WRAK968

no, thats what we call a "Whacker" lol

Not all base antennas can be secured to a 3/4" pipe though. And depending on the antenna they use, the 3/4" could bend in higher winds which is why my go-to is 1-1.5" 1/8" thick galvanized pipe. Its heavy, but it works and lasts.

"The FCC when they approve a cell tower and a cell provider a license, require them to install and maintain a GMRS repeater." Would never every happen. I remember a group of hams who said the same thing about ham radio repeaters to help with RACES/ARES/Skywarn. If cell companies and the FCC weren't willing to work with emergency communications groups (Who by the way, often help those company's by setting up portable cell repeaters) they sure as heck wouldn't want to pay for and maintain GMRS repeaters that could be used by anyone, anywhere, anytime, while being liable for any issues that could come from such operations. The only way they would allow it would be if it was a pay-to-use system which is not allowed by FCC rules.

The main difference between VHF and UHF is that VHF seems to travel better over long distances, while UHF is better at punching through obstacles like walls and trees. This is why the US railroad frequency list and marine frequency list are mostly made up of VHF frequencies. UHF also has better bandwidth occupancy if I recall

Lot of information you need there sir, and so far Boxcar, N4GIX, and Zack have covered several parts of your requests. Here is my take on it:

1) GMRS covers your family only. I remember the local CERT wanting to use my GMRS repeater in the event of a major storm. I explained that in order for them to legally do this, each user would need their own license. I also explained that unlike ham radio where an emergency net has priority, GMRS has no stipulations, anyone can use it. For what you wish to use it for, I believe there are "Private" licenses, which are not on the GMRS frequencies, that you can apply for. This allows you to designate any person or group to transmit on your licensed frequency, and you would be responsible for any compliance issues that may come up. Likewise, you can use other radio services such as MURS without a license, however you cannot use a repeater and are restricted to 2 watts.

2) I've never been a fan of the micro mobile series. To me, the functionality does not meet the price. I can order a Kenwood TK880 for about $50 and have 25 watts output, plus I can program and save specific repeater splits into the radio with names and such. For about $25 more you can purchase the "H" model which will give you 45 watts. 880 series is smaller than most car stereos and fits almost anywhere. As for overheating, I am a strong believer in using TOT's or Time Out Timers. This prevents you from transmitting for long periods without giving the radio a chance to "rest and cool down." As for antenna's, I really don't have an opinion on them. Try to get something good from a brand you trust. 1/4 wave antennas if I recall dont need a ground plane and would be best if you plan to carry it around with you.

3) After reviewing the rules, I do not see a ban on store and forward devices, which fall under automatic control and is allowed by the FCC by licensed users. Store and forward MUST be on one of the repeater output channels and must be used in conjunction of a license. Store and forward is also restricted to low power. I may have overlooked something though so make sure to study the rules yourself and make your best judgement call.

4) Your repeater is only as good as your antenna. You should try to get your antenna up high so that you gt the best coverage you can. As for station grounding and lightning protection, a qualified electrician should be called in. I've seen some operators use the ground post for the AC mains power for protection however this isn't recommended as it gives lightning another path into the house. For proper protection, the best way to go would be to talk to an electrician about installing a lightning protected ground rod, which is longer than your mains ground rod. (Lightning protected ground rods can be anywhere from 16-100 feet depending on the soil type.) You would then need to install lightning arresters to your feedline, one near the antenna, one near the entrance to whatever structure you will store the radio in (house or shed.)

5) back to #2, TK880 is small and light weight.

6) See #2 and #5, TK880 is inexpensive but a workhorse. The big things to check are, Is the radio type accepted for GMRS (Part 95) you'll need to put the radios FCC ID into the FCC lookup and see what the FCC has certified it for. If its part 95 then your doing good. The other is the band. for GMRS you need something that covers from 460-470. TK880 has 3 UHF radios, Type 1 I believe covers 400-430, type two covers 450-490 and type three covers 480-520. You would need a type 2 radio 450-490 for GMRS use. Outside of that, its just features that YOU may want. Things like scan or radio ID or channel grouping.

7) GMRS was not exactly developed for emergency operations, though it can be used for such. It was designed to keep family members in touch with one another and to allow like minded licensed individuals to meet up with one another. Don't expect SHTF operations should all comms go down. For that, stick with ham radio where there is training and procedure to emcomms

For GMRS, Ver. 1 and Ver. 2  radios are the same. Ver. 2 radios have a slightly different schematic and some different features that are used in LMR/commercial  operations.

