Advice needed... two radios and two antennas to optimize.

[WSEM262]

OK... I currently have both ham and GMRS licenses... so that 'kinda forces me into using two radios. 

I have a Mars modded Yaesu FTM200D and a Radioddity DB20G mounted in my 2020 Tundra.

The Yaesu is connected to a Comet 2x4SRNMO mounted on the hood lip at the cowl.

The DB20G is connected to a Midland MXT26 mounted on the roof rack above my fiberglass topper/truck cap. I understand this is far from ideal... as Im not providing a ground plane at all.

In both instances, the SWR's are acceptable (under 2:1) but far from where I'd like to see them. I feel there is much room for improvement in both radio systems.

I'd love to just use the Yaesu for everything... but the wide range of frequencies make it super difficult to find an antenna that performs at 2 meter / MURS / 70cm and GMRS frequencies... so Im fine with two radios/antennas.

 

Now for the million dollar question.

What are the two best antennas I can buy and where/how is the best place to mount them ?

I have decided I am OK with drilling holes in my roof if needed, but that will involve dropping the headliner and pulling half my interior apart. 

My other concern is overhead clearance... as my truck sits pretty high and it sometimes goes up in the air on my lift, leaving little room for antennas on the roof. 

 

Lets hear some ideas...  I will followup with my decision and the end result once its all upgraded. 

[WRYZ926]

Just now, dosw said:

There's a spring kit available for it. https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/cma-ca-spr 

It's $22, which doesn't seem unreasonably expensive. It's too bad they don't sell a spring version to begin with.

I have that spring kit installed. But that won't save the antenna if I forget to fold it with 7ft garage doors.

[Lscott]

4 minutes ago, WRYZ926 said:

I have that spring kit installed. But that won't save the antenna if I forget to fold it with 7ft garage doors.

Oops.

I have an older Comet antenna, CA-2x4MB, no longer manufactured unfortunately, that was really wide banded. I think it was better than the 4SR. No ground plane too. Looks like a higher gain version of the 4SR but taller. Even on my Mazda SUV I have to look out for low tree limbs while driving around. The one in the photo is over 20+ years old. I have a spare still in the green Comet bag they come in that's never seen the outside world.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/471-mobile-mount-with-antenna-rear-view/?context=new

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/469-antenna-collectionjpg/?context=new

 

[kidphc]

I had a similar issue with my trucks.

1.) I dismount my antennas and place a cap (sometimes don't even bother with the cap). When i was placing my truck on the lift. Hell this was in a commercial bay with 22' ceilings even there if I didn't pull the antennas they would be bent or strike the roll up garage doors.

2.) Best antennas, this is very subjective. With trying to be widebanded to cover both services there are a crap ton of compromises. It gets even worse when you look at hood mounts etc.

I currently am running a 2/70sh on a hood mount for the FTM400 cap modded. With a Laird B4505cns on the roof connected to a XTL 5000.

I had the 2x4sr, it performed well but even on the shoulder it took terrible whacks entering the parking garages.

So instead of dealing with the fold-over I went back the Larsen. It has taken a beating the top half of the antenna is bent and the coating is missing all over the place.

Even the Laird has a bend in it. Normally now a days I switch to a 1/4 or 5/8th Laird that I modified with a Signal stalk whip for potential garage excursions.

Are you trying to maximize simplex or repeater work on both radios?




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[SteveShannon]

27 minutes ago, WSEM262 said:

OK... I currently have both ham and GMRS licenses... so that 'kinda forces me into using two radios. 

I have a Mars modded Yaesu FTM200D and a Radioddity DB20G mounted in my 2020 Tundra.

The Yaesu is connected to a Comet 2x4SRNMO mounted on the hood lip at the cowl.

The DB20G is connected to a Midland MXT26 mounted on the roof rack above my fiberglass topper/truck cap. I understand this is far from ideal... as Im not providing a ground plane at all.

I both instances, the SWR's are acceptable (under 2:1) but far from where I'd like to see them. I feel there is much room for improvement in both radio systems.

I'd love to just use the Yaesu for everything... but the wide range of frequencies make it super difficult to find an antenna that performs at 2 meter / MURS / 70cm and GMRS frequencies... so Im fine with two radios/antennas.

 

Now for the million dollar question.

What are the two best antennas I can buy and where/how is the best place to mount them ?

I have decided I am OK with drilling holes in my roof if needed, but that will involve dropping the headliner and pulling half my interior apart. 

