The Mesa Crest Repeater Club Clarifying the MISS INFORMATION

[TMCRC]

This post is to clarify all the MISS INFORMATION being put out there by the 700 Verdugo Repeater owner. As everyone knows by now our Club has also put up a repeater on 700 on Santiago Peak.

We did send an email to the Verdugo repeater owner. He has completely flipped what the email said which will be provided at the end of this draft.

The Verdugo repeater owner has made death threats over the air and where recorded and will be turned over to the authorities. The individual claims we sent a cease-and-desist letter which never happened. He also claims we pushed out the Spanish speaking repeater on the other frequency we have a repeater on. I am happy to inform you they are still there. We are not here to push anyone out or take over a frequency, as these GMRS repeater pairs are to be shared per FCC rules. No one owns these GMRS frequencies and drawing claim to them is just ridicules. We are a Club and we do adhere to all FCC rules.

Image of the email sent below

Edited June 14 by TMCRC

[GreggInFL]

Unfortunate.  Isn't this what tones are for?

[OffRoaderX]

5 hours ago, GreggInFL said:

Isn't this what tones are for?

Yahhh..  But..  When you have a blow-torch like Mesa West that high on the mountain, it can still garble/cause interference for the other repeater if both are in use at the exact same time.

We ran into the exact same trouble on .700 when our "Delta" repeater was up, and it wasnt in as good of a location.. But rumor has it that it might have had  more power ...

[nokones]

I think both repeaters should run carrier squelch on the downlink so they can share the air. It can work very well.

[TMCRC]

10 minutes ago, nokones said:

I think both repeaters should run carrier squelch on the downlink so they can share the air. It can work very well.

Unfortunately, the gentlemen isn't willing to hold a conversation but much rather turn to hate and violence. Very unfortunate but I guess it's the world we live in now.

[OffRoaderX]

1 hour ago, TMCRC said:

the gentlemen isn't willing to hold a conversation but much rather turn to hate and violence

Sounds like i need to be chatting with the boys on Mesa West about Boofwhang radios and the weather more often!

[WRUE951]

this is going on in a lot of areas.. Especially in 'busy' cities  fued's and 'stomping' is only getting more popular and intentional.   Kind of reminds me of the CB hay day..  Even a week out camping trying to use these GMRS radios turns into fiesta of jack-wads..  Certainly has gotten pretty bad in the last two years.  

[WRXT271]

A letter that I wrote to FCC and a response that I received: 

Mr. Cassato,

Thank you for reaching out.  We appreciate you raising the issue and your suggestion was provided to the staff responsible for the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS).

If you would like to formally petition the FCC to change its rules then you may file a Petition for Rulemaking through the Electronic Comment Filing System (ECFS). To do so, you would go to “Submit a Filing” and then select “Submit a Non-Docketed Filing.” You can find that webpage at the following link: https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings/nodocket. When submitting a Petition for Rulemaking, in the first drop-down box, please be sure to select “INBOX-1.401 | Petition for Rulemaking.”

The procedures for what must be covered in a Petition for Rulemaking can be found in Section 1.401 of the FCC rules at: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-1/subpart-C/subject-group-ECFR9dcd67279c4756f. Please note that there are other rules referenced within this rule part that you must adhere to when filing a Petition for Rulemaking.

I hope that this information is helpful.

Thank you,

Joshua Smith

Assistant Division Chief

Mobility Division

Wireless Telecommunications Bureau

(717)-338-2502

Joshua.Smith@fcc.gov

 

 

From: Richard j. Cassato <WRXT271@aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2023 1:49 PM
To: Jessica Rosenworcel <Jessica.Rosenworcel@fcc.gov>
Subject: [EXTERNAL]: Additional GMRS repeater frequency pairs

 

 

 

Hi Ms, Rosenworcel,

 

Ia there anyway that the FCC could consider assigning 8 additional repeater pairs for GMRS that do not have FRS traffic on them?

The use of FRS radios in restaurants, schools and other businesses is extremely aggressive on the 8 repeater pairs.

Thank You for reading this.

