Manually entering a frequency to assigned channel

[WSFG668]

First, THANK YOU to all the experts on this site, that helps us newbys! We appreciate your willingness to share your expertise!

Ok, my question: My TD-H3 has all the GMRS channels/frequencies programmed into my radio. If I want to manually enter a frequency into channel 1 (let say 441.000) for simplex coms with my son 3 miles away, which is NOT an established GMRS frequency, is this newly formed channel/freq still considered GMRS? Does the fact that my radio is 5w and default set to GMRS make it so, no matter the frequency?

SORRY IF CONFUSING!! 

Brian Osborne, WSFG668

[Socalgmrs]

On a gmrs certified radio you will not be able to transmit on anytning but gmrs channels.  Gmrs has only 22 simplex plus 8 467 repeater inputs .  440 is not a gmrs channel and a gmrs radio will not tx on that channel.  And if you get a ham radio that will tx on 440 and you do that with out a license for that frequency you are in violation.    This is the type of thing you agreed to abide by and you said you already read when you signed up for your gmrs license.  
 

so might want to go back and read the refs you said you read already when you agreed to them. 

[WSFG668]

Understand! The question was posted because I did, in-fact, know and understand the rules for operating within the GMRS parameters (frequency ranges) and was puzzled by the instructional video I watched about entering/assigning frequencies to a channel, but one thing I didn’t take into consideration at the time, was the guy making the video had a HAM license, so he could operate in the frequencies outside GMRS i imagine.

Thank You!

[Socalgmrs]

Not trying to be a jerk but if you already know the rules then you would not have had to ask.  And if you had lead with all the info regarding the question and your confusion the answer while being the same may have been even easier to explain.   

[WSFG668]

Understanding the rules……hearing something that possibly conflicts or causes confusion raises questions. Been in the game 2 days! Thought this was the place to gain knowledge and ask questions.

Grace and Mercy!

God Bless!

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, WSFG668 said:

Understand! The question was posted because I did, in-fact, know and understand the rules for operating within the GMRS parameters (frequency ranges) and was puzzled by the instructional video I watched about entering/assigning frequencies to a channel, but one thing I didn’t take into consideration at the time, was the guy making the video had a HAM license, so he could operate in the frequencies outside GMRS i imagine.

Thank You!

Just one more thing. There is nothing wrong programming in non GMRS frequencies if all you want to do is “monitor” them. You just need the correct license to transmit on those. Some specifically designed GMRS radios allow out of band frequencies, but those will only work on receiving.

[WSFG668]

Monitoring is valuable for gaining info and knowing what is going on during emergencies. No need to transmit, just listen and be “in the know”.

Thanks so much for the info! 

[BoxCar]

Just because "I saw it on the Internet" doesn't necessarily imply it is correct or complete information. You need to know and understand the source and their agenda in accepting the information as correct. With radios, the allowable frequencies and uses are set by both regulation and treaty. Treaties between countries are important as radio waves do not respect borders so agreements are needed to mesh the use between different purposes as defined by each. As an example, Canada has assigned different uses for some radio frequencies than they are in the US. The treaty allowing some frequencies to be used also blocks others because the frequency is intended for a different use in their country. I

[WRXB215]

@WSFG668 You probably will not be able to program that frequency into any of the simplex or repeater channels. If your radio has what is often called "DIY" channels, that is where you would program frequencies like that.

[amaff]

13 hours ago, WSFG668 said:

If I want to manually enter a frequency into channel 1 (let say 441.000) for simplex coms with my son 3 miles away, which is NOT an established GMRS frequency, is this newly formed channel/freq still considered GMRS?

Is... is the not GMRS frequency... considered GMRS?

.........no.

13 hours ago, WSFG668 said:

Does the fact that my radio is 5w and default set to GMRS make it so, no matter the frequency?

Still no. A GMRS locked radio wouldn't let you do that anyhow. They'll usually let you *listen* on 441, but it wouldn't let you transmit. Just because you can put a frequency into a radio doesn't change the FCC's frequency allocation.

[WRHS218]

13 hours ago, Socalgmrs said:

On a gmrs certified radio you will not be able to transmit on anytning but gmrs channels.  Gmrs has only 22 simplex plus 8 467 repeater inputs .  440 is not a gmrs channel and a gmrs radio will not tx on that channel.

That is your answer from Socalgmrs. I know the TD-H3 can be configured via certain buttons pushed during power on to be GMRS, HAM, or both but that does not make any frequency outside of the fixed number of "channels" GMRS. As previously stated, if your radio is GMRS certified it will not be able to TX on your example frequency 441.000 or any other freq outside of GMRS. If your radio will TX on 441.000 it does not make that frequency GMRS. Again, you can monitor any frequency you want you just shouldn't be able to TX on any non GMRS frequency on a GMRS certified radio.

Those are the rules (not laws). What you do with those regulations is up to you. As long as you are not being a douche canoe with what ever radio you are using the worst thing that will probably happen is you piss off a bunch of people. And it would appear you are already off to a good start doing that...

[dosw]

13 hours ago, WSFG668 said:

First, THANK YOU to all the experts on this site, that helps us newbys! We appreciate your willingness to share your expertise!

Ok, my question: My TD-H3 has all the GMRS channels/frequencies programmed into my radio. If I want to manually enter a frequency into channel 1 (let say 441.000) for simplex coms with my son 3 miles away, which is NOT an established GMRS frequency, is this newly formed channel/freq still considered GMRS? Does the fact that my radio is 5w and default set to GMRS make it so, no matter the frequency?