My other concern is overhead clearance... as my truck sits pretty high and it sometimes goes up in the air on my lift, leaving little room for antennas on the roof. 

 

Lets hear some ideas...  I will followup with my decision and the end result once its all upgraded. 

The 2x4 antenna you already have is one of the best for multiple bands.  Try it on GMRS.

[WSEM262]

6 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

The 2x4 antenna you already have is one of the best for multiple bands.  Try it on GMRS.

I had it previously on the roof in place of the GMRS antenna but without a ground plane, the SWR's were getting to an uncomfortable level... so I put it back on the hood and connected the Yaesu to it.

[WSEM262]

11 minutes ago, kidphc said:

Are you trying to maximize simplex or repeater work on both radios?

 

 

Yes to both. 

[SteveShannon]

7 minutes ago, WSEM262 said:

I had it previously on the roof in place of the GMRS antenna but without a ground plane, the SWR's were getting to an uncomfortable level... so I put it back on the hood and connected the Yaesu to it.

Mount it to the metal roof of the truck instead of the composite roof of the topper. The radiating element will stick up above the roof rack. 

[kidphc]

Mount it to the metal roof of the truck instead of the composite roof of the topper. The radiating element will stick up above the roof rack. 

Alternatively, you could punch a hole in the camper top and install a 20" (will be usable for 2m later on) or so steel plate in the camper interior to act as a ground plane. As long as the radiating portion is clear of the roof rack should have minimum impact on the radiation pattern.

I also had the same problem with the 2x4sr on a ditch light/hood mount. It really wants a good solid ground plane. Atleast the fold over will help with clearance on the cab of the roof. It still sticks up about 6" high though.

My EMS buddies all chose aluminum camper tops for their personal f150/f250s, to accommodate the porcupine look and offer enough groundplane and separation for all the antennas.

Guess you are in the same boat as us. We purposely choose places for meets/dinners that would have us avoiding garages and such.


Picture for shits and giggles, of one of my customer's roof whom was assigned an old DC brigade truck while her normal patrol was in for maintenance. She is normally responsible for the interoperability/logistics at the Marine Corp 10k. If you get a chance and can make it past security to see the Lt. at the ops tent, say Cha says hi to her.

Picture is really to help those intimating in popping the first hole.. lol


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[dosw]

10 minutes ago, kidphc said:

Alternatively, you could punch a hole in the camper top and install a 20" (will be usable for 2m later on) or so steel plate in the camper interior to act as a ground plane. As long as the radiating portion is clear of the roof rack should have minimum impact on the radiation pattern.

I also had the same problem with the 2x4sr on a ditch light/hood mount. It really wants a good solid ground plane. Atleast the fold over will help with clearance on the cab of the roof. It still sticks up about 6" high though.

My EMS buddies all chose aluminum camper tops for their personal f150/f250s, to accommodate the porcupine look and offer enough groundplane and separation for all the antennas.

Guess you are in the same boat as us. We purposely choose places for meets/dinners that would have us avoiding garages and such.



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I've also found that the CA2X4SR really needs a good ground plane. I tried it out with a GP01 kit from Nagoya, with the radials fully extended, and it stunk on 2m and wasn't great on GMRS. Installing it on a magnetic mount on a vehicle in the middle of the roof brought the SWR right down to where it should be. It might be because it's such a broad-band antenna, but it is not happy with a less ideal ground plane. With a good ground plane it's fantastic, covering 2m, MURS, 1.25m (even though it doesn't claim that band), 70cm, and GMRS.

[kidphc]

I've also found that the CA2X4SR really needs a good ground plane. I tried it out with a GP01 kit from Nagoya, with the radials fully extended, and it stunk on 2m and wasn't great on GMRS. Installing it on a magnetic mount on a vehicle in the middle of the roof brought the SWR right down to where it should be. It might be because it's such a broad-band antenna, but it is not happy with a less ideal ground plane. With a good ground plane it's fantastic, covering 2m, MURS, 1.25m (even though it doesn't claim that band), 70cm, and GMRS.

I think Marc had the same experience. With a good solid ground plane, the SWRs are good. Even if it is a bit off of good, it starts nose diving.

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[Lscott]

21 minutes ago, dosw said:

I tried it out with a GP01 kit from Nagoya, with the radials fully extended, and it stunk on 2m and wasn't great on GMRS.

