DB20G Stops transmitting

[Elbowmac]

My new DB20G stops transmitting until I cycle the power. Any ideas. This is the second unit doing this. MXTA26 antenna STS power supply. How hot is hot in that I was advised that the radio should not get hot!

Thanks for any Assistance!

[amaff]

2 hours ago, WRYS709 said:

No, it would not. 

Narrator: it did.

10 minutes ago, Elbowmac said:

Hello, I was initially just turning the radio off in my un-knowledge and then back on.. Last time it did it, I waited for wait seemed a couple of seconds and it began transmitting again.

 

[amaff]

I can't remember the last time I keyed down long enough to run out the transmission timeout haha

That said, I've also never really screwed with it too much. Would it not come back after a few seconds? It shouldn't stop transmitting until the radio's reset, I imagine. Or @Elbowmac are you maybe resetting it before it's giving you 'permission' to transmit again?

[Elbowmac]

2 hours ago, WRYZ926 said:

The TOT is normally seen really short out of the box on most radios. I have found most to be set at 1 minute at the factory. This includes Icom and Yaesu radios. I normally set mine to match the repeaters I use which is 3 minutes.

How long you have to wait for the TOT to reset will vary by manufacturer. It is usually around 30 to 60 seconds.

Hello and thanks for the additional info. Mined seemed shorter on reset but I was not actually testing it.

Couldn't express better than your tagline.

[WRYS709]

6 hours ago, amaff said:

Would it not come back after a few seconds? It shouldn't stop transmitting until the radio's reset, I imagine. Or @Elbowmac are you maybe resetting it before it's giving you 'permission' to transmit again?

I am having trouble following your grammatical use of negatives here, perhaps...

3 hours ago, amaff said:

Narrator: it did.

 

Then it is not a TOT timer shut off.

I just set my DB20-G timer for 1 minute and held my microphone transmit button on:

At 52 seconds, it began emitting a tone for about 5 seconds.

At 60 seconds, it shut down the transmission. As I continued to hold the microphone button down, it did not regain transmission.

Once I released my microphone button, I was able to then immediately push it down again and regain the ability to transmit.

[LeoG]

16 hours ago, Elbowmac said:

Thanks for the response and advice. At the time of the issue I was running it on low. Especially thanks tor putting a real world value to hot!! It never got too hot to touch. I put it back on high and used a laser thermometer on it. At the time it was getting to 106 degrees Fahrenheit after some transmissions.

Transistors and output devices are rated at 90-150ºC (200-300ºF).  Not exactly advisable to run them at near max, but 106ºF is 8º above body temp.

 

Transistor junction temperature, also known as operating temperature, is the maximum temperature at which a semiconductor in an electronic device can operate. It's higher than the temperature of the device's exterior and the case temperature.

Junction temperature is a critical thermal parameter for semiconductors. If the junction temperature exceeds a specified limit, the device may destroy itself or its thermal protection circuits may shut it down. The maximum junction temperature for a semiconductor is usually around 150°C, but can sometimes be as high as 175°C.

[SteveShannon]

Just now, Elbowmac said:

My new DB20G stops transmitting until I cycle the power. Any ideas. This is the second unit doing this. MXTA26 antenna STS power supply. How hot is hot in that I was advised that the radio should not get hot!

Thanks for any Assistance!

Run it at medium power and see if it continues. At medium power the db20g only gets warm. 
Your radio should only get hot when you’re transmitting on high power. Too hot would be too hot to touch. As long as you can rest your hand on the radio it’s probably fine. Most people listen more than they transmit. 

[OffRoaderX]

Have you checked the SWR?  A high SWR can cause more heat which may result in a thermal-shutdown (no transmitting).

[SteveShannon]

49 minutes ago, Elbowmac said:

My new DB20G stops transmitting until I cycle the power. Any ideas. This is the second unit doing this.

Does it look like the entire unit shuts down or does it just stop transmitting?

What’s the current capacity on your power supply? 

[Elbowmac]

12 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

Run it at medium power and see if it continues. At medium power the db20g only gets warm. 
Your radio should only get hot when you’re transmitting on high power. Too hot would be too hot to touch. As long as you can rest your hand on the radio it’s probably fine. Most people listen more than they transmit. 