I am using the 712EFC antenna with Timesmicrowave LMR400 for my household repeater. Now my range isnt too great because of the height, (17' above ground, thanks to not owning my property and the landlord being afraid of the insurance costs of a tower on his land) but upgrading the feedline and antenna nearly doubled the range I had. (Originally I was running RG8X and a Diamond 200U)

Still there are other factors in play. What is the terrain between your house and the repeater you are trying to hit? If there is a mountain or very large hill between you and the repeater, chances are you'll need a taller antenna structure, not just a higher gain antenna. If you have a ton of pine trees, you may find the new setup (Higher power and better antenna) works well for you as it punches through the trees. You may also benefit from a lower loss feedline meaning less dB loss for the radios receiver, and more power getting into the antenna from the transmitter.

You likely would have done better using a N female to PL259, MPD digital cables basically have a lifetime guarantee, but if you cut them you lose that

LMR400 also crimps a bit differently. You need to have the proper connectors and tools to make sure the crimp is correct with as little loss as possible. My experience is that your better off with soldier/crimp combinations when it comes to LMR cables. You have to make sure the cable is cut cleanly (Using a pair of shears is not advised) and accurately (1/16" of an inch off with your shielding can cause a lot of issues with reflected power) A lot of people will claim the loss is from the PL259 connection added in, but personally I haven't seen much effect unless you have multiple PL259 connectors in a long run of coax, and even then, I think the length of coax has more to do with loss than the connectors do.

Lastly, its very difficult to get a perfect 1:1 in SWR and 0 reflected power. II tell people that if they are less than 1.3:1 SWR they shouldn't continue tweaking their system as its easy to lose ground just as you have.

You likely would have done better using a N female to PL259, MPD digital cables basically have a lifetime guarantee, but if you cut them you lose that

LMR400 also crimps a bit differently. You need to have the proper connectors and tools to make sure the crimp is correct with as little loss as possible. My experience is that your better off with soldier/crimp combinations when it comes to LMR cables. You have to make sure the cable is cut cleanly (Using a pair of shears is not advised) and accurately (1/16" of an inch off with your shielding can cause a lot of issues with reflected power) A lot of people will claim the loss is from the PL259 connection added in, but personally I haven't seen much effect unless you have multiple PL259 connectors in a long run of coax, and even then, I think the length of coax has more to do with loss than the connectors do.

Lastly, its very difficult to get a perfect 1:1 in SWR and 0 reflected power. II tell people that if they are less than 1.3:1 SWR they shouldn't continue tweaking their system as its easy to lose ground just as you have.

You likely would have done better using a N female to PL259, MPD digital cables basically have a lifetime guarantee, but if you cut them you lose that

LMR400 also crimps a bit differently. You need to have the proper connectors and tools to make sure the crimp is correct with as little loss as possible. My experience is that your better off with soldier/crimp combinations when it comes to LMR cables. You have to make sure the cable is cut cleanly (Using a pair of shears is not advised) and accurately (1/16" of an inch off with your shielding can cause a lot of issues with reflected power) A lot of people will claim the loss is from the PL259 connection added in, but personally I haven't seen much effect unless you have multiple PL259 connectors in a long run of coax, and even then, I think the length of coax has more to do with loss than the connectors do.

Lastly, its very difficult to get a perfect 1:1 in SWR and 0 reflected power. II tell people that if they are less than 1.3:1 SWR they shouldn't continue tweaking their system as its easy to lose ground just as you have.

You likely would have done better using a N female to PL259, MPD digital cables basically have a lifetime guarantee, but if you cut them you lose that

LMR400 also crimps a bit differently. You need to have the proper connectors and tools to make sure the crimp is correct with as little loss as possible. My experience is that your better off with soldier/crimp combinations when it comes to LMR cables. You have to make sure the cable is cut cleanly (Using a pair of shears is not advised) and accurately (1/16" of an inch off with your shielding can cause a lot of issues with reflected power) A lot of people will claim the loss is from the PL259 connection added in, but personally I haven't seen much effect unless you have multiple PL259 connectors in a long run of coax, and even then, I think the length of coax has more to do with loss than the connectors do.

Lastly, its very difficult to get a perfect 1:1 in SWR and 0 reflected power. II tell people that if they are less than 1.3:1 SWR they shouldn't continue tweaking their system as its easy to lose ground just as you have.