It's a 5/8 wave design thus a bit fussy with the ground plane. Used one with a home made ground radial setup. I bent the radials at about a 45 degree angle. An SWR sweep showed a decent match.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/268-ca-2x4sr/?context=new

 

[WRYZ926]

Yes the Comet 2x4SR works well for 2m, MURS, 70cm, and GMRS when it has a good ground plane. I run one on the back of my SxS and the mag mount is attached to a metal plate that is secured to the expanded metal rack. I get a SWR of 1.8 or less across all those bands.

The only reason I don't use the 2x4SR on my Ford Escape is height restrictions since I park in the garage. I'm worried that I would forget to fold it once and tear things up.

[dosw]

4 minutes ago, WRYZ926 said:

Yes the Comet 2x4SR works well for 2m, MURS, 70cm, and GMRS when it has a good ground plane. I run one on the back of my SxS and the mag mount is attached to a metal plate that is secured to the expanded metal rack. I get a SWR of 1.8 or less across all those bands.

The only reason I don't use the 2x4SR on my Ford Escape is height restrictions since I park in the garage. I'm worried that I would forget to fold it once and tear things up.

There's a spring kit available for it. https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/cma-ca-spr 

It's $22, which doesn't seem unreasonably expensive. It's too bad they don't sell a spring version to begin with.

[Lscott]

2 hours ago, Socalgmrs said:

A comet 2x4 with proper ground plane and one unlocked radio why are things so complicated. 

If it was so simple we wouldn't get any business here.

[WSEM262]

Looks like its the Comet 2x4 for the win.

I found some flat 24"x24" aluminum and mounted that under the truck cap as a ground plane.

The Yaesu FTM200D runs all my frequencies from 146.520 up to 467.725.

Best SWR is 1.12 at 146mhz.

Worst SWR is 1.83 at 467mhz.

This enabled me to remove the DB20G and MXT26 antenna.

 

Signal clarity is absolutely amazing now. I suppose putting it further from the engine and adding the ground plane really sharpened things up. Never heard it sound so good before.

 

[SpeedSpeak2Me]

4 hours ago, WSEM262 said:

Looks like its the Comet 2x4 for the win.

I found some flat 24"x24" aluminum and mounted that under the truck cap as a ground plane.

The Yaesu FTM200D runs on all my frequencies from 146.520 up to 467.725.

Best SWR is 1.12 at 146mhz.

Worst SWR is 1.83 at 467mhz.

This enabled me to remove the DB20G and MXT26 antenna.

 

Signal clarity is absolutely amazing now. I suppose putting it further from the engine and adding the ground plane really sharpened things up. Never heard it sound so good before.

 

In the event you "should" need a shorter antenna at some point, I can recommend the Comet SS-460B-NMO which has also has a spring base.  It's 18" tall without the NMO mount, and with that ground plane you'll do fine on 2m, 70cm, and GMRS.  MURS is its weak point though, if you can live with that.  Its sibling antenna, the Comet SBB2-NMO has similar characteristics, but no spring base.
 

SS-460B-NMO - Tested on top of an extended cab Silverado using a RigExpert Stick Pro, center-mounted with a 3" NMO mag mount:

Comet SBB2-NMO (same vehicle, same mount):

[wayoverthere]

6 hours ago, SpeedSpeak2Me said:

In the event you "should" need a shorter antenna at some point, I can recommend the Comet SS-460B-NMO which has also has a spring base.  It's 18" tall without the NMO mount, and with that ground plane you'll do fine on 2m, 70cm, and GMRS.  MURS is its weak point though, if you can live with that.  Its sibling antenna, the Comet SBB2-NMO has similar characteristics, but no spring base.
 

SS-460B-NMO - Tested on top of an extended cab Silverado using a RigExpert Stick Pro, center-mounted with a 3" NMO mag mount:

Comet SBB2-NMO (same vehicle, same mount):

Don't know when I'll get to it, but that makes me think I should scan my SBB1 and see how it looks for gmrs.  Size wise, It's even shorter, kind of a mobile version of a rubber duck. Iirc, around 12".

[WRYZ926]

8 hours ago, wayoverthere said:

Don't know when I'll get to it, but that makes me think I should scan my SBB1 and see how it looks for gmrs.  Size wise, It's even shorter, kind of a mobile version of a rubber duck. Iirc, around 12".

I checked mine and it was under 2.0 on GMRS channels. I don't remember the exact numbers though. The first time I checked I did it inside the garage which gave horrible SWR reading on GMRS. Once I pulled my vehicle outside the SWR readings were fine. 

[Socalgmrs]

A comet 2x4 with proper ground plane and one unlocked radio why are things so complicated.