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I'm baffled by the amount of folks who think they want to re-write the rules and channels to benefit them. Until a few years ago we had 8 repeater splits and thats it. For folks above line A they lost 2 off the bat. If your talking simplex use a channel not in a repeater. Its simple.

Paired frequencies act as if it were a single channel. That's what paired means and repeater channels are PAIRED.

I approve this comment... Just, without the due-respect part..

Great info Steve and radioguy - thank you for clarifying. For the way I'm planning to use the radio, I think I'm OK. I had heard a similar warning about reflashing of the LS models, and that it doesn't always work as intended -- not applicable to my situation but good to know. My two 1250s are eBay finds, but have always been Conventional only -- and I try to keep my tinkering in CPS to the bare minimum required to load 'em up with relevant freqs. I've also learned the "Use a RIB box and the right cabling or you'll brick your radio" lesson the hard way once already. Thanks.

I think the reference to 22 channels was taking into account that the repeater channels share the same output frequencies as channels 15 to 22. So yes, there are typically 30 channels, but 8 of them are duplicated, in a manner of speaking.

I believe I need to say this after the Darth Vader post before. Here's my personal take and my situation. Most of you are NOT going to be able to park an antenna system 240 feet AGL and 700 feet HAAT and connect your repeater to it. I can. Most of you are NOT going to have a multi-port TX combiner that allows you to connect MULTIPLE repeaters on multiple frequencies to one antenna. I have that as well. Most of you are not going to have a stream of faulty equipment that you have the knowledge and equipment to repair and put on the air and instead need to purchase new or used hardware that honestly ain't cheap. Again, perks of being a radio guy. Some folks will say it's just too old replace it, so I do. I ask what they want done with the old stuff and remind them it's technically classified as hazardous waste (due to chemicals in capacitors and the lead based solder) and they request we dispose of it. All that being said. If you had the ability to park an antenna that high. Cover 7 counties with your GMRS repeater and have that level of coverage, you no doubt would but it's not in the reach of many. For me it's right down the road, so I do it. And the fact that's it's NOT on a 40 foot TV tower in the back yard and can only cover the two closest towns and no further, I feel it's my responsibility if I am gonna occupy the frequencies that I need to allow EVERYONE that is licensed and operates within the rules to use the repeaters I provide. So I do allow everyone. I closely follow the laws. I do have others around me running DMR on GMRS, Selling access as a for profit business (his business license attached to his GMRS site indicates its NOT a non-profit) I refuse to do either. If I want to sell air time,,, I will go get an FB6 or market frequency (would need it due to footprint) and sell air time on a commercial community repeater. I ain't into that though. Don't think that since I do this, you need to do the same. But if you DO decide to put your GMRS repeater system on full send and cover 7 counties with it, remember that you ARE creating interference for others that are not. And in doing so, their repeater on a 40 foot tower becomes useless to them as you overpower it when your repeater starts to transmit. That guy SHOULD have access to your system because you are denying him access to his stuff. Or at least interfering with it a lot. I have worked with and continue to work with the local guys. We have put together a band plan, I have setup duplexers and repeaters for those guys to interleave their channels with my efforts to minimize interference. And I will continue to do so.