They must have changed it since I posted it as none of that info was there, In fact they had claimed it was 3W output at the time while the picture and their ad showed 8W (The pic still says 8W on it). Thanks for finding the data on them though

Actually, I was more curious about the radios specs. All I could find was that it was thin, output 3W, and transmits F3E (FM). I am thinking its a GMRS radio, though the ad doesn't say, so it could also be 900MHZ, though if thats the case I think the radio would be locked in at .5W. Given the other falsehoods (Digital transmissions, 8W power output) on the site I wouldn't purchase the radio myself. But as a radio geek (otherwise known as a ham) it still makes me curious about how the radio works lol.

I am using the 712EFC antenna with Timesmicrowave LMR400 for my household repeater. Now my range isnt too great because of the height, (17' above ground, thanks to not owning my property and the landlord being afraid of the insurance costs of a tower on his land) but upgrading the feedline and antenna nearly doubled the range I had. (Originally I was running RG8X and a Diamond 200U)

Still there are other factors in play. What is the terrain between your house and the repeater you are trying to hit? If there is a mountain or very large hill between you and the repeater, chances are you'll need a taller antenna structure, not just a higher gain antenna. If you have a ton of pine trees, you may find the new setup (Higher power and better antenna) works well for you as it punches through the trees. You may also benefit from a lower loss feedline meaning less dB loss for the radios receiver, and more power getting into the antenna from the transmitter.

It can be, at least I know there is a fine adjustment thing, but youll want a shop to do this to make sure the radio is in full alignment. Also of important note, its odd that you could reach other repeaters while using codes. Odd, very odd, My concern would be you adjust so the 141.3 tone opens up the other radio, but then your other tones are thrown off and nolonger work. I would go to a dealer/service dept. Shouldn't be too expensive (maybe $100-150), but youll know that everything will be set properly using the proper test equipment.

Since I couldn't get a direct answer, I downloaded and installed chirp. I am assuming you used Chirp's default FRS/GMRS lineup. If that is the case, you should have FRS 1-14, and GMRS 1-8 All channels are simplex. GMRS 1-8 are actually channels 15-22 on the bubble pack radios.  If both radios have the same FRS/GMRS chart installed then they should both work if they are on the same channel.

Now, you keep talking about GMRS channels 9 and 10 which is NOT in the factory chirp file which surely you now understand my confusion and why I asked about how you have programed the radio. GMRS 9 and 10 could be FRS 9 and 10, they could be repeater channels, they could be a goofed up channel you put in. Without seeing data and instead being given info on power output means I cant help you figure out where the mistake is. It could be a programming error, a bad code plug, could be one of the radios was defective, could be human error. Without the info I asked about I cant even begin to figure out what is going on.

That was very helpful PL is ham for QT/DQT, or another words, the 141.3 tone.

You seem to have everything set properly. You said you can talk to the armored repeater ok. Im wondering if the Oconomowoc675 repeater went down for maintenance or some other issue. Try using the midland radio to access the Oconomowoc675 repeater. If it works then we know for sure it has to be something with the kenwood. If that's the case, there isn't much more you can do until you purchase a meter and dummy load, or take it to a radio shop to be looked at.

My bad, I thought it was an issue going the other way around. I looked up the Oconomowoc675 repeater and you are right, they are showing 141.3 so that is an odd one. Lets do a default check. First, check that the channel is in WIDE mode. Sometimes this causes an issue when distance is involved.

When you confirmed that, we can use the Midland radio to test the Kenwoods PL tone encoder which could have gone out of whack. You only need one antenna for this as the midland doesn't need to transmit, only receive, though a dummy load would be a better option. Power up both radios on the same simplex channel and PL codes. Key the kenwood and see if you can hear it on the midland. If you can, it means the PL encoder is working as it should. We can reverse this to test the kenwoods tone decoder. Simply switch the antenna to the midland radio and key the midland radio, listening on the kenwood.

The last thing I can come up with would be that the radio is off frequency or low power when transmitting on 467 which you would need a meter and equipment to test.

Well I ask because there are only 22 channels in total between GMRS and FRS, plus 8 additional repeater inputs. (which use channels 15-22 as outputs) So if you are able to connect on the 22 FRS channels, that only leaves the 8 GMRS repeater channels.

