WSAR579

True. Any radio that will work in the above situation will likely be a commercial radio.
 
Try looking for a Kenwood TK-370G-1, 128 channels, TK-3170, 128 channels or a TK-3140, 250 channels. These are 1 to 4 watt switchable hand held radios, and can be programmed to do wide or narrow band FM on a per channel basis. All of these are Part 95 certified. The radio I normally use is the 370G-1.
 
https://mra-raycom.com/wp-content/uploads/simple-file-list/Specifications/portables/TK-270G-370G-Product-Brochure.pdf
 
https://5.imimg.com/data5/MT/AL/MY-2136226/tk-3170-handheld-portable-walkie-talkie.pdf
https://www.ameradio.com/doc/Kenwood_TK2140_3140.pdf
 
While the official lower frequency limit is 450MHz for the models that cover the GMRS frequencies  but I have programmed them down close to 440MHz in the Ham band. The software pops up a warning window every time you try to enter the out of band frequencies but will accept it when you click OK. The radios will work a few percent outside of the official range. Most of the Ham simplex channels and repeaters are located between 440 MHz and 450 MHz per the ARRL band plans anyway.
 
The main point with these kind of radios is there are I means to front panel program them and nothing like a VFO on a Ham only type radio. What I did on mine is program a sequence of channels with frequencies like 446.000, 446.025, 446.050 etc. The channel names were 446-000, 446-025, 446-050 etc. This gives a fair simulation of a VFO with a 25KHz step size which is pretty standard on 70cm.
 
I think most Hams have their radios programmed for repeater access with a few simplex channels used  by a local groups.
 
I’ve recommended the aboveKenwood radios because that’s what I have. There are other very good radios from Motorola and others that members can recommend too. 

Hey folks, a few months back, I discussed providing a presentation on the introduction to GMRS, to just cover the basics. We held the presentation a couple of weeks ago and I wanted to share the video with everyone. 
 
Fair warning, I'm not a pro YouTuber and my collar mic dropped with a few minutes left... please be gentle. LoL
 
This is geared towards people with little to no experience. Hopefully it helps some people. 
 
The PowerPoint presentation is available for download, here...
 
https://marcspaz.com/gmrs/GMRS101.ppsx
 
Thank you to those who helped with content ideas.
 
 
 

I have had/used every brand of GMRS radio in my Jeep(s) and almost every model of every brand, and for Part 95 "GMRS" radios, I prefer the Wouxun KG1000G.  It is a better quality radio than BTech and most (maybe all) the other brands, it outputs a full 50W, and has a remote-mount removable faceplate.  Several of my off-road friends use this radio and they are all happy with it.
And FYI - even though its spelled Wooks-On, it's pronounced "Ocean" .

Hey everyone! Completely new to two-way radios and GMRS, etc… but I’ve been lurking and researching and reading through as many threads as possible for awhile and between y’all and the general internet, I feel like I’ve gotten a pretty good base understanding of everything. 
I’ve held off on asking questions bc most of them are already addressed either here, YouTube, RadioReference, etc… so I apologize if this information is already out there somewhere and I just missed it.
1 - As someone who doesn’t have a network of radio enthusiast friends, what’s one guy to do with a solo radio? I know the obvious answer is to buy a second one for my wife and hound her on it (ha!), but outside of that… what can I actually accomplish with an old analog radio? I want it in the event that cell phones are out of commission, power goes down, etc… and I picked the TK390 (450-490) after seeing enough positive feedback that I was confident in my purchase. I’m just curious what its capabilities are for a solo guy with one.
2 - When programming the channels into it, I assume just programming the 16 GMRS channels is a good place to start? Should I skip the FRS channels? With the Repeater channels being 15-22R, are those sequential AFTER the first 22 channels (IE: 23-30) or are those just the “second column” of the corresponding GMRS channels (Tx/Rx)? 
I know most of the local emergency stuff (police, EMS, etc) have likely switched to digital so I won’t get to eavesdrop on those frequencies, but everything I’ve read said to learn on an Analog first and then make the switch to DMR/P25 once I’ve gotten comfortable with/better understand the capabilities of two-way radios. 
3 - When looking at Repeater info for programming purposes: is the Repeater’s (Tx) MY corresponding (Rx)? For example, if a Repeater says 462.500, does that number go in my Encode or Decode column? I’m assuming the Repeater’s Transmit Frequency would be my Receive Frequency, right? Do Repeaters generally Receive on the Low Frequency (462.500) and Transmit on the High one (467.500), or vice versa? I hope I’m asking that right… perhaps a better way to ask would be: if a Repeater says it’s Rx is 462.500, is that info telling me that MY Rx should be set to 462.500, or that the Repeater’s Rx is that and therefore my Tx should be programmed to that.
Anyway, I’m excited to join the group and look forward to hearing any answers that you’re all kind enough to share! Thanks in advance!
- Jeff

