Land Mobile Radio

[VETCOMMS]

Just curious if anyone can direct me to resources about LMR.  I'm curious about cost of licensing as well as how others have gotten their LMR license, other than paying out the $$$ to the FCC.

[kidphc]

You don't really pay all that much to the fcc.

Now the local frequency coordinator. He's going to rob,rape and pillage you.

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[OffRoaderX]

There are many companies & business-radio resellers that will do all the paperwork and footwork for you, for a modest fee. Last month I got my LMR/Business license and 7 frequencies from a place called Kemp Wireless in Eugene Oregon - everything included was less than $400 if i recall correctly.  Basically they asked me a bunch of questions over the phone, I gave them my FRN info (YOU have to create an FRN/account on the FCC website) and 15 days later I had my LMR/Business License and my frequencies .

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, VETCOMMS said:

Just curious if anyone can direct me to resources about LMR.  I'm curious about cost of licensing as well as how others have gotten their LMR license, other than paying out the $$$ to the FCC.

There is a poster on this forum who just went through this. I hope he jumps in here and relates his experiences and some hints on saving you some frustration with the FCC.

[OffRoaderX]

3 minutes ago, Lscott said:

There is a poster on this forum who just went through this. I hope he jumps in here and relates his experiences

I just did.

[BoxCar]

Shop around for a coordinator. The FCC lists the authorized coordinators on its website. If you deal directly with the coordinator you save any dealer markup.

[VETCOMMS]

If I recall tree last time I was on the fcc website I had thoughts of monkeys doing things to footballs. 

I'll give it the old college try to find a freq coordinator.   

Does the xtl5000 have the capability to be used on multiple frequencies or does one only program it to the lmr frequency assigned to the business?  

[kidphc]

If I recall tree last time I was on the fcc website I had thoughts of monkeys doing things to footballs. 
I'll give it the old college try to find a freq coordinator.   
Does the xtl5000 have the capability to be used on multiple frequencies or does one only program it to the lmr frequency assigned to the business?  

It's single banded. Vhf, uhf r1, uhf r2.. etc.

If you want to do say vhf and uhf. To stay motorola you will need to dual brick or pay for a relatively rare apx7500 vhf/uhf (only rare because a majority are set to 700/800 and r2/r1.) Or even an apx8500.

Hence why I ended up buying a xg100m. 2m,70cm, 7/800 and vhf low (not really usable though).

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[OffRoaderX]

28 minutes ago, VETCOMMS said:

Does the xtl5000 have the capability to be used on multiple frequencies

YES.. although as mentioned, the XTL comes in EITHER a VHF model or a UHF model.  I have several XTL5000 UHF models and they are programmed with all GMRS channels, a dozen or so GMRS repeaters, a dozen or so more H.A.M. repeaters, as well as all of my business/LMR encrypted channels.

When you apply for your LMR/Business license you can choose to get UHF freqs, VHF freqs, or a combination of both.

[nokones]

If you don't know what the band range of your radio is, the 4th character in the model number from the left will designate the band range. "K" for VHF 138-174 MHz, "Q" 380-470 MHz, "S" 450-520 MHz, "U" 700/800 MHz, and "W" for 900 MHz. 

The channel capacity for the XTL5000 is 1,000 channel. The flashcode will tell you the feature set for that radio such as digital capable or analog only, conventional or Trunking Smartnet or Smartzone, and bunch of more features.

[VETCOMMS]

38 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

YES.. although as mentioned, the XTL comes in EITHER a VHF model or a UHF model.  I have several XTL5000 UHF models and they are programmed with all GMRS channels, a dozen or so GMRS repeaters, a dozen or so more H.A.M. repeaters, as well as all of my business/LMR encrypted channels.

When you apply for your LMR/Business license you can choose to get UHF freqs, VHF freqs, or a combination of both.

Giggity.   Muchos gracias.

[VETCOMMS]

23 minutes ago, nokones said:

If you don't know what the band range of your radio is, the 4th character in the model number from the left will designate the band range. "K" for VHF 138-174 MHz, "Q" 380-470 MHz, "S" 450-520 MHz, "U" 700/800 MHz, and "W" for 900 MHz. 