And last, MAKE SURE THE ANTENNA IS CONNECTED!! >.< I drove myself nuts for three weeks trying to figure out why my radio wouldn't TX more than a few houses, turned out when I reprogrammed the radio I forgot to plug he antenna back into the radio. DOH!

Just saw your reply, does not seem to be an antenna disconnect issue.

Check to see if you can still hit the repeater with your midland radio. If your able to hit repeaters that are further away from you than the repeater in question, it leaves only three thoughts in mind. A) the repeater is down, B ) closer higher power traffic is getting in, cutting you out of the loop, and C) there is an issue with the PL tone encoder on the kenwood that is not allowing you into the system.

Looking up the listing for Armored 1 you are using the wrong codes to get into that repeater. Rich, if it is ok with you I can post the correct tones, or the direct link to the system and that should correct his issue I think.

"do i put the input freq in my radio as the TX or the RX?"
Input (467) side should be on your radios TX, and the output (462) side should be on the radios RX.


"Also what is the difference in the programing between D123I and D123N?"
DCS tones have both Normal and Inverted states, thus you have a D123N for normal and D123I for inverted.


Glad you got the programming issue fixed, what was wrong?
 

V1 and V2 firmware ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. This is because of minor hardware differences inside of the radio as well as some features the V2 radio has that the V1 radio doesn't. Overall these features aren't really used in GMRS and are more towards commercial radio For example enhanced fleetsync functionality and the available use of some MDT hardware.

I have several TK880's both V1 and V2. V1 radios I used to build a small portable repeater that I can set up anywhere, even in a campground. The V2 radios are installed in our vehicles and while we use fleetsync for radio ID and text messaging on my local repeater, there isnt much use for it when I go onto another system. This is because the Fleetsync codes we use may be different to other users.

Anyways, If the offer is right, $20-30 for just a radio, or maybe $50 for radio and mic in fair condition, go for it, Anything more and you could likely do better on Ebay.

There are several ways of doing this and each has its advantages and drawbacks.

Personally I use a portable duplex (two frequency) repeater. This does require a tuned duplexer. The duplexer I have is commonly refereed to as a "Flatpack" duplexer. It does need to be tuned which most local radio shops do for $50-$100. Because of the nature of flatpack duplexers (Being cheap and not as good as BPBR duplexers) once they are tuned you should be able to use any of the 8 repeater channel pairs without needing to be retuned. The flatpack I use is a Celwave UHF duplexer, and I can run from .550-7250 with no issue. The drawback of this system is power output. The more TX power I put into the duplexer the less efficient it'll work causing de-sense of the signal into the RX radio. While the repeater will run 25W, I find I usually run it on low power using 10W of power instead. This system is also likely most expensive as it requires more equipment to operate. Still, my repeater build came to about $250 not including the antenna, feedline, or power source. 

Simplex repeaters are the cheapest option as they use the least amount of equipment or parts or even run off existing installed radio hardware. The unit does not require a duplexer or second radio to operate. It operates by recording audio from the radio, then replaying the audio back into the radios mic port. The drawbacks; Simplex repeaters can only store so much audio, usually only 30 seconds worth, limiting messages to 30 seconds. The second drawback is that your forced to wait for your message to be retransmitted then the unit to store your friends reply before it gets back to you. This isnt too bad during regular chitchat, though it could be annoying, but in emergency situations, seconds can count and having to wait a while for a reply is sometimes not doable. Thus the invention if the RPT-2K.

The RPT-2K is similar to a duplex repeater, in fact thats what it is in a sense, however instead of using high power mobile radios, it uses two low power portable radios. Most times this set-up is used for cross-band repeating which is not allowed in GMRS, however you can use it on two radios withing the same band to make a duplex repeater. You should use a duplexer here as well, however at low power, (.5-1W) the desense is easily avoided and the system works ok. The downside is that your limited to low power, and most portable radios are rated at a 15% duty cycle which means long talk sessions could burn the amplifier out on the TX side of the repeater, especially if you plan to use Chinese radios. 

In the end it comes down to how much money you wish to spend and what you plan to do with the system. For me, I plan to use the repeater for camping trips and special events for family and friends to keep in contact. Given the fact that we may go hiking or fishing on the boat I wanted to make sure that should an emergency arise that we could easily communicate without having to deal with dropped cell signals. The setup I have easily covers a few miles so we don't have to worry about signal and it is easily deploy within 5 minutes of getting to the campsite.