Jones

Others may disagree with me but that's a brave and compassionate man to order his crew off of the tower and remain there himself to figure out the problem.

Yes. You must identify according to the rules defined in part 95. However, the use of optional unit numbers or other modifiers is not required. If you wanted, all three family members could identify using exactly the same call sign. Unlike ham radio, where people usually call other stations using the call sign of the desired station, GMRS users typically just identify and then call someone by name. As in: “WQYR510. jerm, are you on?”

Reply from Southwest Missouri Regional SkyWarn director Michael Blake:
 
I am happy to say we are not on the PBS tower that fell, I am on the process of helping NOAA get their station back on the air, using one of our antennas, this will be the set up until they can get there antenna and coax installed on the same tower we are on,Thanks for checking on us. It means a lot to me.Michael Blake So there is the official word from N0NWS. On another note, for those who are not familiar with the "repack work" going on, our fabulously intelligent government has ordered all TV stations above channel 34 to "Re-Pack" themselves onto lower channels.  This also means that some lower channels must move down the dial.  Most must install new antennas.  This is also causing the displacement of some FM stations, since lower channels means larger antennas for TV transmission. The Government nuts are doing this because they have "Sold" all of the TV channels above 34 to the cellular phone and broadband companies, so the TV stations have to move out by the end of THIS YEAR!!!  ...an impossible feat, but congress idiots seem to think that changing channels of a transmitter site is about the same as changing the channels on your TV set.

Absolutely. Your license covers your extended family, including aunts, uncles, cousins, and in-laws.
 
You all would use the same callsign, (yours) and just use your names, or you can assign unit numbers.... as in my family, I am unit 1, wife is unit 2, sons in order of birth are units 3, 4, and 5.  If you have a big extended family get together, say at a lake, and everyone is using radios, just using your names is easier, but you all are under the same family callsign.
 
If your wife was calling you on the radio, she would say: "WRAU978 Unit 2 to Unit 1, Jeremy, can you hear me?".  Simple as that.

Absolutely. Your license covers your extended family, including aunts, uncles, cousins, and in-laws.
 
You all would use the same callsign, (yours) and just use your names, or you can assign unit numbers.... as in my family, I am unit 1, wife is unit 2, sons in order of birth are units 3, 4, and 5.  If you have a big extended family get together, say at a lake, and everyone is using radios, just using your names is easier, but you all are under the same family callsign.
 
If your wife was calling you on the radio, she would say: "WRAU978 Unit 2 to Unit 1, Jeremy, can you hear me?".  Simple as that.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on the forum!

We hope that everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving holiday. Please use caution if you are traveling - especially in areas of the US that are seeing abnormally cold temperatures and freezing precipitation.

Have a good day and be safe.
 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 
The MyGMRS Moderator Staff

RCM- Welcome to the forum.  I like your avatar... nice line drawing of a Shakespeare SE-2500 VHF Marine radio.  I wonder if anyone else caught that.

RCM- Welcome to the forum.  I like your avatar... nice line drawing of a Shakespeare SE-2500 VHF Marine radio.  I wonder if anyone else caught that.

For future reference of others, if the cable isn't changing, the COM port does not change. The COM port is tied to the chip in the cable and not the radio.

Well, well, well,...
Would anyone care to take a look at the front panels of the Pofung/Baofeng BF-9500, or the Anytone AT-588????

I do not know, and I do not own an LT-590, (nor a TH9000) but I would certainly be interested in finding out.  The radios look identical inside and out.  There are also VHF versions of each.  The TYT units have been discontinued, but I really think they live on under this Luiton brand name.
 
They must come from the same factory... just look at the difference in the quad-band units the TYT TH-9800 and the Luiton LT-9900 - same thing.
 
Does anyone here own an LT-590? If so, try using Chirp to read it as if it were a TYT 9000, and see if it works.  Inquiring minds want to know.  Bigger question, does anyone want to blow $25-30 on a cable for an LT-590 and try it on a Midland 400?  RT systems says the same "USB-29A" cable works on both the TYT and the Luiton, so... maybe on the Midlands?   Of course, if you can, and do re-program the Midlands, they are no longer type accepted.

