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I am in complete support of the GMRS community. With that said, THIS IS NOT AMATEUR RADIO (HAM) !. Just to be perfectly clear, again, this is NOT amateur (HAM) radio and was/is not designed/created as such. Nowhere that I have read, is it my responsibility to promote, encourage or even support GMRS use whether it be for family, business, personal or at the hobby level of use. That would be better served in the Amateur (HAM) radio classification and it's something they do quite well. I support and commend the HAM's for the time, expense and dedication they have and continue to perform at. I whole heartedly support their mission. I also can't thank them enough for their OUTSTANDING work and support of the citizens, emergency services agencies, infrastructure, beit power, water, red cross and the list goes on, during major incidents such as hurricanes, wildland fires and other manmade and natural disasters. The amount of money, time, training and dedication these folks invest is unbelievable and GREATLY APPRECIATED !. My hat is off to each and every operator . However, again I say, this is NOT amateur (HAM) radio, was not created by the FCC as such and the rules governing its use do not reflect such, so why is it always compared to and "expected to be" just like the Amateur service. If you prefer the way repeaters are operated in the Amateur field, then by all means choose and use that spectrum. If GMRS is a better fit for your needs and expectations, please feel free to utilize GMRS. The same goes for the Business classification and the rest. Understand (which requires you to take the time to read) the intended purpose and acceptable use and practices of this spectrum and you'll save yourself and the rest of us the possible aggravation and possible heart ache, associated with potentially choosing the wrong classification. Your failure to do so should not result in me being expected to and receive ridicule if I don't, conform to "your vision or expectation" of GMRS. I placed my repeater in service to serve the needs of myself, my family, my friends and my team, all of whom are current GMRS license holders. As a courtesy, let me say that again, as a "courtesy", I decided to offer access to, with my prior permission, other local, licensed users, that felt they could benefit from the use of this repeater. Why limit access to permission only and local only ? This checks several boxes on my list. First, I want to verify that the person or persons using my repeater are in fact currently licensed, local, and have a specific need to support their request. Second, it's another tool in the quest to keep control over the type of use my repeater will be utilized for and as a responsible and liable repeater owner, this is one of many ways I attempt to accomplish this. Another reason is notifications, if I need to take the repeater off the air for any reason or there's a problem that all users should be aware of, I am able to make notification to ALL operators that I have granted permission to by a group email. Yes, I keep a current list of everyone permission has been granted to as well as all of those who have requested access but were denied along with the reason for denial. I have spent and continue to spend a substantial amount of money to place this system on and keep it on the air and while it is still not able to deliver an optimum coverage area, continue to explore the possibilities for improvement almost daily. As most are already aware, every time that repeater is keyed up, it's causing additional wear and shortening the life of the equipment. So, unless someone has an unlimited amount of disposable income available to them it would only make sense that a GMRS repeater owner could & would take steps to limit the amount of unnecessary wear to their system in an attempt to lesson the maintenance and inevitable replacement cost, attempt to limit the amount of down time and most of all ensure the system is operational when they need it. This is one of the reasons that I clearly state in my listing that THIS system is not a "social networking" system. I not only discourage but will revoke permission to someone who decides they're going to start a lengthy transmission on what they had for dinner last night or what they watched on television etc. as this not the intended use I want for my equipment and causes the repeater to be tied up unnecessarily while causing the most damage (over time) to any system. Both are issues I am attempting to avoid by clearly conveying my rules in advance and if you don't like my rules, there's nothing written anywhere that says you "MUST" use my repeater. There are other repeater frequencies you can choose (or if you wanted to be a less than neighborly user (a jerk) you could choose the same frequency) and if there are no other repeaters available in your area and you don't like my rules, you are more than welcome to purchase, install and maintain your very own system where you too can make up the rules for accessing and utilizing your repeater. Yet another reason why I state once again, know and understand the different types of licensing/spectrum available and choose accordingly. I hope everyone that does signs up for and use GMRS has a positive experience and if GMRS is right for you, would encourage you to pursue obtaining your license. Just make sure you are choosing the correct category/spectrum for your likes & needs first. Good luck to all, stay healthy, well, safe and happy. Respectfully submitted, John

Ham transceivers are not certified by most definitions - Part 97 doesn't hold a technical certification standard for equipment. The Amateur Radio motto is just "operate as efficiently as possible within these guidelines". Part 90 (and others like 87 and 80, etc) have specific requirements for emissions standards which can be quantitatively measured and analyzed. Which is why its easy to be said Part 90 is allowed - but not expressly worded within the current rules.

