SignallyCurious2 Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Just now, markskjerve said: I spotted that as well but figured it was highly unlikely. 90 miles away from Clark County (where the OP said he was) - also licensed for 2 watts. Agreed - this is the closest possibility yet. The signal is hitting -22db as far west as Normandy and Woodward and as far east as Delmere and 14 mile. It’s hitting -40db by the tech center in Warren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lscott Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 1 minute ago, markskjerve said: I spotted that as well but figured it was highly unlikely. 90 miles away from Clark County (where the OP said he was) - also licensed for 2 watts. I wondered the same thing. I wouldn't be surprised if radios got swapped around between plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lscott Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 2 minutes ago, SignallyCurious2 said: Agreed - this is the closest possibility yet. The signal is hitting -22db as far west as Normandy and Woodward and as far east as Delmere and 14 mile. It’s hitting -40db by the tech center in Warren. You can try removing the antenna on the radio. That's a cheap kind of signal attenuater. Do that when the signal gets real strong with the antenna connected. When you get close enough to the source the radio should respond even without the antenna connected. One other trick is flip the radio over so the antenna is horizontal. The source antenna is likely vertical and the cross polarization results in may cases another 20db attenuation. Then rotate in a circle. When the signal is minimum either the end of the antenna is point nearly towards the source or directly away from it. Try that in several locations and that can help pin down the area. SteveShannon, WRUU653, WRXB215 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignallyCurious2 Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 23 minutes ago, Lscott said: You can try removing the antenna on the radio. That's a cheap kind of signal attenuater. Do that when the signal gets real strong with the antenna connected. When you get close enough to the source the radio should respond even without the antenna connected. One other trick is flip the radio over so the antenna is horizontal. The source antenna is likely vertical and the cross polarization results in may cases another 20db attenuation. Then rotate in a circle. When the signal is minimum either the end of the antenna is point nearly towards the source or directly away from it. Try that in several locations and that can help pin down the area. Awesome - gonna do this now. Lscott and WRUU653 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrci350 Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 3 hours ago, SignallyCurious2 said: are they allowed to operated an encrypted DMR repeater? Businesses are allowed to use encryption, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignallyCurious2 Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Got some tracking done today, it’s intermittent and only 9-5. I believe the signal is between Coolidge and crooks, 14 and 15 mile. Couple interesting antenna arrays that I’m going to check out tomorrow. WRUU653 and WRXB215 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lscott Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 1 hour ago, SignallyCurious2 said: Got some tracking done today, it’s intermittent and only 9-5. I believe the signal is between Coolidge and crooks, 14 and 15 mile. Couple interesting antenna arrays that I’m going to check out tomorrow. Cool. Like to know what you find. SteveShannon, WRUU653, SignallyCurious2 and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lscott Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 I did some more searching on another site. Assuming the frequency is really 462.5125 I found the following: 462.5125 DMR MO 4 ROCK SECURITY & EVENTS INC. WRAK353 PONTIAC IG SECURITY COMPANY: RADIOS WILL BE USED FOR COMMUNICATION BETWEEN EMPLOYEES 462.5125 DMR MO 4 United Parcel Service, Inc. WPMR963 MADISON HEIGHTS IG APPLICANT IS A DELIVERY SERVICE. THE RADIOS WILL BE USED TO COORDINATE THE ESSENTIAL ACTIVITIES OF THE BUSINESS. 462.5125 DMR MO 5 X-Cel Industries, Inc. WQTT460 Southfield IG Radios used to coordinate activities around a coating facility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignallyCurious2 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 38 minutes ago, Lscott said: I did some more searching on another site. Assuming the frequency is really 462.5125 I found the following: 462.5125 DMR MO 4 ROCK SECURITY & EVENTS INC. WRAK353 PONTIAC IG SECURITY COMPANY: RADIOS WILL BE USED FOR COMMUNICATION BETWEEN EMPLOYEES 462.5125 DMR MO 4 United Parcel Service, Inc. WPMR963 MADISON HEIGHTS IG APPLICANT IS A DELIVERY SERVICE. THE RADIOS WILL BE USED TO COORDINATE THE ESSENTIAL ACTIVITIES OF THE BUSINESS. 462.5125 DMR MO 5 X-Cel Industries, Inc. WQTT460 Southfield IG Radios used to coordinate activities around a coating facility. I’ll check these out, I’m leaning heavily into the 14 mile and Coolidge intersection. American axle has been written up for this before. the two addresses with strongest locations have been: 4250 Normandy Ct, Royal Oak, MI 48073 -21.3db 2600 W 14 Mile Rd, Royal Oak, MI 48073 -29.3db Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkInTampa Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Might check this location out around 6 miles away from where you have been checking (Life Time Fitness) ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignallyCurious2 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 4 minutes ago, markskjerve said: Might check this location out around 6 miles away from where you have been checking... That’s too far. I’ve got it narrowed down to a 2 square mile radius. The signal is fixed and hits the same power at my home address daily. it’s within .5 mile of this water tower that has antenna arrays on it. 2725 Samoset Rd royal oak mi 48073 it also is not 462.5125, it’s closer to 462.53125 confirmed on 3 different SDR’s and a handheld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lscott Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 2 hours ago, SignallyCurious2 said: I’ll check these out, I’m leaning heavily into the 14 mile and Coolidge intersection. American axle has been written up for this before. the two addresses with strongest locations have been: 4250 Normandy Ct, Royal Oak, MI 48073 -21.3db 2600 W 14 Mile Rd, Royal Oak, MI 48073 -29.3db Yeah, their plant is on 14 mile right next to the railroad overpass. I've been by it enough times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lscott Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 2 hours ago, SignallyCurious2 said: it also is not 462.5125, it’s closer to 462.53125 confirmed on 3 different SDR’s and a handheld. Gives me another frequency to look up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lscott Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 I did some checking on AAM and there is only one possible. It's an expired license and the plant is located in Three Rivers. That's a long way away. https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/licenseFreqSum.jsp?licKey=1905276 The frequency listed is 462.3125. Hum, if some radio tech miss typed the frequency entry he could have hit 462.53125, added in the extra "5" after the decimal point. Somebody could be using an unlicensed frequency, never licensed, or continues to use one on a long expired license. It happens. The FCC seems really lax in cracking down on this crap. For example the ding-dongs at the Lakeside Mall, house keeping, are doing it. They are on the same frequency as the Troy GMRS repeater but a different PL tone. Their license expired in 2015, never renewed from what I can see in the FCC database, and they still use the frequency!!! Geez!!?? Oh, if you want to "test" their, illegally operating, GMRS repeater out its 462.575MHz/467.575MHz with a PL of 186.2Hz. You can key it up about 4 to 5 miles away with an HT easy enough. Anyway you narrow the search down and locate the likely source of interference keep us informed! ULS_License - Expired Mall FCC Licenses.pdf ULS License - General Mobile Radio (GMRS) License - KAB1523 - LAKESIDE GENERAL GROWTH PROPERTIES - Administration.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radioguy7268 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 3 hours ago, SignallyCurious2 said: it’s within .5 mile of this water tower that has antenna arrays on it. Do yourself a favor & search the term "intermod" as it relates to RF. What you're seeing is likely a product of 2 (or more) frequencies mixing & creating an un-intended 3rd frequency. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the water tower has some high powered stuff that's throwing out birdies & mixing with something else nearby. gortex2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignallyCurious2 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 1 hour ago, Radioguy7268 said: Do yourself a favor & search the term "intermod" as it relates to RF. What you're seeing is likely a product of 2 (or more) frequencies mixing & creating an un-intended 3rd frequency. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the water tower has some high powered stuff that's throwing out birdies & mixing with something else nearby. If that would be the case I would think I would be unable to decode the DMR messages, even though they’re encrypted, I am decoding DMR message blocks with subscriber info, AES key info, talkgroup info and color tables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignallyCurious2 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 With my gain set all the way down, the strongest signal reading yet is behind AAM, next to the water tower. it’s either on the water tower at 2725 Samoset Rd royal oak mi 48073 inside AAM On the rail tracks proper, owned and operated by CN - maybe this is a Canadian system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignallyCurious2 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkInTampa Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 1 hour ago, SignallyCurious2 said: With my gain set all the way down, the strongest signal reading yet is behind AAM, next to the water tower. it’s either on the water tower at 2725 Samoset Rd royal oak mi 48073 inside AAM On the rail tracks proper, owned and operated by CN - maybe this is a Canadian system? Try running the address on https://www.antennasearch.com/ . It maps out both registered and unregistered towers that the FCC doesn't show, might give you a bit more to go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lscott Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 1 hour ago, SignallyCurious2 said: On the rail tracks proper, owned and operated by CN - maybe this is a Canadian system? I would not suspect the railroad. They would either be FM, or they were moving to NXDN, but that's on VHF, not UHF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignallyCurious2 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 12 minutes ago, markskjerve said: Try running the address on https://www.antennasearch.com/ . It maps out both registered and unregistered towers that the FCC doesn't show, might give you a bit more to go on. Looks like it’s owned by the SE Oakland county water authority, I tried calling them an hour ago but their prompt says they left at 3. comparing that location with the readings I have make sense too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignallyCurious2 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 12 minutes ago, Lscott said: I would not suspect the railroad. They would either be FM, or they were moving to NXDN, but that's on VHF, not UHF. I agree, they’re still NBFM and the police are P25, but you can’t rule anything out when it comes to Canadians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lscott Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 2 minutes ago, SignallyCurious2 said: I agree, they’re still NBFM and the police are P25, but you can’t rule anything out when it comes to Canadians. Maybe. They still have to operate under US rules. Plus they need to communicate with other railroads, yards etc. That's likely going to be on VHF. Railroad - Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignallyCurious2 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Had to do some reverse engineering but found the FAA study approval for the water tower. it was some time ago, I’m going to follow up with the water authority tomorrow morning. With that height, it’s no wonder I can hear the signal everywhere I go. Some days it blows through all the way to 467 MHz. My home is line of sight as well. WRUU653 and SteveShannon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lscott Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Weather sucks today. I don't imagine you're going out to do any DF'ing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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