Because I saw this today in the DB on a repeater listing: 
 
"Apr 9, 2017 -No you don't need permission from the repeater owner to use GMRS frequencies regardless of the repeater being private property. You're not violating private property laws by using a repeater that's on GMRS frequencies. If you want to control who can use your repeater you need a private business (IG) license."
 
I wanted to comment about it and it sort of falls under the topic of this post. He had several other things posted in there about license, and such, and like the above some seem more opinion than fact. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, and not trying to police him, I just don't agree. 
 
I don't think this is a good statement to make to others who may just be learning about GMRS. I have been licensed for 25 years, worked in some form of radio, including commercial 2way for a little longer than that, and no where have I ever seen where the FCC says that if you put a GMRS repeater on the air, you cannot control who uses it. It's correct that the frequencies are not exclusive nor "private property" as he says, and that if someone happened to be using the output simplex, there is nothing you can do about that....but most intelligent people understand that if that were the case and they were using simplex and a repeater started blasting them out...well, the users of the repeater may not even be able to hear them to start with...so it's better just change channels. We all have to share the available frequencies. 
 
I will and do control who uses my repeater by controlling the DPL code on it. If someone thinks they want to read my code, program their radio and try to use my repeater without my permission, well, that code will get shut off. At that point, it would be obvious they were being an ass, and not asking for permission in good faith. I have to share the frequency if someone else uses it, and I can hear them before I transmit, but I DO NOT have to share the use of my repeater. 
 
It is dangerous to mis-educate people, as dangerous as people not educating themselves or claiming ignorance. The worst problem I see in GMRS right now are people who are jumping in with both feet, no life vest and no swimsuit!  Making a splash, thinking they have it all figured out after 10 minutes of reading, and wanting to use partial knowledge of things to start suggesting "new" things, trying things they think would be neat...all while being new and naive about everything. That is one thing I like about HAM radio, you are kind of forced to learn some things before you get privileges. 
 
Sorry so wordy. 

I agree. Good post.
 
This is why I put this bit in our repeater description: (Tone is edited out for this thread.)
 
"In the very unlikely situation that our family should need the repeater during an important event or family emergency, a private tone will be used and all public tones temporarily locked out. We do not foresee this happening often, if at all. In such a situation, we will try to keep the repeater lock out to the absolute minimum time necessary. !The only tones authorized for non-family to use the repeater are XXXX.XX and the Travel Tone!"
 
The public currently has two tones to choose from. If the need would arise, they would be temporarily locked out with ease. If a member of the public accesses the repeater at any time with anything other than the afforded public tones, then I would consider them trespassing and they will be asked to change it or stop using the repeater. I consider this description to be ample notice.

I think you must be talking about something like the police use, which is a UHF walkie on their person that transmits to their cruiser parked outside, which then re-transmits it at higher power on either the 800MHz trunking system, or else VHF High-band back to dispatch.  That works because of cross-banding.  It won't work on GMRS, even with big cavities, and cross-banding such as GMRS to MURS is not allowed in Part 95.
 
If you are trying to talk back to your base station located 15 miles away, then a simple mobile repeater might do the trick.  Just run a normal base station, not another repeater.  Your handies could talk to the car repeater on 167, and your base would also hit the car's repeater on 167. The car transmits back to all on 162. That would be legal, and do-able.  (I would use a separate battery for that however. Otherwise, rag chewing might disable your ability to start the engine later.)
 
You talked about your repeater being blocks away... do you mean your base station, or your car is parked that far away?  If your home base station is only blocks away, you don't need a repeater. Use simplex.  If you are trying to talk with other walkies inside those giant box stores or malls, again, use simplex.  You don't need a repeater for that.
 
It sounds as if you are trying to make things way too complicated, yet you still haven't explained your true needs. To whom, and where do you need to speak?  It is possible that GMRS might not be your best solution.

I have always interpreted that as:
 
If you are running a private repeater, and you ID yourself, then your machine does not need an IDer.
 
If you are running an open repeater shared with other users, then your repeater needs to ID itself. Otherwise, your guest users would be required to ID as: "This is WQXE920 utilizing the WQYM541 Repeater".
 
That's my take on this... other opinions and translations may vary.

Greg,
 
I fully agree with this, and I'll admit that I was trying to simplify something that just isn't so simple.  If the antenna has a high SWR, a wattmeter may not read correctly anyway, due to the reflected voltage not necessarily being at a half-wave point in the return path.
 
