Leaderboard

Self identify that's funny. I have a cheap UV5R that sits in my car loaded up with GMRS, HAM, And MURS frequencies in case I cannot reach anyone in an emergency. As the fcc says, using a part unacceptable radio is okay in an emergency (wink)

For me personally my interest in this subject (other than just the to have the knowledge) is so that if I take a hike away from camp (realizing that all radios have limits) what will work to keep in touch with my wife while I’m out and about. So Ham isn’t going to be an option (she wouldn’t be interested) of course Garmin inreach is but I’m thinking radio here and that leaves GMRS or the no license required MURS. Mostly we hike together but going out in a kayak may be another matter and for that I think GMRS won’t be a problem. I also don’t count on repeaters being out in the woods. @axorlov (how’d I do there @MichaelLAX ?) makes a good case for my needs.

One thing to keep in mind is that any benefit derived from the lower frequencies of MURS apply equally to 2meter VHF. The only advantage MURS has is license free operation. Of course I still want a MURS handheld ?

So I was hiking the other day with a group of friends who all have 2 radios. (Emergency and General Coms). As a general rule we all stick to GMRS as it is more common to use. (Non repeater, just RTR). The other day we were convinced to have a 3rd radio, only about 20 bucks each. A cheap MURS radio. So we used it... and man is it better or what. I didn't think that the lower frequency would change that much. But its traveling farther, though trees better and everything. Does anyone else who uses their radios to do outdoor activities find the same conclusion if they've tried it? Or am I over hyping the change? I mean we saw differences and the murs were 2W vs the 5W GMRS.

Those Cable TV enclosures are available to everyone! The real test will be what's on the inside.

This is why repeaters are linked via ethernet. Normally a UHF repeater would use a "link" frequency in another band to link them together via RF. In Ham radio its pretty simple and used a lot (more for VHF repeaters with UHF links) but with GMRS we have basically 8 channels. Using RF to link will most likely interfere with each other. To make it work well you would need a lot of filtering. And with the narrow scope of frequencies its really not possible. If you need to link them you need to do via another means than RF. When I was in NY I had a "poor mans" voter system. 2 Repeaters could be heard in most locations but portables had trouble getting back to both. Solution was same repeater frequency with different RX PL at each site and same on TX. Basically RPT 1 was on PL B Receive and PL A Transmit. Repeater 2 was on PL C Receive and PL A Transmit. Hand Held had RPT 1 and RPT 2 with those settings. When units on RPT 1 would talk folks with RPT 2 would normally here them and could answer on RPT 2. Its not perfect but works well for portable use. We did multiple public safety systems like this in the past also. Its common in the VHF repeater world in rural America.

I was thinking like an unlocked Baofeng GT-3WP. No, no of course I wasn’t.

Somethings to keep in mind is that height above ground of an antenna has a huge effect on gain. Although gain patterns look pretty regular; gain is not. It can look like tendrils emanating in all kinds of directions. Here's an idealized picture from https://www.netxl.com/blog/networking/antenna-gain/: But here is a pattern generated from EZNec, an antenna simulation tool:

As some of you may know, we have been trying to get myGMRS integrated into CHIRP, a popular open-source radio programming software created by Dan Smith, for several years now. I finally heard back from Dan in December and shared our API (Application Programming Interface) resources to him and test credentials for the website. Given that this was a new feature and a big convenience to users, we wanted to offer it as a perk to Premium Members of the website who support our efforts to be the go-to GMRS community. Dan expressed concerns about having any paid services such as RadioReference.com in his application, because developers would be unable to test unless they had a membership at the website. We agreed to table the discussion until we had a solution for developers to test the myGMRS integration, and he implemented the new feature into CHIRP-next, the next generation of the CHIRP application. Dan released a version of CHIRP-next on December 24th with myGMRS integrated into it. Yesterday, I sent Dan an email letting him know what changes to expect to the API once I require accounts to have a Premium Membership to download repeaters through CHIRP, so he had time to make the required changes to show the appropriate error message rather than a cryptic "Got error code 403 from server" message. Long story short and omitting the gory details, Dan decided it was best to completely remove the myGMRS integration that he had finally added, rather than work with us on how to reach an amicable agreement that makes everyone happy. We offered several solutions to provide developers with Premium Membership so they could test the feature, eliminating the concern from Dan. We are surprised by this but respect his wishes, even though it hurts the GMRS community which utilizes his product for GMRS and/or Amateur Radio. Understandably, I know many people will wonder why this wasn't just a free feature and that be the end of it. However, myGMRS is a small business and it needs to be profitable to survive. myGMRS is a one-person operation (not withstanding all the amazing members who contribute the repeater listings and forum posts) and it takes considerable resources to just to keep the lights on with there being so many users. Since the founding of RepeaterFinder, LLC, the corporate entity behind myGMRS, I have not taken a salary. We intentionally minimize the number of advertisements we show because we hate ads too, but they alone don't cover the cost of running the website for nearly 50,000 users. Very few members have been kind enough to support us by subscribing to a Premium membership, so we're always looking for new perks to add for Premium Members to draw more people to sign up. To those who do support us, I sincerely thank you! If you'd like to utilize the myGMRS lookup feature and are a Premium Member, you can download the last working version of CHIRP-next from 01/09/2023 here: https://trac.chirp.danplanet.com/chirp_next/next-20230109/ If you receive "Got error code 403 from server" when trying to authenticate to myGMRS, it means you do not have an active subscription and you can subscribe by going here: https://mygmrs.com/profile/subscriptions You can see the commit notes from Dan regarding the removal here: https://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/repository/github/revisions/12301814e238458766f1f7bf06476b39a4e3ab93 Here's the original ticket tracking the feature request: https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/9169 Thank you for understanding!