Thanks for the response and advice. At the time of the issue I was running it on low. Especially thanks tor putting a real world value to hot!! It never got too hot to touch. I put it back on high and used a laser thermometer on it. At the time it was getting to 106 degrees Fahrenheit after some transmissions.

[Elbowmac]

12 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

Have you checked the SWR?  A high SWR can cause more heat which may result in a thermal-shutdown (no transmitting).

Using the Surecom sw102 which is as yet not adjusted, as I have no standard to check it with, I am getting various readings. Using mxta26 on the midland nmo mount placed on a cookie sheet and the standard midland attached cable. I have seen it as high as 1.83 so I was advised to move it. Moved it around and now it is 1.23 on medium power 12ish watts. Internet and opinions full of what I consider conflicting information in reference to acceptable levels of SWR. From 1.7 is bad and 1.8 is killing the radio to 2 to 3 SWR acceptable. BTW you, Helene and Milton convinced me to begin this adventure...!?!!?? Thanx

[Elbowmac]

12 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

Does it look like the entire unit shuts down or does it just stop transmitting?

What’s the current capacity on your power supply? 

No it does not it just stops transmitting and no bars on the signal meter. PS is 30 Amps Surge and 20 Amps continuous. Radio fused for 10 Amps.

[Elbowmac]

12 hours ago, Socalgmrs said:

Ok.  So I’m going to have a un popular no nonsense question.   If one unit already did this why buy another one? Or even if it was warranted out why bother.  I know these radios have a fallowing but so did Manson.    These radios are not of any quality what so ever.   Those that swear buy them have no idea what a good radio is.   There are many excellent radios in the same price range that will last 10plus years of daily hard use.  Might just be time to skip the junk. 
hint radio ditty, retivis, tid = junk
 

flame on. 

Appreciate the varied POV. $89 for the kit and a jungle site return policy is the reason for the 2nd purchase. Another is that I had already set up the .dat file and saved it, so I could upload to the new radio. I am using it as a base station and if I continue the adventure I will move it to a vehicle on go for the gusto of 50 Watts and a real base antenna within HOA guidelines..... I do believe I have locally gotten information that I think is the reason, thanks for the help and avenues of exploration. I believe that the Time of Talk which I set to 1 minute has timed me out. Is this a reasonable route to explore? This may be one of my duh moments

 

[OffRoaderX]

49 minutes ago, Elbowmac said:

I have seen it as high as 1.83

That is fine and better than i get on the 110W radio i use in my Jeep so I doubt this has anything to do with your issue.

[WRYS709]

14 hours ago, Socalgmrs said:

There are many excellent radios in the same price range that will last 10plus years of daily hard use.  Might just be time to skip the junk. 
hint radio ditty, retivis, tid = junk
 

flame on. 

Name 3!

[SteveShannon]

3 hours ago, Elbowmac said:

Thanks for the response and advice. At the time of the issue I was running it on low. Especially thanks tor putting a real world value to hot!! It never got too hot to touch. I put it back on high and used a laser thermometer on it. At the time it was getting to 106 degrees Fahrenheit after some transmissions.

That shouldn’t be too hot at all unless there’s some kind of problem on the board.

[SteveShannon]

3 hours ago, Elbowmac said:

Appreciate the varied POV. $89 for the kit and a jungle site return policy is the reason for the 2nd purchase. Another is that I had already set up the .dat file and saved it, so I could upload to the new radio. I am using it as a base station and if I continue the adventure I will move it to a vehicle on go for the gusto of 50 Watts and a real base antenna within HOA guidelines..... I do believe I have locally gotten information that I think is the reason, thanks for the help and avenues of exploration. I believe that the Time of Talk which I set to 1 minute has timed me out. Is this a reasonable route to explore? This may be one of my duh moments

 

Yes, that makes perfect sense. If you transmit longer than the TOT, the radio will stop transmitting.  I think I have mine set to 3 minutes.  It’s a handy setting for a repeater (sometimes keeps a windbag like me from finishing a story) but it’s not terribly useful on a mobile radio. 

[SteveShannon]

3 hours ago, Elbowmac said:

No it does not it just stops transmitting and no bars on the signal meter. PS is 30 Amps Surge and 20 Amps continuous. Radio fused for 10 Amps.

I think you already solved the mystery.  The TOT is set too short.  TOT causes the unit to time out when transmitting.  