The channel capacity for the XTL5000 is 1,000 channel. The flashcode will tell you the feature set for that radio such as digital capable or analog only, conventional or Trunking Smartnet or Smartzone, and bunch of more features.

So is it possible to have a radio that does digital and analog, dual mode type use?  Or is it only possible to do one or the other?  

[OffRoaderX]

4 minutes ago, VETCOMMS said:

So is it possible to have a radio that does digital and analog, dual mode type use?

Pretty much all XTL5000's are Analog and Digital (P25) capable (at the same time).  Although i'm sure there are some out there that do only one or the other, I have never seen one (and I/we have gone through buying & setting up dozens for our local GMRS gang). 

[nokones]

Yes, there are some analog only units. I happen to have one, a remote mid-power unit with the "S" band range. I think I paid around $125.00 for it but I knew what I am getting and for that price it was not a bad price and it is just one of my many spares.

About a month or so maybe two months ago, there were several 450-520 MHz, "S" models, on eBay that only had two features flashed, conventional and one other and it wasn't the Q806 code for digital modulation.

At that time, there a ton of them for sale at a cheap price for the transceiver only on eBay.

[OffRoaderX]

3 minutes ago, nokones said:

there are some analog only units. I happen to have one

Well that sounds more like a XTL4999 !

Moral of the story: Know what you are buying.

[Lscott]

2 hours ago, VETCOMMS said:

So is it possible to have a radio that does digital and analog, dual mode type use?  Or is it only possible to do one or the other?  

All of the LMR type radios I’ve dealt with were mono band. As pointed out there are a few multi-band radios.

I haven’t ran across a radio that wasn’t dual mode, analog FM and one digital voice mode. There are some radios that have two or more digital voice modes, with analog FM, but are generally the newer more expensive models. If you’re interested in digital voice you need to decide which mode. 

I’m mainly a Kenwood guy but if you want to stick with Motorola I have a few that seem to be OK. Just be ABSOLUTELY sure you get the right band spread. If you want the cover the Ham 70cm band and GMRS then you want the 400 to 470 range.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/261-motorola-xpr6550jpeg/?context=new

This radio will do wide and narrow FM along with DMR, Digital Mobile Radio, which is reasonably popular on the Ham bands.

[gortex2]

Back to FCC licensing. As said above find a frequency coordinator. Also depending on the "business" service it may require a certain coordinator. Not all coordinators deal with all services in regards to that. Public Safety coordinators normally focus on that while other focus on B&I frequencies. Also depending on your location the license can take forever (Above Line A) as it will need to go to Canada for approval. It took us over 2 years to get approval for the last SAR frequency we got in NY. In the south a standard business license will be processed by your coordinator and then tru the FCC pretty quickly. It will also depend on if your looking for just simplex channels or repeater or multisite repeaters. Thats really were the coordinator and your self need to do some work. 

[nokones]

9 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

Well that sounds more like a XTL4999 !

Moral of the story: Know what you are buying.

There's that word again, "moral" coming back in a discussion.

Yes, there are not too many XTL4999s these days and if "some people" need to have a radio flashed for digital modulation that you will probably never use, then go for it.

If you are looking to buy a Motorola radio, you should always decode the flashcode before you make purchase so you know what you are buying. Most sellers on eBay don't have a clue on what they are selling.

In my case, I knew the radio was analog only by decoding the flashcode prior to buying the radio. I rarely use the channels I have set for digital modulation these days. Back in my competitive racing days I used them quite frequently.

So, when I bought this radio, I didn't think that I would ever have a need for using a digital channel since most of my radios are used these days on GMRS freqs and the fact that this radio was purchased as a spare. And it's been eons since I had a need for using a digital channel.

Please note:

There were no marbles from Denmark harmed or abused in this posting.

[VETCOMMS]

I like radios.  Always have.  Will spend hours pecking away at my phone on this website because of it.  I own a business and the idea of encrypted digital voice or at least digital voice alone (DMR) with a repeater on the building,  a mobile in the truck and PERHAPS a couple of handhelds would be pretty neat.  I'm learning from you all if/how to best do this. 

Digital interests me because most people (maybe I'm wrong on this) listening on their analog only radios will only hear the machine gun buzz of a digital transmission,  which I like the idea of.

But I also like listening to the analog frequencies as well, so that's why I have a cheap dual band mobile at my disposal.