@rdunajewski, Any ideas if the repeater approval page might be broken? I have half a dozen requests for both the Rugged 575 and the Crete 600 machine I own and when I hit "VIEW REQUEST" to the right - the big blue button, no matter which one I select it says "Request Denied" in a big red button at the bottom and says "You have already denied this request. Edit the Response from Owner above and click below to change your decision." The crazy thing is that I haven't denied or approved them. I cannot select "DENY" or "APPROVE" either as they are greyed out. I tried logging out and back in as well. For now I think I'll just email them the details but I figured I'd post about this cuz it isn't working like it normally works. I've attached a snip but have omitted personal details for privacy reasons Thanks!

Hi Terry, Even if you look at a Bridgecom, when I asked, the answer is no also. But I have a thought the others can beat me down about. What if you placed 2 antennas, and 2 repeaters and both ends of the freq range and diff PL's far enough apart? As the Retivis Is sealed does it matter where mounted other than power source / lightning? Does that not fix the issue at a less cost than a towers monthly cost?

I’ve never found them useful. With a radio hanging on the belt the wrist strap has a nasty habit of catching on crap as you walk close by things then rips the radio off your belt.

I have to say I also have a pile of unused ones also. That said I do have a more robust lanyard with a ring and a clip so if I go out on the water or some place precarious I can clip it to me and it’s not going anywhere. I just keep it in the glove box. But those wrist straps I just wouldn’t trust them.

But it can be discussed "silently!"

In Op’s scenario though he was trying to extend the signal he gets from someone else’s repeater I believe. So his method would have to hear or input from that 462 from original repeater and then put out on another 462 if I understood correctly. I liked @Sshannon back to back radio idea fwiw

It’s simply not possible to avoid a loop with two full duplex repeaters which communicate with each other, regardless of which frequencies they are on. Rpt 1 receives on B and simultaneously transmits on A, Rpt 2 receives on A and simultaneously transmits on B, where it’s received by Rpt 1 and retransmitted on A. It can only be done if one end breaks the loop by not simultaneously transmitting on the frequency that goes back to a full duplex repeater. EDITED: I’m mischaracterizing the problem The true problem is not that it’s simultaneously transmitting. The true problem is that everything each repeater receives is re-transmitted. Introducing a delay will simply make it sound like an echo. The solution must be to retransmit to the handheld in such a way that it’s not “repeated”. That’s why the back to back audio signal solution I described should work.The radio that communicates to the handheld is incapable of simultaneously receiving and transmitting radio signals.

You mean like my Pofung UV-82's that self-identify as ham, GMRS and MURS?

Not to reopen a can of worms but this seems like a scenario where a duel band receive (and TX) radio with GMRS and MURS would be handy… I know it’s not allowed.

Close by he could as he explains. More RF less desense. Thats normal. But now get in fringe area and no workie. With no test equipment its hard to say. I have tested repeaters for desense and seen 0 to 40 db desense. All depends on frequencies, duplexers, tuning and equipment. @WRMN374 If your antenna and repeater are both inside your not going to talk much further than you will on a single radio. What is your expectation that you want to accomplish ? You need to determine what you want to accomplish then design it to cover that. Take all the repeater stuff apart and use simplex to an antenna to your friends. Until you can reach them with a single antenna and single radio a repeater isn't going to work. I would venture to guess a mile is a good shot from inside the house with a handheld in the field. There are tons of threads on this site to search for information.