Yep, that’s the one! I actually acquired the cable and the software, and have been able to program a few local repeaters and write them to the radio. I’ve successfully one up, as identified by what everyone is calling the “squelch tail,” so I believe I’m on the right track!

Glad to help.
I do not have that radio or know anything about it so I will let others answer your questions about it. Just looked it up for reference:
https://www.ameradio.com/product/5165/description.html is this the one?
I assume it requires software to program do you have that? It could be a project to get it set up for GMRS.
Good luck!

Welcome!
You bit off quite alot for your first GMRS radio. Here is an article that is good for beginners to read:
https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2024/01/how-to-buy-your-first-gmrs-radio.html

The 470-512 MHz part of the spectrum is called the "T" Band because that part of the spectrum was originally  reserved/allocated for TV Channels 14-20.
However, the T-Band freqs may be granted for some LMR use, primarily Public Safety, and some specialized mobile radio systems, only in large metropolitan regions such as Los Angeles, San Francisco Bay Area, New York, etc.
Back in the early 80s, The Los Angeles Sheriff Department was using Lowband VHF freqs (39 MHz) and was in dire need of additional freqs to expand their radio system. There were no VHF and UHF freqs available so they initiated action to acquire spectrum in the lower UHF TV channels because they were not being used at that time in the LA area.
The Los Angeles Police Department was also in the same situation with their VHF Highband system. The LAPD also joined the effort with the LA Sheriff which started the reallocation of the lower UHF TV channels be used on a shared basis for public safety agencies in certain metro areas in the country.
The FCC granted the LA Sheriff use of the 480 Freqs, the LAPD use of the 500 MHz, and the use of 470-480 MHz freqs for Specialized Mobile Radio (SMR) systems.
Thus, the T-Band was born for LMR use in the subject metro areas of the country.

Welcome!
1. Listen for traffic. Depending on where you are you might hear a little or a lot. 
2. I would program all of them. 
The repeater channels (15R - 22R, or 23 - 30 on some radios) receive on exactly the same frequencies as the simplex channels 15 - 22.
3. The 462 MHz frequencies are where your radio receives from a repeater. You transmit to the repeater on the 467 MHz frequencies. You transmit to the repeater’s receiver. The repeater transmits to your receiver. You encode a tone to open the repeater. 
You can either use a decode tone to hear the repeater or you can leave the decode tone empty and hear everything on that frequency. 

Yes. Where it says Mode, it will say FMN, (narrow FM), FM, which are both analog, or DMR, P25, NXDN, and posssibly others, which are digital.

If you have literally nothing else to do, you can take a look at RadioReference. I've linked my state below so you can get an idea what it looks like. Clicking on a specific link will show you what frequencies different organizations use.
https://www.radioreference.com/db/browse/stid/6

If you get a certified GMRS radio you won’t have the ability anyway.  FCC won’t certify a radio for GMRS that’s capable of being easily tuned to transmit on other bands.

Here’s a snippet of the spectrum chart. Unfortunately it doesn’t really help much:
 
Here’s the chart in full:

Thank you Steve, that all makes sense! That also helps refine and reinforce some of my understandings about picking up repeaters, talk-around, etc… 
I appreciate the info!
 