I know very little about the intricacies of P25 vs DMR vs YSF vs WIRESX so that's why I'm here asking questions.   

This might turn into a boxers vs briefs or Chevy vs Ford answer, but is one digital voice mode more user friendly and easier to program/obtain/work with, than another?

 

 

[OffRoaderX]

1 hour ago, VETCOMMS said:

is one digital voice mode more user friendly and easier to program/obtain/work with, than another?

It has been my experience that P25 is much easier to setup/program than DMR. Both can do a LOT, and neither are 'easy'..  But setting up standard (non-trunked) P25 on simplex or a repeater is very straight-forward and setting up encrypted P25 is also pretty easy AFTER you know what to do.

[SteveShannon]

7 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

It has been my experience that P25 is much easier to setup/program than P25. Both can do a LOT, and neither are 'easy'..  But setting up standard (non-trunked) P25 on simplex or a repeater is very straight-forward and setting up encrypted P25 is also pretty easy AFTER you know what to do.

Is it possible that your first sentence has an error?

[OffRoaderX]

It has been my experience that P25 is much easier to setup/program than DMR..

..it was like 6:20AM, I just dragged my body out of bed and had not yet ingested any caffeine!

[WRUU653]

17 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

 

..it was like 6:20AM, I just dragged my body out of bed and had not yet ingested any caffeine!

Posting before caffeine is not advised… wait what am I doing? Never mind I got to go get my first coffee. ️ 

[kidphc]

I like radios.  Always have.  Will spend hours pecking away at my phone on this website because of it.  I own a business and the idea of encrypted digital voice or at least digital voice alone (DMR) with a repeater on the building,  a mobile in the truck and PERHAPS a couple of handhelds would be pretty neat.  I'm learning from you all if/how to best do this. 
Digital interests me because most people (maybe I'm wrong on this) listening on their analog only radios will only hear the machine gun buzz of a digital transmission,  which I like the idea of.
But I also like listening to the analog frequencies as well, so that's why I have a cheap dual band mobile at my disposal.
I know very little about the intricacies of P25 vs DMR vs YSF vs WIRESX so that's why I'm here asking questions.   
This might turn into a boxers vs briefs or Chevy vs Ford answer, but is one digital voice mode more user friendly and easier to program/obtain/work with, than another?
 
 

Real high level.

Dmr = mototurbo timeslot digital (one of the better option for businesses requiring encryption. No encryption for amateur usage but encryption is ok for lmr usage

Ysf = yeasu fusion proprietary c4fm digital. Negative it is only available to yeasu radios in native format. No encryption allowed.

Wirex = ysf with internet connectivity

Apco p25= c4fm (not the same as ysf and not compatible, but same technology) standardized for public safety. This can be analog. It can also be conventional p25 (used in simplex/with a repeater). Trunked you have a control frequency that tells the radios what frequency and talkgroup that can be used. It usually requires multiple frequencies.

Benefit with digital with encryption. Is even if someone has the equipment, and the frequency and all the settings. That theu can't listen onto encrypted channels without the keys. It does require additional cost with a xtl5k/xts5k you will need a key loader like a motorola kvl, the cables and keys and entitlement enabled.

Analog is always easier to work on then digital and usually cheaper.

Pic of a buddies kvl3000 I was working. Attached below.http://files.mygmrs.com/forums/monthly_2024_04/FB_IMG_1713707770436.thumb.jpg.10a150798755507a315db1f20c958a8a.jpg

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[OffRoaderX]

1 minute ago, kidphc said:

It does require additional cost with a xtl5k/xts5k you will need a key loader

Incorrect.  The Motorolas can do "ADP" encryption which does not require a key-loader.. ADP is not as strong as AES256 (which does require a key-loader), but it is MORE than good-enough for anyone not transmitting state-secrets or plotting another unplanned group-tour of The Capitol.

[kidphc]

Incorrect.  The Motorolas can do "ADP" encryption which does not require a key-loader.. ADP is not as strong as AES256 (which does require a key-loader), but it is MORE than good-enough for anyone not transmitting state-secrets or plotting another unplanned group-tour of The Capitol.

Stand corrected then.

I don't load encryption keys on my radios. All my hexedits and feature additions are done by handful of friends. They are the ones that actually know the intricacies.

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