I am in complete support of the GMRS community. With that said, THIS IS NOT AMATEUR RADIO (HAM) !. Just to be perfectly clear, again, this is NOT amateur (HAM) radio and was/is not designed/created as such. Nowhere that I have read, is it my responsibility to promote, encourage or even support GMRS use whether it be for family, business, personal or at the hobby level of use. That would be better served in the Amateur (HAM) radio classification and it's something they do quite well. I support and commend the HAM's for the time, expense and dedication they have and continue to perform at. I whole heartedly support their mission. I also can't thank them enough for their OUTSTANDING work and support of the citizens, emergency services agencies, infrastructure, beit power, water, red cross and the list goes on, during major incidents such as hurricanes, wildland fires and other manmade and natural disasters. The amount of money, time, training and dedication these folks invest is unbelievable and GREATLY APPRECIATED !. My hat is off to each and every operator . However, again I say, this is NOT amateur (HAM) radio, was not created by the FCC as such and the rules governing its use do not reflect such, so why is it always compared to and "expected to be" just like the Amateur service. If you prefer the way repeaters are operated in the Amateur field, then by all means choose and use that spectrum. If GMRS is a better fit for your needs and expectations, please feel free to utilize GMRS. The same goes for the Business classification and the rest. Understand (which requires you to take the time to read) the intended purpose and acceptable use and practices of this spectrum and you'll save yourself and the rest of us the possible aggravation and possible heart ache, associated with potentially choosing the wrong classification. Your failure to do so should not result in me being expected to and receive ridicule if I don't, conform to "your vision or expectation" of GMRS. I placed my repeater in service to serve the needs of myself, my family, my friends and my team, all of whom are current GMRS license holders. As a courtesy, let me say that again, as a "courtesy", I decided to offer access to, with my prior permission, other local, licensed users, that felt they could benefit from the use of this repeater. Why limit access to permission only and local only ? This checks several boxes on my list. First, I want to verify that the person or persons using my repeater are in fact currently licensed, local, and have a specific need to support their request. Second, it's another tool in the quest to keep control over the type of use my repeater will be utilized for and as a responsible and liable repeater owner, this is one of many ways I attempt to accomplish this. Another reason is notifications, if I need to take the repeater off the air for any reason or there's a problem that all users should be aware of, I am able to make notification to ALL operators that I have granted permission to by a group email. Yes, I keep a current list of everyone permission has been granted to as well as all of those who have requested access but were denied along with the reason for denial. I have spent and continue to spend a substantial amount of money to place this system on and keep it on the air and while it is still not able to deliver an optimum coverage area, continue to explore the possibilities for improvement almost daily. As most are already aware, every time that repeater is keyed up, it's causing additional wear and shortening the life of the equipment. So, unless someone has an unlimited amount of disposable income available to them it would only make sense that a GMRS repeater owner could & would take steps to limit the amount of unnecessary wear to their system in an attempt to lesson the maintenance and inevitable replacement cost, attempt to limit the amount of down time and most of all ensure the system is operational when they need it. This is one of the reasons that I clearly state in my listing that THIS system is not a "social networking" system. I not only discourage but will revoke permission to someone who decides they're going to start a lengthy transmission on what they had for dinner last night or what they watched on television etc. as this not the intended use I want for my equipment and causes the repeater to be tied up unnecessarily while causing the most damage (over time) to any system. Both are issues I am attempting to avoid by clearly conveying my rules in advance and if you don't like my rules, there's nothing written anywhere that says you "MUST" use my repeater. There are other repeater frequencies you can choose (or if you wanted to be a less than neighborly user (a jerk) you could choose the same frequency) and if there are no other repeaters available in your area and you don't like my rules, you are more than welcome to purchase, install and maintain your very own system where you too can make up the rules for accessing and utilizing your repeater. Yet another reason why I state once again, know and understand the different types of licensing/spectrum available and choose accordingly. I hope everyone that does signs up for and use GMRS has a positive experience and if GMRS is right for you, would encourage you to pursue obtaining your license. Just make sure you are choosing the correct category/spectrum for your likes & needs first. Good luck to all, stay healthy, well, safe and happy. Respectfully submitted, John

I think its grey. But with that said I have limited my users with RAS and other features that my repeaters have. I have one that sits and waits until it hears the proper DTMF/RAS code then when I'm done I send a repeater disable. It wont stop a true radio guy from digging out the code and doing it them selves but 99% of the people who cause issues have a CCR and aren't smart enough to understand that stuff. I think the big issue is alot of us pay to put stuff on the air. If you abuse a privilege's you should be disciplined. Apparently we can't do that anymore so doing other things to make it harder is all we can do. In the end I'll just remove my repeater (and have in some locations). I also recommend not listing it all over the world if you don't want folks on it. jmho

Using another repeater falls under the cooperative use clause and restrictions by the owner fall under 'individual licensee duties' of 47 CFR §95.1705: Repeaters are still classified as 'stations.' This section is why many repeater owners require permission, as they're technically required to keep a list of control stations. Key takeaways: "Shall determine specifically which individuals, including family members, are allowed to operate (i.e., exercise operational control over) its GMRS station(s)" (2) May allow any person to use (i.e., benefit from the operation of) its GMRS repeater, or alternatively, may limit the use of its GMRS repeater to specific persons; (3) May disallow the use of its GMRS repeater by specific persons as may be necessary to carry out its responsibilities under this section. "Specifically" in that first paragraph implies that a repeater's licensee must specify who you allow to act as a control station (which is any station using a repeater) over your GMRS station (in this case a repeater). This pretty much means that you have a duty as a repeater owner to keep a list of users to be compliant with this rule. This is aside from helping to tune out the noise caused by people who take others' hard work for granted and cause trouble. I don't think anyone stumbling onto a GMRS repeater is breaking the rules as a control station since it's hard to post a repeater as locked down in a matter fitting public notice; but the repeater owner does have a legal burden to keep track of you as a permitted user which users need to be aware of and thus should notify repeater owners of their intent. Of course, per the above, they can tell you to get off their equipment too and it's entirely within their rights to do so. In practice; is this ever enforced and does the FCC care? I doubt it - but it is in the rules.

As a matter of decency, yes. Just know that it's not the law or anything. If you put your listed or even unlisted repeater out there and somebody finds it and starts using it without permission (roger beeps and all), they aren't breaking any laws. If they comply with all applicable regulations, don't expect the FCC to do anything but laugh at you over the phone when you call in to report somebody using your repeater without your permission. Nobody owns any frequency on GMRS and if you put your equipment on the air, be prepared for anybody and everybody to use it, because they can. Is it rude? Yes. I don't want people doing it, but they can.