There’s nothing wrong with having a conversation and sometimes, in a conversation, a person will circle back to a question for more detail or even out of skepticism.  “Maybe I didn’t hear that right?” “But what about this case — it seems different?” And sometimes, those of us who are explaining things answer the question we hear, not the one you asked.  So, go ahead and ask as many questions as you want.  But, understand that we might get testy if you ask the same question over and over in the same way.
Repeaters do not need to be in-between two radios geographically.  They just need to be within range of both of the two radios and the two radios must be within the coverage pattern of the repeater antenna.  That pattern is usually described as fanning out circularly and horizontally.
There are a few characteristics that makes a repeater more effective at achieving greater range:
Their antennas are usually placed on high terrain and then installed on towers that raise them even higher, to improve the line of site, Their antennas direct their transmission power outward horizontally (and often slightly downward) to target a specific region. The better commercial repeaters are designed to have better receivers than off-the-shelf GMRS radios, usually much better.  Being better quality makes a big difference. They have more sensitivity to pick up weaker signals and they have greater selectivity to help reject interference from other signals. The commercial repeaters are also designed with better transmitters, but for GMRS they are limited to 50 watts.  What makes them better is the accuracy of their frequency oscillation and the absence of spurious emissions. Having higher power will help increase the range, but less than you might expect. The important thing is visibility, line of sight. There’s nothing about duplex communications that enhances range over simplex communications.  If you and I each have a radio and we cannot reach each other, placing a repeater where one of us is standing, with its antenna placed down low like our antenna are will probably do nothing to help, but replacing one of us with an antenna that pokes out above all the surrounding buildings and hills will help a lot.
If the repeater antenna is up high enough, and there’s a straight line of sight between your antenna and the repeater antenna, it’s entirely possible to get 10 miles or further.  I live in the mountains. There’s a repeater to the south of me that’s 4000 feet above me and 9 miles away from my house in town.  I can travel 16 miles farther north to my cabin and still easily reach that repeater with a five watt handheld radio, even a very cheap radio.. The people I have talked to using the repeater have been as far south of the repeater as 45 miles, as far east as 70 miles, and as far west as 20 miles. But because of an intervening peak of another mountain there’s one direction that’s probably less than a mile.  It really depends on terrain, topography, structures, and quality.
So the only two correct answers to your questions about flat suburbia and ranges are “it depends” and “maybe.”  If you’re willing to spend the money to install a high quality commercial repeater with a high quality high antenna, it’s highly probable to achieve the range you want.  In fact, simply connecting high quality antennas to your radios and raising those antennas up high might be able get you the range you need. 
So, more specifically, yes, a five watt radio can reliably reach a repeater five or ten miles away if the conditions are right.  Can it work in your instance?  You’re the only one who can answer that.  Try it.  If it doesn’t work with your handheld antenna put an antenna on your car roof.  Or try it with a fifty watt mobile unit and a good mobile antenna on top of your car.  Finally, hook up a fifty watt mobile radio to a base station antenna extending above the roof of your house. Please let us know.
And feel free to ask more questions.
 

first question: yes, that's correct.  i'll share a real world example from the ham side (on 70cm, which is nearly identical, signal wise, to gmrs), with the caveat that i don't do much (if any) simplex on GMRS, as the family has ZERO interest.
using my base setup (which is a pair of mobiles and a base antenna in the closet) chatting with someone who lives in the next town up the highway via the local repeater, which is 23 miles from me. discover he's in town shopping at the moment, talking in on his mobile from a shopping center 25 miles from the repeater, and just 6.5 miles from me.  i switched over to the repeater input to see if i could hear him, but not much beyond an occasional burst of static.  i can hear the repeater clearly on a handheld inside the house, and can talk in with no problem from outside in the yard, but going direct just over 6 miles apart was no go.
second question: hard to say on "reasonable"...is it possible? absolutely.  it's going to be very dependent on height, but it's a little bit of a stretch to assume radio towers.  some may be one of the users here, with a 5 watt Retevis 'repeater in a box' on a 20' top rail mast, or mounted on a barn.  dealing with the high level stuff we have in CA, i've talked into a gmrs repeater over 60 miles out from the 3rd floor of a hotel with a handheld, and managed 75ish to a ham repeater in the same area from a high spot in the hills (basically clear line of sight over the valley), but those repeaters i'm working with are on foothill ridges at 3000-4500 ft above sea level. obstructions are the biggest challenge for a largely line of sight signal like gmrs.
here's a quick edit to the diagram in the first post illustrating my example (though i'm using gmrs frequencies in the diagram, illustrating hearing via the repeater was no problem, but listening on the repeater input, no luck.