Richard J. Cassato

WRXT271

[WRXT271]

So it looks like there is a way for repeater owners to petition for more pairs. A consortium of repeater owners must contact a communications attorney to do the petition correctly. OR Repeater owners can just keep fighting like little children and absolultly nothing will get accomplished.. 

[dosw]

Well, for that to go anywhere it would be a year or so of petitions, a couple years of hearings, and a couple years before manufacturers start making radios with the new pairs (of course those with chirp or proprietary software for programming will not need to wait). But even with new pairs, and software, a lot of radios aren't going to transmit outside of today's GMRS frequencies. They're not supposed to be easily modifiable, right?

[SteveShannon]

Where would the additional pairs come from?  Any petition would have to solve that. 

[nokones]

One thought on where additional pairs can be reallocated, is mandate Narrowband emissions (2.5 KHz/12.5 KHz) on all GMRS/FRS channels. Regulate all FRS to only .5 watt ERP and allow the existing Interstitial channels be additional main GMRS channels with 50 watts of output power to the antenna. That would provide a total of 15 main GMRS channels without any refarming of spectrum from other radio services.

[SvenMarbles]

Out of curiosity, is your repeater a public one and does your new repeater provide a new coverage bubble for people in your area that some other repeater didn't already provide?

[SvenMarbles]

It looks like the metro Los Angeles area is pretty well covered under some monsters atop of those mountains.. It there any particular motivation for wanting to add redundant repeaters for the area, to the extent that you're bugging another one? Aside from just desiring to be an owner of a public repeater?

[WRUE951]

And still many people seem to forget that GMRS/FRS including the repeater option and usage is meant for personal family usage.    i just LMAO over the number of people that treat GMRS like its meant as a tool for business purposes or similar to communications in the HAM radio world...  And i get a bigger chuckle over the good handful of folks out there that have 10,15 and even 20 repeaters in operation then get mad because someone is on 'their' frequency..   BTW,,  FCC petitions is a standard way to blow you off.     Have fun..   Some of us get a good laugh out of this.  

[WRJE247]

I think the FCC should just leave GMRS as is and if you want other frequencies, use other radio services.  Simple as that. 

If you are wanting to experiment with radio, get into amateur radio.  If you need frequencies for business, use LMR.  I doubt there is very much room in the UHF band there for more pairs as there are commercial freqs peppered throughout (at least here in the midwest).

[WRUE951]

2 minutes ago, WRJE247 said:

I think the FCC should just leave GMRS as is and if you want other frequencies, use other radio services.  Simple as that. 

If you are wanting to experiment with radio, get into amateur radio.  If you need frequencies for business, use LMR.  I doubt there is very much room in the UHF band there for more pairs as there are commercial freqs peppered throughout (at least here in the midwest).

i agree 100%

[SvenMarbles]

I got into GMRS so that I could have sort of a family radio situation. Big home radio and mobiles in the cars. It would be cool to be able to use it for that, if it weren't full of 40cm ham radio like traffic. Kind of makes it intimidating for the wife or kids to hop on and raise me on my way home with plans, grocery list, or any other pertinent info for a 3 minute radio exchange.. In one case my wife being chastised for "interrupting a conversation" (about nothing in particular).

I'm not going to pretend that radio isn't a hobby for me as well, and I definitely nerd out on it and appreciate why everyone else does as well. But guys,.. TECHNICALLY "all of this"  isn't the correct use of GMRS.. It's not a coincidence that GMRS is FRS adjacent. The technician ham ticket is super easy to obtain. It's 26 right out of 35 multiple choice. It's like a driving license written test. Just read the pamphlet a bit before you take it and you'll pass. Now you've got endless 440 and even 2 meter repeaters to do the radio guy thing on...

The repeater situation is a mess. I appreciate the effort and money that individuals choose to spend on erecting them, but I also worry that they might do it with the mind of the aforementioned "ham type activity". There's some AWESOME repeaters out here, and I love to use them (unlinked). But then made to feel like an intruder for wanting to use it for the purpose I am trying to. The sentiment is then, "well it's their machine".. That's true but it's not their repeater pair. If I were inclined to put something up high myself, like one of those Retevis things,  WHAT FREQUENCY PAIR AM I TO USE? Because they're all used up with this kind of stuff...