[WRYZ926]

5 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

Yes, that makes perfect sense. If you transmit longer than the TOT, the radio will stop transmitting.  I think I have mine set to 3 minutes.  It’s a handy setting for a repeater (sometimes keeps a windbag like me from finishing a story) but it’s not terribly useful on a mobile radio. 

The TOT is normally seen really short out of the box on most radios. I have found most to be set at 1 minute at the factory. This includes Icom and Yaesu radios. I normally set mine to match the repeaters I use which is 3 minutes.

How long you have to wait for the TOT to reset will vary by manufacturer. It is usually around 30 to 60 seconds.

[Elbowmac]

3 hours ago, amaff said:

I can't remember the last time I keyed down long enough to run out the transmission timeout haha

That said, I've also never really screwed with it too much. Would it not come back after a few seconds? It shouldn't stop transmitting until the radio's reset, I imagine. Or @Elbowmac are you maybe resetting it before it's giving you 'permission' to transmit again?

Hello, I was initially just turning the radio off in my un-knowledge and then back on.. Last time it did it, I waited for wait seemed a couple of seconds and it began transmitting again. I seem to need more time to express myself so I will be increasing the TOT to 3 minutes.

[amaff]

4 minutes ago, WRYS709 said:

I am having trouble following your grammatical use of negatives here, perhaps...

Then it is not a TOT timer shut off.

I just set my DB20-G timer for 1 minute and held my microphone transmit button on:

At 52 seconds, it began emitting a tone for about 5 or 6 seconds.

At 62 seconds, it shut down the transmission. As I continued to hold the microphone button down, it did not regain transmission.

Once I released my microphone button, I was able to then immediately push it down again and regain the ability to transmit.

Yeah, I think we're talking past each other.

My understanding is that it would time out, then you'd have to come off of the PTT for a few seconds, then key back down. Not that it would pick back up transmitting if you never took your finger off the button. Your experience is what I'd expect it to do.

[tcp2525]

1 hour ago, LeoG said:

Transistors and output devices are rated at 90-150ºC (200-300ºF).  Not exactly advisable to run them at near max, but 106ºF is 8º above body temp.

 

Transistor junction temperature, also known as operating temperature, is the maximum temperature at which a semiconductor in an electronic device can operate. It's higher than the temperature of the device's exterior and the case temperature.

Junction temperature is a critical thermal parameter for semiconductors. If the junction temperature exceeds a specified limit, the device may destroy itself or its thermal protection circuits may shut it down. The maximum junction temperature for a semiconductor is usually around 150°C, but can sometimes be as high as 175°C.

Good information but, the DB20 has excellent RF final protection by cutting back output power the hotter it gets. Trust me, I put my DB20 through living hell and it got so hot that it will burn you. Mine put out 17w when cold and down to 9w when really hot. That said, you would be hard pressed to find a DB20 that has a burnt PA. If only Yaesu could design a dual band radio that is as robust as the DB20 I would be happy.

[Elbowmac]

5 hours ago, LeoG said:

Transistors and output devices are rated at 90-150ºC (200-300ºF).  Not exactly advisable to run them at near max, but 106ºF is 8º above body temp.

 

Transistor junction temperature, also known as operating temperature, is the maximum temperature at which a semiconductor in an electronic device can operate. It's higher than the temperature of the device's exterior and the case temperature.

Junction temperature is a critical thermal parameter for semiconductors. If the junction temperature exceeds a specified limit, the device may destroy itself or its thermal protection circuits may shut it down. The maximum junction temperature for a semiconductor is usually around 150°C, but can sometimes be as high as 175°C.

Thank you for the information and putting it into perspective. I am no longer paranoid about the temperatures or the SWR readings I am experiencing.

[WRYS709]

1 hour ago, amaff said:

Would it not come back after a few seconds? 

No, it would not. 

[Socalgmrs]

Ok.  So I’m going to have a un popular no nonsense question.   If one unit already did this why buy another one? Or even if it was warranted out why bother.  I know these radios have a fallowing but so did Manson.    These radios are not of any quality what so ever.   Those that swear buy them have no idea what a good radio is.   There are many excellent radios in the same price range that will last 10plus years of daily hard use.  Might just be time to skip the junk. 
hint radio ditty, retivis, tid = junk
 

flame on.