Going from 5 watt handheld to 50 watt mobile unit (used as a base unit)

[WRYW303]

Just wondering if going from a 5 watt handheld to a 50 watt mobile unit (used as a base) if all else is the same will it make a noticeable difference in transmission ?  I will likely later change out the cable to a lmr240 (50' run) eventually but now I'm using rg58 (25' run).  Anyone do something like this?   Thank you !

[WRWE456]

If you can give more info on your setup and situation and desired goal that would be helpful.

That RG58 is not doing you any favors. LMR 400 or equivalant is the generally recommended cable for UHF. Larger is even better but gets expensive and hard to work with. You are likely losing much of your power with that cable.

Anyway the more info the better.

I have done that very thing. I started with an Wouxun KG-985Gplus HT as a base then moved to a KG-1000Gplus 50w.  To be honest for my use it has been a sideways move. I live on a hill top facing the small town near me about 5 miles away and the 935G has enough power to do what I need even out to 30 miles. The 50 watt upgrade did little to change anything. So it really depends on your situation. One small advantage the HT has is you can talk to FRS radios where as the mobile/base radio can only listen to them.

[WRYZ926]

As stated, going with LMR400 will help. Also having a good antenna as high as you can get it helps tremendously. And to answer your question about a 5W HT versus a 20W or 50W mobile as your base, yes the more powerful mobiles will allow you to transmit farther (depending on your location).

[WRWE456]

Right and with your current cable the added power should give more power to the antenna to overcome some of the loss and that should give more range. I guess what I am saying is upgrade the cable first then see what that does. A 5 watt HT may lose 3-4 watts due to cable loss. You may only be getting one or two watts to the antenna. That alone can make a big difference.

[WRZE000]

5 hours ago, WRWE456 said:

One small advantage the HT has is you can talk to FRS radios where as the mobile/base radio can only listen to them.

Are you referring to the KG-1000Gplus?  It can not transmit to FRS radios?

[WRWE456]

Mobile/base radios are not allowed to transmit on FRS channels. Per FCC regs. Only HT's are allowed.

[WRZE000]

Please excuse my ignorance.  I'm new to the GMRS scene.

Is it that the base station is not allowed because it has 50W output?  If said base station were capable of limiting it's output to say (5W or .5W)....  can it then?  Or do manufacturers disable TX on the FRS channels alltogether? (or both)

Edited November 15, 2023 by WRZE000
altered Ws

[WRYZ926]

FRS is limited to 0.5W so no mobile radio can transmit on FRS 0.5w channels. The lowest that mobile radios will go is 5W. Midland doesn't even program the FRS channels into their mobiles and Wouxun has them programs but for receive only. The FRS 0.5W channels are channels 8 through 14. 

[WRZE000]

Got it.  Ok.  Thanks!

[WRZF693]

Great topic guys.. I'm wanting to do the same thing, but right now just considering using the 5 watt HT I have an setting up an antenna to use on top of the house or the side of it.. What cable and antenna would you guys that know this stuff recommend that I could buy off Amazon? I don't mind if it's a little expensive if it works better and gives me more range? I've thought about just buying one of those Midland antennas for their mobile radio's and then use it ? Would that work ok? I really only need about 20 feet or 25 feet of cable at the most.. I could actually probably just stick it out the window in the garage and use it which would take like 6 or 8 feet .. I know less cable is better, but higher antenna is better too.  There are so many versions of cable that it's confusing to new guys like me.. I just got my license about a week ago.. 

Any help would be appreciated.. I hope it's ok to ask that here instead of starting a new topic. I just assumed it was since it's related.. 
Thanks

Tim

[Sshannon]

#faq
This thread has some misinformation.  FRS and GMRS have exactly the same channels.  GMRS radios are allowed to communicate with FRS radios. The limitation on output power affects certain channels. It cannot be stated more clearly than the following quote from the regulations:

 

Quote

 

§ 95.1731 Permissible GMRS uses.

The operator of a GMRS station may use that station for two-way plain language voice communications with other GMRS stations and with FRS units concerning personal or business activities.

 

Here are the FRS/GMRS shared channels:

 

Quote

 

§ 95.563 FRS channels.

The FRS is allotted 22 channels, each having a channel bandwidth of 12.5 kHz. All of the FRS channels are also allotted to the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) on a shared basis. The FRS channel center frequencies are set forth in the following table:

 

Channel No.	Center frequency (MHz)
1	462.5625
2	462.5875
3	462.6125
4	462.6375
5	462.6625
6	462.6875
7	462.7125
8	467.5625
9	467.5875
10	467.6125
11	467.6375
12	467.6625
13	467.6875
14	467.7125
15	462.5500
16	462.5750
17	462.6000
18	462.6250
19	462.6500
20	462.6750
21	462.7000
22	462.7250

 

As far as what types of radios can transmit on which channels, here are those regulations:

 

Quote

 

§ 95.1763 GMRS channels.

The GMRS is allotted 30 channels—16 main channels and 14 interstitial channels. GMRS stations may transmit on any of the channels as indicated below.