I don't want to fight, but what's right is right (and I'm about 85% certain that I represent righteousness on this issue lol). There's clearly a place for hobby radio and we all know where that is. GMRS is more of a practical use band. When the people trying to use it practically are being made to feel out of place from the ones doing ham radio lite, I think it's a problem.. I don't think "the framers" of this GMRS thing envisioned enormous repeaters, and even linked ones. That's why our current 8 allotted is getting slammed. It was probably more along the lines of a Retevis thing, and in that case, spread around the country it would've never been a problem..

There's a gentlemens solution to it. Yield to the family or group users and be nice. They're the ones actually in the correct spot. Just keep that in mind. Otherwise, it's really easy, inexpensive, and nearly impossible to solve the issue of a person whose decided to wage a war on an obnoxious repeater, and I'll let you interpret that any way that you'd like... So let's all just be a bunch of Fonzies..

 

 

[SvenMarbles]

Also,.. Stop erecting new repeaters for the sake of it.. Just because YOU want to admin a public repeater. If that metro area is well covered by other machines, what even is your motivation for doing a new one, and to the extent that it's annoying another one? It wreaks of a person just wanting to have a "thing to lord over"..  Stoppit.

[Socalgmrs]

37 minutes ago, SvenMarbles said:

I got into GMRS so that I could have sort of a family radio situation. Big home radio and mobiles in the cars. It would be cool to be able to use it for that, if it weren't full of 40cm ham radio like traffic. Kind of makes it intimidating for the wife or kids to hop on and raise me on my way home with plans, grocery list, or any other pertinent info for a 3 minute radio exchange.. In one case my wife being chastised for "interrupting a conversation" (about nothing in particular).

I'm not going to pretend that radio isn't a hobby for me as well, and I definitely nerd out on it and appreciate why everyone else does as well. But guys,.. TECHNICALLY "all of this"  isn't the correct use of GMRS.. It's not a coincidence that GMRS is FRS adjacent. The technician ham ticket is super easy to obtain. It's 26 right out of 35 multiple choice. It's like a driving license written test. Just read the pamphlet a bit before you take it and you'll pass. Now you've got endless 440 and even 2 meter repeaters to do the radio guy thing on...

The repeater situation is a mess. I appreciate the effort and money that individuals choose to spend on erecting them, but I also worry that they might do it with the mind of the aforementioned "ham type activity". There's some AWESOME repeaters out here, and I love to use them (unlinked). But then made to feel like an intruder for wanting to use it for the purpose I am trying to. The sentiment is then, "well it's their machine".. That's true but it's not their repeater pair. If I were inclined to put something up high myself, like one of those Retevis things,  WHAT FREQUENCY PAIR AM I TO USE? Because they're all used up with this kind of stuff...

I don't want to fight, but what's right is right (and I'm about 85% certain that I represent righteousness on this issue lol). There's clearly a place for hobby radio and we all know where that is. GMRS is more of a practical use band. When the people trying to use it practically are being made to feel out of place from the ones doing ham radio lite, I think it's a problem.. I don't think "the framers" of this GMRS thing envisioned enormous repeaters, and even linked ones. That's why our current 8 allotted is getting slammed. It was probably more along the lines of a Retevis thing, and in that case, spread around the country it would've never been a problem..

There's a gentlemens solution to it. Yield to the family or group users and be nice. They're the ones actually in the correct spot. Just keep that in mind. Otherwise, it's really easy, inexpensive, and nearly impossible to solve the issue of a person whose decided to wage a war on an obnoxious repeater, and I'll let you interpret that any way that you'd like... So let's all just be a bunch of Fonzies..

 

 

Just an fyi.  The existing repeaters in the area in question are the rude and obnoxios repeaters they are open to any one at all.    They are the type of repeaters you stated you and your wife are not comfortable on.   On the other hand the Mesa crest and Mesa west repeaters are not public but only for private for club members.   The Mesa crest repeater club is 100% family oriented.  Every one in The club has agreed to this and keeps it that way.  The Mesa crest repeater club has many women and some children that jump on and use it to talk to other family members and friends.  The new Mesa west repeater was not erected just for the sake of it.  It was an expansion of a family repeater club for the exact reasons you are expressing.  It’s to bad you do not live in the area. You may find the club very  welcoming and the repeaters very useful.  

