Repeater TX RX & Talkabout (Direct) TX RX

[WRZM243]

If one is TX & RX on a Repeater using the same frequency as another who's only on Talkabout (Direct) on that same frequency, can either person TX or RX respectfully with one another if in close proximity? 

Clarification:  Thanks for your responses... part of this question should have been using the word respectively and not respectfully... sorry for the confustion!

Edited December 22, 2023 by WRZM243
Clarification

[BoxCar]

Repeaters use two frequencies. The higher one is your transmit and the repeaters receive frequency while the repeater broadcasts on the lower which is your receive. Depending on the simplex frequency it could cause interference.

[WRYS709]

Yes, but how respectful they are is up the operators.

[WRYS709]

16 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

Depending on the simplex frequency it could cause interference.

That statement is a truism for all GMRS communications; not just the one posited by the OP.

[Sshannon]

18 minutes ago, WRZM243 said:

If one is TX & RX on a Repeater using the same frequency as another who's only on Talkabout (Direct) on that same frequency, can either person TX or RX respectfully with one another if in close proximity? 

Transmitting on the 467 MHz main channels is only allowed by the regulations to communicate through a repeater or for testing (or between two Fixed Stations), so if you mean for one person to be transmitting on a 467 main channel directly to another person who is then responding on the matching 462 main channel, it would technically only be allowed while testing, not as a full time communications mode.

Or did I miss your point?

[WRWK524]

45 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

Or did I miss your point?

I understood the question to be such that a repeater frequency is 462.550 (channel 23) and that you transmit into the repeater on 467.550. So people using channel 15 which is GMRS 462.550 simplex could interfere with someone listening to a repeater on channel 23, which they are receiving on 462.550. Also that the repeater transmitting on channel 23 freq 462.550 can interfere with people using simplex channel 15 462.550.

[Sshannon]

13 minutes ago, WRWK524 said:

I understood the question to be such that a repeater frequency is 462.550 (channel 23) and that you transmit into the repeater on 467.550. So people using channel 15 which is GMRS 462.550 simplex could interfere with someone listening to a repeater on channel 23, which they are receiving on 462.550. Also that the repeater transmitting on channel 23 freq 462.550 can interfere with people using simplex channel 15 462.550.

You could be right but talkabout is a function that reverses the transmit and receive frequencies normally used to communicate through a repeater.  That’s why I interpreted it as I did. Unless the OP says something we might not know what was meant. 

[WRWK524]

26 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

You could be right but talkabout is a function that reverses the transmit and receive frequencies normally used to communicate through a repeater.  That’s why I interpreted it as I did. Unless the OP says something we might not know what was meant. 

Did you mean "Talk around?" The way I understand talk around is that if you were on the repeater channel 23, listening on 462.550, and transmitting on 467.550, and you used talk around you would eliminate the frequency shift and thus bypass the repeater, and simply be receiving and transmitting on 462.550, which is essentially simplex channel 15. 

[WRYS709]

28 minutes ago, WRWK524 said:

I understood the question to be such that a repeater frequency is 462.550 (channel 23) and that you transmit into the repeater on 467.550. So people using channel 15 which is GMRS 462.550 simplex could interfere with someone listening to a repeater on channel 23, which they are receiving on 462.550. Also that the repeater transmitting on channel 23 freq 462.550 can interfere with people using simplex channel 15 462.550.

Ignoring the fact that Motorola once again tries to claim trademark rights in the term "Talkabout" for its line of FRS HTs:

There are two separate generally accepted concepts of functions that are useful when your radio is on a "repeater" channel; that is, set to transmit on a different frequency than the one that it receives on:

Talkaround and Reverse

Talkaround, which is primarily found on GMRS radios, allows the operator to be on a Repeater Channel, but by the push of a button, immediately convert it to the Simplex Channel on the same frequency.

Reverse, which is primarily found on HAM Radios, allows the operator to be on a Repeater Channel, but by the push of a button, listen to the Repeater Input frequency and transmit on the Repeater Output frequency

So using @WRWK524's example:

Operator 1 has his radio set to Repeater Channel 23 and transmits on 467.550 through a local repeater and listens to replies on the repeater output of 462.550.

Operator 2 has his radio set to Repeater Channel 23 and using Talkaround, he transmits on 462.550 and listens on 462.550 as well.

Now going to the OP's original question:

1 hour ago, WRZM243 said:

If one is TX & RX on a Repeater using the same frequency as another who's only on Talkabout (Direct) on that same frequency, can either person TX or RX respectfully with one another if in close proximity? 

Yes, Operator 2 can communicate with Operator 1 because when Operator 1 transmits, Operator 2 will hear him on the output of the Repeater; while when Operator 2 transmits, Operator 1 will hear him Simplex because they are in close proximity.

This will cause some confusion by third parties listening to this conversation who are not in close proximity, because they will only hear Operator 1 and silence when Operator 2 transmits.

I often use this mode of communications when I discover a new repeater for which I do not know the access tone and I want to ask the Operator in close proximity to me for permission to use the Repeater and have him tell me the access tone.

[WRWK524]

18 minutes ago, WRYS709 said:

Talkaround, which is primarily found on GMRS radios, allows the operator to be on a Repeater Channel, but by the push of a button, immediately convert it to the Simplex Channel on the same frequency.

Which again means that the repeater will be interfering with you, and you will be interfering with people listening to the repeater.

[WRYS709]

14 minutes ago, WRWK524 said:

Which again means that the repeater will be interfering with you, and you will be interfering with people listening to the repeater.

Which again is not the OP's question in his OP; I do not see him using the word "interference."

I default back to my original response:

2 hours ago, WRYS709 said:

Yes, but how respectful they are is up the operators.

 

[WRWK524]

If you are interfering with someone listening to the repeater you are not being respectful. If the repeater is interfering with your conversation on simplex then it is not being respectful.

 

Suppose you are having a conversation on channel 15 simplex 462.550 with someone and the repeater starts identifying? Just what or who is not respectful?

[BoxCar]

The regs state you must not knowingly cause interference but must accept all interference. That implies someone using a repeater isn't necessarily responsible for interfering with a simplex user. The other is true as well: the simplex user isn't necessarily responsible for interfering with a repeater. This assumes the other wasn't aware of the current state of the channels.

[WRYS709]

That’s the problem with this Forum: so many want to make a debate about something that may seem important to them but irrelevant to the question posted!

[Sshannon]

3 hours ago, WRWK524 said:

Did you mean "Talk around?" The way I understand talk around is that if you were on the repeater channel 23, listening on 462.550, and transmitting on 467.550, and you used talk around you would eliminate the frequency shift and thus bypass the repeater, and simply be receiving and transmitting on 462.550, which is essentially simplex channel 15. 

Yes, sorry, I did mean Talkaround. I understood it as exchanging the Tx and RX frequencies. I could be mistaken. 
 

post script- I was wrong. I was thinking of Reverse. 
 

 

[WRYS709]

5 hours ago, WRZM243 said:

Clarification:  Thanks for your responses... part of this question should have been using the word respectively and not respectfully... sorry for the confustion!

Exactly!

No debate needed there!