From personal experience, in forest 2m (and MURS) is much better than 70cm (and GMRS). It is so much better that the difference in power between GMRS and MURS (4W vs 2W) does not make for the difference in propagation. In rocky canyons and mountains GMRS will hold the small edge over MURS because of better reflection and other wave effects. I still use GMRS for camping trips for a simple reason: the 40W mobile radio in a car at a campsite overshoots both GMRS and MURS handhelds by a wide margin, and it also hears better than handheld because of better receiver and more efficient antenna. With operator at campsite (or simplex repeater) you greatly extend the range of your GMRS handhelds, which is not possible with MURS. Simplex repeaters appear to be forbidden, so I only deploy it (configured to not pollute air when not needed) when far away from civilization.

Actually the green area on the map is the Angeles National Forest, which was between us. We were both testing "opened" Radioddity DB20-Gs on GMRS, MURS, 2 meters and 70 cms on our various power settings, which I believe are 2, 5 and 18 watts (20 for VHF). BTW: if you put a "@" before our screen name i.e., @MichaelLAX the person get an alert that he has been mentioned.

I typically use my HT's for scanning. The one thing that helps a lot is setting the scan resume delay to 5 seconds or a bit longer. The cheap radios have a fixed delay whereas the commercial radios you can program it. The delay is so the other party has time to hit the PTT button before the radio resumes scanning. That way you don't keep missing part of the conversation because the radio hasn't gotten back to the active channel. On some radios they can also be setup where a very quick press of the PTT button will drop the radio out of scan mode and leave it on the current channel. That way if you want to joint in on the conversation you don't have to manual stop the scan then scroll through the channels to get to the one you want. Later you can just resume scanning with a button press on the front panel.

Be careful, you might start using radios and then end up with an expensive hobby, then a passion, and next a career. Could be a good thing, and with a shortage of radio technicians and engineers, can be very lucrative if you really get into it. In Florida, it is also interesting to many to monitor the maritime VHF channels and vessel traffic. Tampa, you have a lot going on there, so a scanner and monitoring the local radio nets (GMRS and others) might get interesting. Like others have said, starting with a GMRs radios might be a cheap and fun solutions at first. Even a blister pack pair of radios from a big box store can yield a lot of listening in your area. During my last trip to Florida, and to Busch Gardens, Universal Studios , and Avon Park Bomb range, there was a lot of FRS/GMRS usage with families and people moving about. I was there for the military's and while all of that is encrypted P25 comms, everything else was not encrypted. AM aviation traffic allowed for listening of aircraft and FM FRS was in use all over the place. I recall hearing some people using them to communicated where they were in orange orchards and when trucks needed to be switched out, being full of picked oranges.

No they cannot. Farmer A can talk to his radio and when that conversation is done Farmer B can talk to his units. Regardless of PL/DPL used. Thats how community repeaters in the LMR world used to work. We would use BCL so they could not talk over each other. The only way 2 farmers can use same repeater is by going to a DMR business system and all DMR gear.

I realized later after I said that I was being goofy! I thought "duh" and came back. You had already answered what I came back to fix! Lol

I think Randy's videos helped me understand the tones keep me from having to listen to others but offers no privacy at all. What I wasn't sure of was whether farmer group A and Wrtz family B could use the repeater simultaneously

Simple half-wave dipole, 20 meters (~66 feet) above ground. Max gain 5.57dBi. Same antenna 100 meters (~330 feet) up. Max gain 7.36dBi FYI: EZNec Pro/2+ v7.0 is now a free download (the author has stopped providing updates). https://www.eznec.com/

No. It’s configured with one set of frequencies.

Back in the early 80’s, I worked EMS in a small town. Our ambulance had a radio that was called “Pack-Rat”. We had the regular two way that was installed in the rig, and a handheld docked next to it. When you undocked the handheld it would use the rig radio as a repeater. So even when sub terrain, as long as the rig was on that property it would repeat all trans and rec to the handheld. It was awesome. Until the FCC banned it. Unfortunately I don’t recall the reasoning behind it, but we ended up with a crappy radio in the rig with no pack rat after.

Hey @sjmahlerthanks for the dimensions.. is the case on the 97S made of plastic or metal?

That's exactly what it does and was designed for. Using different bands of course (VHF/UHF).