[SvenMarbles]

7 minutes ago, WRXP381 said:

Just an fyi.  The existing repeaters in the area in question are the rude and obnoxios repeaters they are open to any one at all.    They are the type of repeaters you stated you and your wife are not comfortable on.   On the other hand the Mesa crest and Mesa west repeaters are not public but only for private for club members.   The Mesa crest repeater club is 100% family oriented.  Every one in The club has agreed to this and keeps it that way.  The Mesa crest repeater club has many women and some children that jump on and use it to talk to other family members and friends.  The new Mesa west repeater was not erected just for the sake of it.  It was an expansion of a family repeater club for the exact reasons you are expressing.  It’s to bad you do not live in the area. You may find the club very  welcoming and the repeaters very useful.  

Well them I'm about this Mesa Crest Repeater! lol.. But i'm nowhere near that region of the the country.... But if you're telling me that this group built this repeater sort of "on my type of crusade" then I support it...

[TMCRC]

On 6/20/2024 at 8:43 PM, SvenMarbles said:

Well them I'm about this Mesa Crest Repeater! lol.. But i'm nowhere near that region of the the country.... But if you're telling me that this group built this repeater sort of "on my type of crusade" then I support it...

Yes Sir, The Mesa Crest Repeater Club Here, after a year of monitoring and listening to other repeaters (not saying there isn't any other good repeaters out there) the stuff being broadcasted was not something I wanted to have my wife and kids to be subject to. So, we created this Club. A Club that abides by the FCC rules and keeps everything PG for the kids and our wife's to be comfortable enough to also enjoy the hobby and as you stated be able to use GMRS as it was intended. We are not here to tell anyone what to do with their equipment or push anyone out but to share the airways as stated in the FCC rules. We are 100% Family Oriented and we will do everything in our power to keep our repeaters that way. On our repeater request it even lets anyone wanting to join that we are a Family Oriented Repeater Club. I have to say we have a great Club, Members are very respectful and love that there is finally a repeater based on Family Values. Hope you have a great day.

 

The Mesa Crest Repeater Club

[WRUE951]

When I go up to Lake Crawley and fire up my portable repeater it gets a hell of a lot of use from boaters and campers, young and old alike.  Kids even love it, they have a lot of fun with radio and i get a kick out of listening to them. .   When i pack up and leave everyone misses the heck out using the portable repeater.    Camping families are able to take their radios and keep in touch with camp from the lake all the way into Mammoth..  When someone needs to make a shopping run, they always use the repeater..  It was always hard for me to shut it down when i left. But someone has finally erected a permanent repeater in the area and it works great..  I hope it attracts the family side and it gets good use..   GMRS can be fun for everyone if it is used for the right purpose.  

[WRYC373]

You may petition the FCC and I support your Civic powers to do so. The issue is where would the FCC pull frequencies from. GMRS is smack dab in the middle of the LMR(PART 90) allocations.

35$ users are not going to convince the FCC to move paid LMR Freqs from businesses to GMRS.

 

GMRS is also not narrowbanded like UHF LMR. Meaning one repeater pair is potentially taking a lot of frequencies away from LMR. LMR is also regionally coordinated as ham radio is meaning there is a band coordinator per region that would need to be involved. 

[nokones]

5 hours ago, WRYC373 said:

GMRS is also not narrowbanded like UHF LMR. Meaning one repeater pair is potentially taking a lot of frequencies away from LMR.

There's an easy fix for that, the FCC should mandate that all GMRS channels be narrowband and allow the interstitial channels become main GMRS channels and regulate all FRS channels to .5 watt operation. By rule, the FRS channels are already regulated for narrowband operation. If all the FRS channels are regulated to a .5 watt operation, the channels can be shared between the GMRS and FRS services with minimal impact between the two services. This would give seven additional channel pairs for GMRS without reallocation any Part 90 freqs to GMRS.