The main problem is that many consumer-grade RF power meters do not actually measure power.  They measure a sample voltage at a given point in the transmission line, and estimate power based on a low-voltage/high-current place on the line.  Reflected power, depending on the phase and time of arrival at the metering point will either add to, or subtract from, that representative voltage, giving a false reading.  For example, if your input jumper is too long, and falls at a voltage high point in the overall line length, and the reflected power from a mismatched antenna also falls at a voltage high at that same point in the line, your voltage-driven power meter may show 45 Watts output from a 25 Watt transmitter.  With a half-wave input jumper, you will start out with a known voltage low point. A mismatched load will still cause a false reading, but usually not as severe. - Your reading will be "less wrong".
 
I guess in summary, if you want to measure output power of your transmitter, use a known good terminating resistor - A.K.A. Dummy Load. I've seen good 50 Ohm terminators selling for less than $40.

Greg,
 
I fully agree with this, and I'll admit that I was trying to simplify something that just isn't so simple.  If the antenna has a high SWR, a wattmeter may not read correctly anyway, due to the reflected voltage not necessarily being at a half-wave point in the return path.
 
The main problem is that many consumer-grade RF power meters do not actually measure power.  They measure a sample voltage at a given point in the transmission line, and estimate power based on a low-voltage/high-current place on the line.  Reflected power, depending on the phase and time of arrival at the metering point will either add to, or subtract from, that representative voltage, giving a false reading.  For example, if your input jumper is too long, and falls at a voltage high point in the overall line length, and the reflected power from a mismatched antenna also falls at a voltage high at that same point in the line, your voltage-driven power meter may show 45 Watts output from a 25 Watt transmitter.  With a half-wave input jumper, you will start out with a known voltage low point. A mismatched load will still cause a false reading, but usually not as severe. - Your reading will be "less wrong".
 
I guess in summary, if you want to measure output power of your transmitter, use a known good terminating resistor - A.K.A. Dummy Load. I've seen good 50 Ohm terminators selling for less than $40.

Info for those not familiar...
The popular "DB" line of antennas is/was made by Decibel Products, but due to various corporate buyouts and mergers became Andrew, and now CommScope.
 
Decibel Products DB-420
Andrew DB-420
CommScope DB-420
 
They are all one and the same.
 
...and they are my first choice.  The whole DB series, not just the 420.

The reading on a power meter will vary a LOT depending on where the meter sits in the overall total-length of coax cable.  To get an accurate reading, the meter MUST sit at an interval of 1/2 wavelength along the transmission line.  The only way to easily do this is by insuring that you are using a half-wave input jumper cable on your meter.
 
Cable electrical wavelength is figured by the Speed of Light (299,792,458 meters per second) divided by the frequency in Hertz, the dividend of which is multiplied by the velocity factor of the cable (look at the specs for the cable you are using).
 
For instance, if my meter's input jumper was made from RG-213u, I would see that the velocity factor for that cable is 0.66. (sometimes shown as 66%)
 
(NOTE: In this example, I have used 462.600 in the GMRS band as my desired frequency. 462,600,000 Hz)
 
Let's do the math: 299792458 / 462600000 = 0.6480597881539127 * Velocity factor of 0.66 = 0.4277194601815824 Meters.  That is a full-wavelength of cable, and we need a half wavelength, so cut it in half. So, your jumper cable into the meter should be about 21.5 centimeters long, or about 8.5 inches.
 
If you were using a smaller cable, like RG-58u with a foam dielectric, which has a velocity factor of 0.535, then you would need  .1734 Meter jumper, or about 6.8 inch jumper to correctly match the input of your meter.
 
If you are using just some random-length input jumper, particularly if it is over a full wavelength long, then you may not be even close to the half-wave point, depending on the length of the rest of the cable going to the antenna, and the meter will not read right.  If you use this calculated length of input jumper, accounting for its velocity factor, then whatever is on the output side makes no difference to the reading accuracy.
 
By the way, this rule goes for SWR meters as well as power meters.  If you set up your UHF antenna with a 3-foot truck-stop CB jumper going into your meter, then you are likely WAY out of 'whack'. These rules still apply at HF also.  It isn't as critical below 30 MHz since the wavelength is so long, but if you use a 4 or 5 foot long meter jumper at CB frequencies, it WILL be wrong. At 27.205 MHz, use a 6 inch jumper, or else a 9.6 foot one for accuracy.
 