TYT TH-9800, $210.00. 50watt VHF, 40watt UHF radio. Does quad band (10m, 6m, 2m and 70cm but only two at a time) as well. Almost half the price of a KG-1000G+

There’s no doubt that a “true base station antenna and feedline” is better for a full time repeater, but I wouldn’t be so quick to declare “Well, that’s your issue.” The losses through 10 feet of LMR400 aren’t enough to cause this problem and a decent mobile antenna can be expected to transmit and receive just as far on a repeater as they do on a mobile radio. The O.P. really needs to rule out other things before investing money in hardline and a Laird antenna. He might spend quite a bit of money trying to build your concept of a repeater, only to find that his friends have a wrong setting somewhere. He already said this is a test setup; let’s help him get as much out of the test as possible before sending him back to the store. @WRMN374 Are your friends able to communicate when they get closer? Can you loan them your handheld radios and have them see how far away they can get before they no longer make contact? If it’s just a matter of range, then @gortex2 may be correct, that it’s a matter of not getting enough signal out, but if that is the case they should have no problem hearing you when they’re closer. Let’s take the repeater configuration out of the picture for just a second. If you clear the tones and use a simplex frequency can you contact your friends using one KG1000 as a mobile/base station from your location? I would make sure that you can do that before adding the complexity of a repeater. Where is your antenna and cookie sheet located? Is it up on the roof or on a mast outside or do you have it in the house? Notarubicon (@OffRoaderX) recently released a really good video that illustrates the value of a good antenna compared to adding more power that you might find interesting.

Well that's your issue. You need a true base station antenna and feedline if you expect more than a couple miles. A laird FG4503 or 4507 would be ideal with some good feedline.

The young ladies in my area come with USB-C!

Mine make me look like I have an different kind of social life: But I’m really not even looking to avoid ads. I just want to be able to support the site at a level that I’m comfortable with.

Just so people have an idea what these antennas look like and the performance I attached a datasheet for the DB408. For repeaters there is one spec that often gets overlooked, that's the "down tilt" angle if it has one. That's important at high gains and you need close in coverage to the site. https://www.kpperformance.com/Antenna-Downtilt-A-Practical-Overview.html https://www.telecomhall.net/t/what-is-antenna-electrical-and-mechanical-tilt-and-how-to-use-it/6388 DB408-B Product specifications.pdf

Yep. I have done this many times. Couple things to be mindful of. If you are on the side of a concrete silo with no roof, then it's obviously gonna be side mounted to the wall. If there is a metal dome on it you want on top if possible. Of course you need to limit the antenna size due to the twisting moment at the base. So no huge antenna's. Easiest way to deal with the antenna cable running down vertically is attach it to the outside of the vertical bar on the ladder. But you are going to need to fasten it to something more often than just the ladder mounts that are every 10 feet. Needs to be 6 feet or less between the attachment points. If it's a flat side unit, you could use Tek screws and one hole clamps for conduit when it was empty so you can get all the metal shavings out of it. If its' ribbed, you are about gonna have to use the ladder. Weather proofing the repeater. Easiest way is a water proof box or put in in the head house in a fairly clean area. I realize that clean in a head house is a oxy-moron, but it can be done if you are willing to maintain it and blow the dust out of it a few times a year, and about every other week in the fall when you are drying and putting away. If you have silo's you know what I am talking about. QUALITY equipment here is a MUST. You have to spend the money on a real repeater that's sealed. I wouldn't consider any other repeater than an MTR from Motorola in that environment. The last system I out in was 3 XPR repeaters on a feed mill. They got installed in a weather proof cabinet on TOP of the mill due to the dust. Too much of a concern for the repeaters becoming an ignition source to have them in the building at all. Mind you they run 10 million bushel a year through that mill. It's a big operation for a large egg farm. But it can be done. It's gonna be more expensive to put it in, just like everything else is that has power going to it, but at least you are not paying reoccurring rent on a tower site. And I am gonna guess it will work well due to most farm's sit in the middle of pretty flat land.

So most people with Jeeps and trucks are not installing their NMO antennae in a "through the roof" mount and are instead using external brackets. NMO mounts such as the "Midland 6 Meter Antenna Cable with NMO Connector" are obviously designed to be water proof (with an o-ring seal) when installed on a flat panel where the underside is protected from weather by the panel that it is mounted to and the o-ring on the top side of the panel. In a bracket type mount, the underside of the NMO mount is completely exposed to the elements. Is this a problem? Should one somehow protect it from the elements? Most installations I see just leave it exposed, so I wonder if the o-ring is merely to seal the roof panel from leaking and not to necessarily protect the back side of the antenna mount.

Most of us use the Larsen NMOKHFUD NMO Mount. It isn't 100% waterproof but way better than the others. I normally slip a piece of self sealing heat shrink over the cable and I have yet to have one get water in them. My JK is at least 10 years old and still works fine. They work really well. https://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=264_266_291&products_id=1125

A month or so ago I heard the result of two repeaters on the same frequency. Northern Indiana while I was passing through. It didn't work out too well. FM chaos and conflict as people on each repeater were trying to figure out who the other repeater was. The people on one repeater were not identifying. A few folks located such that they could hear both could hear each other talking about the other.