Hello all! I am a couple years late to posting this topic, but mostly because this discussion created such heated arguments on Facebook that I either left or was banned from certain communities. At the time I was working as a state frequency coordinator and LMR engineer, now working with "one of the big LMR brands". As a result, I had and still have access to discuss issues with the FCC Enforcement Bureau and their in-house counsel. This is a rundown of said conversation I had after the last rule changes... Specifically towards the Part 90/95 issue - I asked why in the new rules it loosely stated that Part 90 equipment was permitted, but then later in the same rules mentioned it was not permitted. The in-house counsel agreed the wording was ambiguous at best, which would result in a hard time in them enforcing the rule on its own. Essentially, the conversation was "If you are caught with a Part 90 radio in the process of us investigating an issue such as malicious interference, it will be an added charge... but we cannot and will not pursue it on its own". The wording specifically I mentioned was: 95.335 (a) - Which states that non-Part 95 equipment may be operated in the service if they are certified for use in land mobile radio services. With that said, the Enforcement Bureau and their legal counsel agreed that the wording was added because of a distinct lack of Part 95 licensed equipment being added to the list, but that the wording wasn't fully clarified to explicitly permit it either. The resolution to the issue is what I quoted above... that they will not be pursuing certification violations by end-users, and the end user will not be caught and fined unless it was within the investigation into other issues which will usually be your worse issue regardless. The biggest hurdle this presented was for manufacturers to comply with certification of devices, and the wording was created to make sure Baofeng and others would not market their radios as GMRS radios without proper certification. So in the end - enjoy your Motorola XTS/APX/XPR radios, your Harris P7100/7200/etc radios, and so-forth. Just be wise and safe! What I hope to accomplish by posting this here is a CIVIL and PRODUCTIVE discussion to petition the FCC for a clarification into the rules where 95.335 can be either refined or referred to elsewhere in the Part 95 rules to be the "one rule to rule them all" and state that if a radio is Part 90 compliant, it will be permitted. The end.

For all of you that have rattled on about the 'cost' of putting up a GMRS repeater as an excuse.... We bought the TOWER SITE ours is on for 48K. So your few grand for an antenna and repeater don't hold water. Mind you they are not the ONLY radios on the tower. But crying about the cost of a repeater, antenna and line sort of falls on deaf ears for me. Spend 50K plus before you can even have somewhere to plug in the repeater and then we can talk. That being said. GMRS is NOT ham... it is a short form of private LMR. And you can have "closed" ham repeaters that are club only if you desire to do that. And you can require the payment of dues for entry into a club to get access to a ham repeater. The difference with GMRS and HAM is that with GMRS, you can do the same thing, BUT you can only take in enough money to support and maintain the GMRS system. It can't be for profit. And it can't go for club fee's or other nonrepeater costs. So my take is this.... it is YOUR repeater. You can choose to allow all comers, or you can choose to have it remain private and only used by you and your family. If you choose to accept donations... great. Electric costs money... tower site insurance costs money,, fixing stuff costs money... but while we would never refuse to take a donation,,, we will not ask for them either. Lets break down some REAL costs. Site 48K... rewire site 10K, monthly cost of ownership due to electrical and reaccuring stuff like taxes $200 - $400 TWO MTR uhf repeaters 800 each. 4 port combiner new cost, 8K per port. 600 feet of 7/8 hard line at 2 bucks a foot. Receive multicoupler for RX and window filter $3k new. Two DB-420 antennas (one TX one RX) 1.2K each new. I don't want to HEAR what it cost you. I don't much care... We are hosting TWO fully public GMRS repeaters which will be 3 total as soon as I get time to set down and repair the TK-850 Kenwood and program it. Then it will be 3 open repeaters. Tower is 240 feet tall. GMRS repeaters talk 3 counties away in most directions to a mobile with a reasonable antenna. When you spend that sort of jack and put forward that sort of effort, let me know and I will listen to how expensive it all is. Until then STOP hiding behind the cost of it. If you don't want to share, don't. There is ZERO requirement to do so. If you want to put up a repeater that is closed,, do it... but remember that if you are holding others back from having a repeater, because you happen to be able to cover 9 to 12 counties, don't. Will we be tying up 3 of the 8 repeater pairs,,, in a sense, yes. But they are open to ALL. And we have only irritated ONE person. He runs some sort of GMRS business. And the fact I am interleaved on his pairs, and stomp his coverage in the dirt with a single site where his crap is from here to there and back again and he STILL don't have the overall footprint we have. I honestly don't care if I am killing his pay to play GMRS business. And YES it's a business with an OHIO issued business license for GMRS. If you are reading this... you know WHO you are and who I am.... sorry but you don't get to claim all the freqs for your business and then be mad when someone comes in with a better system and allows folks on it for free.