Tech hint: I keep several different lengths of pre-made jumpers in my Bird watt meter case for different frequency bands that I normally work with, and have them all tagged as to what band range they are for.  The higher you go in frequency, the more critical this gets, and the SHORTER they get... sometimes TOO short, thus for 950 MHz, I keep a 15.6 inch jumper of LMR-400, which is 1.5 Wavelengths, but still on a calculated half-wavelength point in the line.  A 5.2 inch long LMR-400 jumper is too short to work with.
 
Long winded, sorry, but I hope this helps.
 
-Jones

The reading on a power meter will vary a LOT depending on where the meter sits in the overall total-length of coax cable.  To get an accurate reading, the meter MUST sit at an interval of 1/2 wavelength along the transmission line.  The only way to easily do this is by insuring that you are using a half-wave input jumper cable on your meter.
 
Cable electrical wavelength is figured by the Speed of Light (299,792,458 meters per second) divided by the frequency in Hertz, the dividend of which is multiplied by the velocity factor of the cable (look at the specs for the cable you are using).
 
For instance, if my meter's input jumper was made from RG-213u, I would see that the velocity factor for that cable is 0.66. (sometimes shown as 66%)
 
(NOTE: In this example, I have used 462.600 in the GMRS band as my desired frequency. 462,600,000 Hz)
 
Let's do the math: 299792458 / 462600000 = 0.6480597881539127 * Velocity factor of 0.66 = 0.4277194601815824 Meters.  That is a full-wavelength of cable, and we need a half wavelength, so cut it in half. So, your jumper cable into the meter should be about 21.5 centimeters long, or about 8.5 inches.
 
If you were using a smaller cable, like RG-58u with a foam dielectric, which has a velocity factor of 0.535, then you would need  .1734 Meter jumper, or about 6.8 inch jumper to correctly match the input of your meter.
 
If you are using just some random-length input jumper, particularly if it is over a full wavelength long, then you may not be even close to the half-wave point, depending on the length of the rest of the cable going to the antenna, and the meter will not read right.  If you use this calculated length of input jumper, accounting for its velocity factor, then whatever is on the output side makes no difference to the reading accuracy.
 
By the way, this rule goes for SWR meters as well as power meters.  If you set up your UHF antenna with a 3-foot truck-stop CB jumper going into your meter, then you are likely WAY out of 'whack'. These rules still apply at HF also.  It isn't as critical below 30 MHz since the wavelength is so long, but if you use a 4 or 5 foot long meter jumper at CB frequencies, it WILL be wrong. At 27.205 MHz, use a 6 inch jumper, or else a 9.6 foot one for accuracy.
 
Tech hint: I keep several different lengths of pre-made jumpers in my Bird watt meter case for different frequency bands that I normally work with, and have them all tagged as to what band range they are for.  The higher you go in frequency, the more critical this gets, and the SHORTER they get... sometimes TOO short, thus for 950 MHz, I keep a 15.6 inch jumper of LMR-400, which is 1.5 Wavelengths, but still on a calculated half-wavelength point in the line.  A 5.2 inch long LMR-400 jumper is too short to work with.
 
Long winded, sorry, but I hope this helps.
 
-Jones

Glad to help.  If you have any kind of jumper close to 7.5 inches or so, it will likely be close enough at 460MHz.  It may still show a difference in power levels between your different antennas, but not as drastic of a difference as your 2 foot jumper will show.  If you happen to hit it right on the half-wavelength mark, then there should be no noticeable difference between forward power level readings on any of your antennas, unless one of your antennas is bad -  then the transmitter might "fold back", or shut down for protection.
 
ALSO: If you want a true representation of the output power of your radio, don't measure it into an antenna, use a half-wave jumper into your meter, with a 50 Ohm dummy load connected directly to the output of your meter.
 
While I'm here, as long as reflected power is very low compared to forward, or if your SWR is less than 2:1, then it's close enough to work. If it's less than 1.7:1 then it's good. At 1.5:1, it's GREAT! Tweak it if you must, but the difference between 1.5:1 SWR and 1.1:1 SWR is not worth fighting for. In most cases, just follow the manufacturer's cutting chart.  ...and trying to fine-tune a quarter-wave stub at 460MHz is absolutely foolish.

