a color and unit number. Something like Unit Blue 1, Unit Blue 2, Unit Red 1, etc checking into base. All I can hear is the base station running the net just above the noise floor (NOT a repeater), the HT's are way to far away to hear any of them but in listening to net control there must be at least 40 units checking in during their weekly net. I have no idea how they are licensed though. My guess is the base unit is a licensed GMRS radio and operator. Since you don't need a license for FRS as long as your radios are the legal 2 or .5 watt depending on channel the HT's are probably FRS and you can identify yourself however you want. I don't know the legality's of a licensed GMRS base station talking to legal FRS HT/Users but I think that's what they are doing.

Thanks,

In our case it is more crime than weather/disaster issues...
 

WRXY704

Mark

[Lscott]

2 hours ago, markskjerve said:

I don't know the legality's of a licensed GMRS base station talking to legal FRS HT/Users but I think that's what they are doing.

That’s not a problem. The GMRS users have to ID. The FRS guys don’t. Main difference is FRS has no access to the repeater input frequencies.

[Lscott]

13 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

And spending $35 for a 10 year license is an easy first step.

Most people might volunteer their time and some effort. When it comes to their wallet that’s a different issue. That’s where handing out FRS radios may work better. The volunteers don’t have spend money, the radios are relatively cheap. Tell someone they have to spend $100 on a real GMRS radio, plus another $35 for the license, they might use a few times a month, or until they get bored and quit, isn’t going to fly. Those who are really serious will get their own radio and license.

[gortex2]

We use the Motorola Talkabouts for SAR training stuff and they are a good little unit for local stuff. I use a set for out of the vehicle stuff while out on jeep events. The are durable units and use alkaline batteries. You can gab a cheap set with WX alert on them for under $100 on amazon.  

 

[WRXY704]

4 hours ago, Lscott said:

Most people might volunteer their time and some effort. When it comes to their wallet that’s a different issue. That’s where handing out FRS radios may work better. The volunteers don’t have spend money, the radios are relatively cheap. Tell someone they have to spend $100 on a real GMRS radio, plus another $35 for the license, they might use a few times a month, or until they get bored and quit, isn’t going to fly. Those who are really serious will get their own radio and license.

Hi Lscott,

GMRS HT radios are not so expensive. For communication a Baofeng 9f or a Radioddity radio work perfectly fine.

If you spend under $80 for license and radio together it should be fine. FRS radio, like the mentioned Motorola one in this 

conversation here, costs nearly the same. 

 

WRXY704

Mark

[WRUU653]

Something you may want to consider aside from the radios is a neighborhood Facebook page. Our neighborhood has one and it has been helpful for getting the word out about an escaped dog, a block party, offering equipment to knock down vegetation in fire season and so on. It can be invitation only so it’s just your community and it doesn’t cost anything.

[SteveShannon]

For purposes of planning the following should be remembered:

1. Nearly all of what you wish to accomplish in your 1 mile diameter neighborhood can be accomplished with FRS radios.
2. ONLY higher powered base stations and portables will require GMRS licenses.
3. $35 GMRS licenses are good for 10 years.
4. You don’t need the most expensive GMRS radios, but neither should you rely on the cheapest.  
5. Amazon prices for radios are frequently considerably higher than dealer direct prices.  Shop at Buytwowayradios.com or Radioddity or wait for sales at Midland.  
6. Standardizing on a few different models will make training easier and will make it easier to help each other.  You’ll have users of widely different interest, aptitude, and experience so you must be able to help each other.
7. Look for radios that have very simple interfaces.  Think in terms of training your grandparents how to program a VCR.  It’s not going to happen.

 

[WRUU653]

I know some here have mentioned they can’t get their spouse interested in radios so getting neighbors interested may be a challenge. On the other side of the coin @WRHS218 has stated he bought one for his neighbor because they share a well in a rural area that has power outages. A great solution for their needs. Depending on your circumstances it may or may not appeal to others. Keeping the radio’s simple as @Sshannon mentioned may help to sell others on the idea. Also @marcspaz is putting together a video that you may consider sharing with your neighbors interested in GMRS.

[back4more70]

When I first saw the title of this thread (What is the best to use for a group of neighbors?) I thought: a 12-gauge and chicken wire will keep them out! 

[marcspaz]

1 hour ago, WRUU653 said:

Also @marcspaz is putting together a video that you may consider sharing with your neighbors interested in GMRS.

 

Yep, we're doing a GMRS 101 class. I'll share the link after the class.

[Lscott]

4 hours ago, WRXY704 said:

Hi Lscott,

GMRS HT radios are not so expensive. For communication a Baofeng 9f or a Radioddity radio work perfectly fine.

If you spend under $80 for license and radio together it should be fine. FRS radio, like the mentioned Motorola one in this 

conversation here, costs nearly the same. 

 

WRXY704

Mark

If you can find a radio that works and cheap that’s great. Usually the cost cutting is in the receiving section. The really cheap radios suffer from poor selectivity and desense from strong nearby sources. You get what you pay for, and sometimes not even that.

[WRXY704]

9 hours ago, Sshannon said:

For purposes of planning the following should be remembered:

1. Nearly all of what you wish to accomplish in your 1 mile diameter neighborhood can be accomplished with FRS radios.
2. ONLY higher powered base stations and portables will require GMRS licenses.
3. $35 GMRS licenses are good for 10 years.
4. You don’t need the most expensive GMRS radios, but neither should you rely on the cheapest.  
5. Amazon prices for radios are frequently considerably higher than dealer direct prices.  Shop at Buytwowayradios.com or Radioddity or wait for sales at Midland.  
6. Standardizing on a few different models will make training easier and will make it easier to help each other.  You’ll have users of widely different interest, aptitude, and experience so you must be able to help each other.
7. Look for radios that have very simple interfaces.  Think in terms of training your grandparents how to program a VCR.  It’s not going to happen.

 

Hello Steve,

Thanks for all that information.

i think, I have all I need in order to take the right steps to make this happen.

Thanks also for the purchase options. That I have to check. We got a set of 

Midland X-Tracker in the house, which seem to be also CHIRP compatible,

so that I can program them accordingly with privacy tones and see, how they work for us as a start.

 

Have a wonderful day.

 

WRXY704

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Sshannon said:

For purposes of planning the following should be remembered:

1. Nearly all of what you wish to accomplish in your 1 mile diameter neighborhood can be accomplished with FRS radios.
2. ONLY higher powered base stations and portables will require GMRS licenses.
3. $35 GMRS licenses are good for 10 years.
4. You don’t need the most expensive GMRS radios, but neither should you rely on the cheapest.  
5. Amazon prices for radios are frequently considerably higher than dealer direct prices.  Shop at Buytwowayradios.com or Radioddity or wait for sales at Midland.  
6. Standardizing on a few different models will make training easier and will make it easier to help each other.  You’ll have users of widely different interest, aptitude, and experience so you must be able to help each other.
7. Look for radios that have very simple interfaces.  Think in terms of training your grandparents how to program a VCR.  It’s not going to happen.