So, KPG-49D Version 4.21 is what I have and it is Windows. See if you can download the file I've attached. MODs, if this is forbidden, my apologies up front. JG KPG-49D_v4.21.zip

The repeater is not your property, therefore you do not have the right to utilize it without permission from its owner. Simple as that.

The software is free. Get version KPG-49d v 6.30. JG

hahaha.... man, you're hilarious, OP. I think you shouldn't limit such delightfully entitled attitude of yours to just GMRS, after all why stop there, right? I've heard cops have radio systems with statewide coverage, yeah, and guess what: you're paying for those systems with your taxes!!, therefore you are totally entitled to use these frequencies too... yeah!! absolutely... crank that CCR PA to 100W and kerchunk that P25 statewide like a boss with some "Breaker Breaker, 10-4 10-4, roger copy that, out..." or if CB aint ya'r thing then some "CQ CQ, calling all buddies in this frequency, roger roger india sierra uniform charile kilo alpha bravo..." haha.... G.

Radio waves in GMRS band are public domain, but hardware is not. There is nothing more to it, repeaters are personally owned hardware. I do not expect to use someone else's radio just because I know where it is and how it works.

Good citizenship and giving back to the community for the common good are valid justifications why a repeater owner might open their repeater up for others individuals to use. I for one know that if I put one up I would most likely share it. I get the sense however from some that they feel I should be obligated to give them use of my equipment if I happened to have the means and choose to acquire it. It is that sense of entitlement that really troubles me. If I owned a chainsaw I would likely loan it out to a family member or neighbor when I learned they were in need and/or they otherwise asked. However, I would not look to kindly on a random person entering my property and using of my possessions without my consent merely because they learned from a friend of a friend that I owned what they wanted. Perhaps I grew up in an old school and time when being polite and asking permission were cherished and respected traits of a polite society. Perhaps now I need to learn things have changed and it is perfectly appropriate to borrow things from others without their consent. Under this mindset it would seem I should be able to borrow that lawnmower sitting outside in someone’s yard without their consent, or perhaps even their car which is sitting on a public street, as long as I return it when I am done with it. I will restate again (see my earlier post in this thread) that the FCC itself clearly showed its intent with regards to repeater access. They indicate (and I paraphrase) that the repeater owner “may” grant access to the use of the repeater to others and “may” revoke permission. In this regard, its is legally their decision. Don’t give the repeater owners a bad rap for not giving you permission to use their equipment. Instead, be thankful, friendly and polite to those that do give you permission. Perhaps befriend them with an offer to contribute towards ongoing operating expenses as a sign of your ongoing appreciation. If someone does not give you permission, respect their decision, don’t just steal it. If you really need a repeater find a legal way to get one of you own on the air. BTW, I am am both an amateur and GMRS licensee. I feel the same about both. Being respectful and polite goes a long way. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM P.S. If you are one that truly feels that all GMRS repeaters should be open to all, then perhaps the FCC needs to be lobbied and the Part 95 rules need to be changed. Be prepared however for higher taxes and or many current repeater owners taking them off the air as no one likes to be told what to do. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Okay, I’ll bite here. I own a repeater (Rugged 575) in Naperville, IL at 300' receive / 250’ transmit. It’s on a commercial site with other UHF and VHF radio systems as well. Not only have I spent nearly 5 figures setting this up correctly but I monitor it as if it was my baby, cuz, you know, it *IS* my baby. I built it with no financial help from anyone else. Of course there was other help I received by LOTS of other commercial repeater owners (Those of you that are reading know who you are) as I’ve come a long way in the last year and some change here. I have my repeater system set up for several different private family usage cases and I also have a tone for public which I closely monitor as well and others that are out there do use it. As a repeater owner I’m super happy to turn my radio on and hear other people using it. As a matter of fact just yesterday some other licensed GMRS users were using my repeater and I needed to use it with my wife as I was at the grocery store and I broke in and said, “hang tight guys, I need to talk to my wife for a minute. I’ll let you know when I’m done”. Anyways, I flipped to our tone, talked with her about the particulars, then went back to the public side and said “Carry on guys! Glad to hear you out there using the machine”. That being said, mine is set to “Ask permission” as well because as others have mentioned, I want to know who is using it to verify their license and location because it’s my system and it’s my responsibility to make sure it’s up to par on the commercial shared site. I have sent an email back to EVERY! SINGLE! PERSON! As well welcoming them with the tones to use it! I haven’t had the need (yet) to ever reject anyone from using my repeater but I still keep a tab on who has access to it as in my opinion, it’s my responsibility to do so. Not only that, but I have my custom verbiage I send back with every request as well stating that this is a family repeater as well and to aid to traffic on the other PL tone. Heck, I’ll paste what I send you can see where we are coming from with this: “The tone for my repeater is XXXX (left blank) (N – normal, not inverted). When you key up for the first time please identify yourself using your call sign and call for ROB. I am regulating who is using my repeater as it is being used for my family as well. I have received an exceeding amount of requests to use my repeater. Originally this was set up for family only use but seeing as the range is far better than expected, I have opened it up on an as-requested basis to any licensed GMRS operator. PLEASE NOTE: ALL TRAFFIC MUST YIELD TO MY FAMILY. The tone for public use is different than family so if you see your radio lighting up receiving on 462.575 but no audio is coming through on your radio it's because my family is talking so please do not key up until that traffic has cleared. Thanks and I hope to hear you on the air!” That being said, sometimes users don’t understand what a multi-table is either so I will say this too: When you first use a new repeater you should ALWAYS call out for a radio check IMO because you don’t know how that repeater is set up and should NEVER assume anything! I was in Iowa once and I made contact to the owner on the traveler tone (I was travelling) and he told me that it’s linked to another repeater in California! NONE of this information was posted on mygmrs.com and upon googling I couldn’t even find it either!!! It was good to know that I was keying multiple machines too and me and the owner had a nice long 30 minute conversation and he was glad I keyed up and shouted out! To sum up further as a repeater owner: *MOST*, but not *ALL* repeater owners don’t mind you using their machine I’ve found. Now I’m in the Midwest mind you, so again, no assumptions would be made for other machines that I’ve never used, but around here most repeater owners are very happy to have you on their machine and it brings a great smile to their face to know that they are serving the public with a reliable communication system and growing the hobby as well! Remember that GMRS isn’t HAM and HAM isn’t GMRS. A *LOT* of people out there want GMRS for family use under one license and that’s what I’m doing but I’ve decided to open it up to the public as well as the coverage is fairly decent. I looked at getting a business license and could have easily done it too but I like the idea of being able to chat with my family *AND* other GMRS users so here we are! Thanks!

At the risk of sounding arrogant. I've said this before and will re post it again