The reading on a power meter will vary a LOT depending on where the meter sits in the overall total-length of coax cable.  To get an accurate reading, the meter MUST sit at an interval of 1/2 wavelength along the transmission line.  The only way to easily do this is by insuring that you are using a half-wave input jumper cable on your meter.
 
Cable electrical wavelength is figured by the Speed of Light (299,792,458 meters per second) divided by the frequency in Hertz, the dividend of which is multiplied by the velocity factor of the cable (look at the specs for the cable you are using).
 
For instance, if my meter's input jumper was made from RG-213u, I would see that the velocity factor for that cable is 0.66. (sometimes shown as 66%)
 
(NOTE: In this example, I have used 462.600 in the GMRS band as my desired frequency. 462,600,000 Hz)
 
Let's do the math: 299792458 / 462600000 = 0.6480597881539127 * Velocity factor of 0.66 = 0.4277194601815824 Meters.  That is a full-wavelength of cable, and we need a half wavelength, so cut it in half. So, your jumper cable into the meter should be about 21.5 centimeters long, or about 8.5 inches.
 
If you were using a smaller cable, like RG-58u with a foam dielectric, which has a velocity factor of 0.535, then you would need  .1734 Meter jumper, or about 6.8 inch jumper to correctly match the input of your meter.
 
If you are using just some random-length input jumper, particularly if it is over a full wavelength long, then you may not be even close to the half-wave point, depending on the length of the rest of the cable going to the antenna, and the meter will not read right.  If you use this calculated length of input jumper, accounting for its velocity factor, then whatever is on the output side makes no difference to the reading accuracy.
 
By the way, this rule goes for SWR meters as well as power meters.  If you set up your UHF antenna with a 3-foot truck-stop CB jumper going into your meter, then you are likely WAY out of 'whack'. These rules still apply at HF also.  It isn't as critical below 30 MHz since the wavelength is so long, but if you use a 4 or 5 foot long meter jumper at CB frequencies, it WILL be wrong. At 27.205 MHz, use a 6 inch jumper, or else a 9.6 foot one for accuracy.
 
Tech hint: I keep several different lengths of pre-made jumpers in my Bird watt meter case for different frequency bands that I normally work with, and have them all tagged as to what band range they are for.  The higher you go in frequency, the more critical this gets, and the SHORTER they get... sometimes TOO short, thus for 950 MHz, I keep a 15.6 inch jumper of LMR-400, which is 1.5 Wavelengths, but still on a calculated half-wavelength point in the line.  A 5.2 inch long LMR-400 jumper is too short to work with.
 
Long winded, sorry, but I hope this helps.
 
-Jones

Is that rise between your town house and ranch? If so, that might be a problem, but likely not.
 
I can get 15 miles from base to mobile anytime in the flat lands of southern Nebraska, so I doubt it will be a problem for you.
 
Installing a repeater on the high ground at your ranch would be ideal, since the base in town would easily bounce off that, and so could your family members working out on the ranch with handhelds.  Even non-family workers could use it, as long as they have individual GRMS licenses.
 
MTX 400 is a good radio, but don't use the cheap antenna they come packaged with.  Use high-quality antennas and coax cable.  Also, don't use the cigar-lighter plugs they come with.  Wire them up correctly, permanent installation style, and use a suitably rated power supply for the base.
 
On the mobile, (I assume pickup truck) drill a hole, and use an NMO mount antenna on the roof, as close to center as practical.  Don't skimp with a mag mount, or try to use an antenna mounted on the front fender, or you will be disappointed.  In my professional experience, a quarter wave on the roof, (which at UHF is about 6 inches tall) will out-perform a high-gain co-linear antenna on the front fender any day.

My family uses unit numbers, but not very often. Names work just as good.
 
In my family; my wife and I, and our oldest son are all hams.  Our 2 younger sons are not hams. (yet)
 
What's funny is that our youngest son takes this GMRS identification business more seriously than any of the rest of us.  I will call him on GMRS as: "Hey Mike, it's Dad, copy?"  He will respond with: "This is WQYM-Five Four One, unit 5 to unit 1, go ahead Dad."