SORRY IF CONFUSING!! 

Brian Osborne, WSFG668

No. Entering 441.0000 into the radio and transmitting on that frequency is illegal unless you have a ham license, because 441 is between 420-450MHz, which are amateur/ham frequencies. You will be overstepping your license privileges. Additionally, by setting your H3 in a mode that allows it to transmit outside of the specific 22 GMRS channels and eight repeater channels, you have invalidated its type-acceptance for GMRS, and it is no longer a GMRS radio (unless you reset it back).

Pretty much every frequency in the UHF / VHF bands belongs to someone else. It's very risky just punching in a number that you don't hear traffic on and hitting the push-to-talk. Your confusion is why GMRS radios are not supposed to be able to transmit on anything except for GMRS channels; to keep people who don't know better from making this mistake.

[JoCoBrian]

This is why GMRS licensees need to pass a basic test. 

[nokones]

If the subject radio has a FCC ID of 2A4FBTD831, this radio does not have any Type-Accepted to transmit on any freq between 450-470 MHz, thus can not legally transmit on any Part 90 & 95 allocated frequency in that range. It is my understanding that Part 97 radio devices do not need a Type-Acceptance to transmit on 420-450 MHz freqs.

[nokones]

52 minutes ago, JoCoBrian said:

This is why GMRS licensees need to pass a basic test. 

Passing a basic test by memorizing the published test answers does not make a person knowledgeable on the subject. It just gives the "Less-Than-Knowledgeable person  with a good memory of the test answers authorization to transmit on freqs that they have no business of doing so. The Technician License Test requirements is a joke when it really does not serve any purpose other than separate people with good memories from the people that can't remember/retain the published test answer information that has nothing to do with the legal operation of radio devices in a specific band.  Show me one question on the Technician License Test that demonstrates the person's knowledge/skill/ability to properly program and operate a radio device, suchas the TID TD-H3 or a Motorola XTS5000 "Q" model radio device on the subject radio band (2M or 70cm).

[GreggInFL]

59 minutes ago, JoCoBrian said:

This is why GMRS licensees need to pass a basic test. 

Like navigating the FCC website?

[SteveShannon]

On 10/22/2024 at 8:32 AM, nokones said:

Passing a basic test by memorizing the published test answers does not make a person knowledgeable on the subject. It just gives the "Less-Than-Knowledgeable person  with a good memory of the test answers authorization to transmit on freqs that they have no business of doing so. The Technician License Test requirements is a joke when it really does not serve any purpose other than separate people with good memories from the people that can't remember/retain the published test answer information that has nothing to do with the legal operation of radio devices in a specific band.  Show me one question on the Technician License Test that demonstrates the person's knowledge/skill/ability to properly operate a radio device, suchas the TID TD-H3 or a Motorola XTS5000 "Q" model radio device on the subject radio band (2M or 70cm).

I guess I don’t understand your beef about memorization. The first section of the Technician test is a test on the rules of amateur radio. Of course you have to learn the rules. Learning requires memorizing. And, yes, separating the people who cannot learn the rules from those who can is the goal. People who don’t learn the rules don’t get licenses. 
The second section is operating procedures, such as “A common offset for70 cm is?”  The answer is +/- 5.000 MHz.  
That’s exactly the kind of question that works well for memorization. Understanding comes with use.

Section 3?  How about this: Question: What is the effect of vegetation on UHF and microwave signals?  Answer: Absorption 

Again, memorizing these questions and answers is a perfectly valid form of learning.

I’m not even sure how a person could possibly memorize the answers without learning something.

[WRUU653]

14 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Again, memorizing these questions and answers is a perfectly valid form of learning.

I’m not even sure how a person could possibly memorize the answers without learning something.

Exactly!!! The memorizing argument is ridiculous, How did you learn anything ever in life without some memorizing. Even as a kid we used flash cards to help learn things. For sure hands on helps with retention but there is no retention without memory. 

[WRXB215]

@nokones I understand your sentiment but as @SteveShannon pointed out, the test actually dose have a lot to do with legal operation. When you get your ham license, you can use whatever equipment you want as long as you make sure your equipment and usage stays within your privileges. With GMRS, it is assumed that the GMRS type-certified equipment is going to do that for you.

[WRKW566]

1 hour ago, nokones said:

Passing a basic test by memorizing the published test answers does not make a person knowledgeable on the subject. It just gives the "Less-Than-Knowledgeable person  with a good memory of the test answers authorization to transmit on freqs that they have no business of doing so. The Technician License Test requirements is a joke when it really does not serve any purpose other than separate people with good memories from the people that can't remember/retain the published test answer information that has nothing to do with the legal operation of radio devices in a specific band.  Show me one question on the Technician License Test that demonstrates the person's knowledge/skill/ability to properly program and operate a radio device, suchas the TID TD-H3 or a Motorola XTS5000 "Q" model radio device on the subject radio band (2M or 70cm).

You can "learn" to ride a bicycle but it takes memory to know what the hands on a watch mean. A blind person can learn to operate a car but they will have a much harder time learning where the road is. Your memory lets you decern a road from a ditch (sorry, has to be a Jeep joke here someplace) and without your memory, the hands on a watch mean nothing.

The amateur radio exams do not care what kind of bike you ride, they are tests to determine what you know about the road and the watch hands, the Jeep, Rolex, or Kenwood just are not part of it.