(a) 462 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, repeater, base and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. The channel center frequencies are: 462.5500, 462.5750, 462.6000, 462.6250, 462.6500, 462.6750, 462.7000, and 462.7250 MHz.

(b) 462 MHz interstitial channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable and base stations may transmit on these 7 channels. The channel center frequencies are: 462.5625, 462.5875, 462.6125, 462.6375, 462.6625, 462.6875, and 462.7125 MHz.

(c) 467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. Mobile, hand-held portable and control stations may transmit on these channels only when communicating through a repeater station or making brief test transmissions in accordance with § 95.319(c). The channel center frequencies are: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz.

(d) 467 MHz interstitial channels. Only hand-held portable units may transmit on these 7 channels. The channel center frequencies are: 467.5625, 467.5875, 467.6125, 467.6375, 467.6625, 467.6875, and 467.7125 MHz.

 

 

 

 

And here are the power limits:

 

Quote

 

§ 95.1767 GMRS transmitting power limits.

This section contains transmitting power limits for GMRS stations. The maximum transmitting power depends on which channels are being used and the type of station.

(a) 462/467 MHz main channels. The limits in this paragraph apply to stations transmitting on any of the 462 MHz main channels or any of the 467 MHz main channels. Each GMRS transmitter type must be capable of operating within the allowable power range. GMRS licensees are responsible for ensuring that their GMRS stations operate in compliance with these limits.

(1) The transmitter output power of mobile, repeater and base stations must not exceed 50 Watts.

(2) The transmitter output power of fixed stations must not exceed 15 Watts.

(b) 462 MHz interstitial channels. The effective radiated power (ERP) of mobile, hand-held portable and base stations transmitting on the 462 MHz interstitial channels must not exceed 5 Watts.

(c) 467 MHz interstitial channels. The effective radiated power (ERP) of hand-held portable units transmitting on the 467 MHz interstitial channels must not exceed 0.5 Watt. Each GMRS transmitter type capable of transmitting on these channels must be designed such that the ERP does not exceed 0.5 Watt.

 

 

[Sshannon]

17 hours ago, WRYZ926 said:

FRS is limited to 0.5W so no mobile radio can transmit on FRS 0.5w channels. The lowest that mobile radios will go is 5W. Midland doesn't even program the FRS channels into their mobiles and Wouxun has them programs but for receive only. The FRS 0.5W channels are channels 8 through 14. 

There are 22 FRS channels and 30 GMRS channels.  1-22 are exactly the same channels and both FRS and GMRS are allowed to transmit on them.  

1-7 and 15-22 are limited to 2 watts for FRS, but GMRS can transmit on 1-7 at 5 watts and 15-22 at 50 watts.

8-14 are limited to 0.5 watts for both GMRS and FRS.

23-30 are GMRS only and limited to 50 watts.

[Sshannon]

18 hours ago, WRWE456 said:

Mobile/base radios are not allowed to transmit on FRS channels. Per FCC regs. Only HT's are allowed.

That’s only true for FRS/GMRS channels 8-14.  Mobile and base radios are allowed on channels 1-7 and 15-22.

[WRYZ926]

8 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

There are 22 FRS channels and 30 GMRS channels.  1-22 are exactly the same channels and both FRS and GMRS are allowed to transmit on them.  

1-7 and 15-22 are limited to 2 watts for FRS, but GMRS can transmit on 1-7 at 5 watts and 15-22 at 50 watts.

8-14 are limited to 0.5 watts for both GMRS and FRS.

23-30 are GMRS only and limited to 50 watts.

I stand corrected and I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. I overlooked all of the FRS channels that can use 2W and was going by the ones that are locked out on all GMRS mobile radios (channels 8-14).

[Sshannon]

7 minutes ago, WRYZ926 said:

I stand corrected and I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong.

That’s very admirable. 

[WRWE456]

Yes I should have specified the low power channels also.

[WRYZ926]

47 minutes ago, WRWE456 said:

Yes I should have specified the low power channels also.

Channels 8-14 are the low power channels at only 0.5 watts and you won't be able to transmit on those channels with a mobile radio.

[jas]

On 11/14/2023 at 3:00 PM, WRYW303 said:

Just wondering if going from a 5 watt handheld to a 50 watt mobile unit (used as a base) if all else is the same will it make a noticeable difference in transmission ?  I will likely later change out the cable to a lmr240 (50' run) eventually but now I'm using rg58 (25' run).  Anyone do something like this?   Thank you !

I just did that for my mobile setup. With the right antenna setup the difference is not huge it's A LOT bigger than that!  A whole new world....

[WRUU653]

5 hours ago, Sshannon said:

There are 22 FRS channels and 30 GMRS channels.  1-22 are exactly the same channels and both FRS and GMRS are allowed to transmit on them.  

1-7 and 15-22 are limited to 2 watts for FRS, but GMRS can transmit on 1-7 at 5 watts and 15-22 at 50 watts.

8-14 are limited to 0.5 watts for both GMRS and FRS.

23-30 are GMRS only and limited to 50 watts.

This info would be ideal for your proposed FAQ thread.

[Sshannon]

1 hour ago, WRUU653 said:

This info would be ideal for your proposed FAQ thread.

Good point!