Lscott
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Posts posted by Lscott
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4 hours ago, WRQI583 said:
GMRS is meant to be analog for people just simply trying to communicate between family and friends. Would I personally love to see DMR on GMRS. Absolutely. But not with the limited space and lack of control over the band the way it is now. Ham Radio is the place to be for digital because you have all sorts of freedom to experiment with it any way you want, minus encryption.
IMHO the argument for digital voice on GMRS has nothing to do with trying to make it a "Ham Lite" type hobby service or experimenting. I believe it it would improve the quality of the service, better with less noise communication. That is the primary reason why somebody would want to use the service, they have a communication need, the clearer the better, while digital voice provides that out closer to the range limits compared to analog FM.
The key to the whole thing is how to go about it without creating a major disruption to the existing user base.
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7 hours ago, intermod said:
I had not seen NXDN programming before. Was is the "Common ID" field? Is that the "RAN"?
Completely agree that this is easier than DMR. I hope some of the the DMR settings (not the slot, CC, Talkgroup) that nobosy ever plays with will get accepted and not be present eventually.
But also, Kenwood makes things much easier compared to the others.
G
The programming example is for a dPMR radio. NXDN programming isn’t too bad.
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Just now, WRYZ926 said:
I am not against DMR and I would definitely be interested in a simpler to use system.
So do I! When I was first messing with DMR my initial reaction was WTF?
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42 minutes ago, WRYZ926 said:
@Lscott I read the last PDF file you posted and you do make a good point about using channels 8-14 for digital. I can se this being done as long as it does not interfere with other channels/frequencies and it is an easy to use system for the average GMRS user to understand and use. DMR on the amateur radio side can be confusing and hard to program radios/repeaters for some.
There will always be some that will stick with analog over digital. I am one that is sticking to analog (for now) due to the complexity of DMR and the different iterations by the different manufacturers.
I know that I am only one person with my own opinion. And we all know what opinions are like. I have never cared for how FRS and GMRS shares the same channels/frequencies. But there is no stuffing that cat back into the bag.
You're one of the examples of those that have no interest digital voice modes, at least DMR, on GMRS. That's perfectly fine. Any implementation has to take those kind of interests into consideration. Undoubtedly, and from other posts, you aren't the only one.
NXDN is not very complex to use. It can be used without talk-groups, unlike DMR. That deceases the complexity for the user.
The attached images are screen shots of the programming software for the example Kenwood dPMR radio in that file. As you can see it's very simple. One is for the analog channels while the other is for the digital ones.
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5 minutes ago, Sshannon said:
The only way to do digital is to make a complete switchover. After some date stop certifying new products for 95B and 95E. People who have them can continue to use them but there will be no analog replacements available.
The issue you'll have the owners of those radios will soon realize the channels will become crowded with digital users rendering them almost impossible for analog FM use. That could happen quickly. Digital TV is a case in point.
Also once people see no new analog FM radios are being sold they will most likely hang on to them much longer than otherwise might be the case. There are those who hate the sound quality of various digital voice modes and have zero desire to use any of them. If a large enough group objects to digital voice all over the channels, with their objection filed with the FCC, that's going to be a problem that needs a solution.
I did a quick update to my opinion paper on how it could be done and some suggestions on how to deal with some of the potential objections by existing users.
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12 hours ago, WRKC935 said:
Still didn't answer the question about why YOU don't bother to go petition the FCC about making a rule change allowing DMR on GMRS.
Before even petitioning the FCC there needs to be some general concuss about how to do it. Without that the FCC mostly would just deny it at the outset. So far can't really get to that point yet. DMR might not even be the mode to use. I haven't really read any good debate if there are better digital voice modes that could potentially be used. I believe there are. I posted an opinion paper I wrote outlining my thoughts. If anyone is interested doing some searching on the forum should turn up references to it.
From various posts on the Internet digital voice is being used in pockets around the country. I don't expect that to change without some huge FCC enforcement action, which at this point in time doesn't seem to be high on their agenda. What's more likely to happen is the practice will continue and grow. Once it gets out of hand the FCC can do what it's done before, throw in the towel and make it legal. They did it with the combo GMRS/FRS radio mistake. Buggered around with the rules such that what people were already doing illegally is now legal.
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20 hours ago, intermod said:
Of course, but we are comparing analog to digital. Your statement is a bit too broad. Empirical tests have proven that for a given digital voice quality (BER-related), DMR, NXDN and P25 are about 1-3 dB better at rejecting interference than legacy wideband analog signals are (See TSB-88.1, Annex A). Its 6-8 dB better than narrowband analog. This is the same data the Part 90 frequency coordinators often refer to when licensing those systems.
That annex is huge. I think the relevant section starts on page 92 of the linked document. Most of that annex after that is just the specific test conditions for each mode.
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20 hours ago, intermod said:
The familial license is just the right amount of regulation to keep business and large incompatible organizations from monopolizing it and running legit GMRS licensees off.
When the rules changed to allow license free FRS radios to run 2 watts isn't going to help matters considering business are free to use them.
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4 hours ago, gortex2 said:
Ham can't even agree on a digital format.
The problem with digital voice modes is there are so many of them. I have radios for D-Star, DMR, NXDN and P25 Phase 1. Nothing yet for YSF, or dPMR which is mainly an EU license free service like FRS here but digital. Haven’t seen it in North America yet.
If that wasn’t enough there is a new one, M17.
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15 hours ago, Radioguy7268 said:
There are no GMRS Part 95 radios that will do Digital today, so unless you want to wait for a possible rule change, wait for manufacturers to respond to the changes and build GMRS digital radios, you would end up using Part 90 equipment anyway.
If you’re referring to recent manufacture yes. There are some older radios that will do digital and have FCC Part 95 certification. I own a few of those. Of course I can’t use the digital part under the current rules.
The attached file is the FCC grant for one of my NX-300 radios with certification for Part 95 for all modes it has the capability to transmit. The various radio features are listed in the attached brochure.
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On 11/23/2023 at 11:07 AM, AdmiralCochrane said:
Per varying modes maybe, but DMR seems to be extremely popular on VHF
Just about all the DMR repeaters by me are on UHF.
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17 hours ago, gortex2 said:
I don't know why the huge influx to the service happened
1. No test required.
2. License fee is now only $35.
3. Licenses good for 10 years.
4. Cheap Chinese radios.
- AdmiralCochrane, WRXB215, WRUU653 and 2 others
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On 7/23/2023 at 9:50 PM, lougasp61 said:
HF is much more appealing than 2M or 70CM.
VHF and UHF is much more challenging to make DX contacts. Most of the digital voice modes are on UHF. Satellite communications is really fun. Particularly when operating the sats with the linear translators for SSB.
I have full privileges for HF. Just haven’t gotten the urge to bother with it in over 20 years. I operate VHF and above, mostly mobile.
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I've caught some very sporadic DMR traffic on channel 18 by me. It was a few transmissions during the day lasting a few seconds each. I haven't heard it in many months. I suspect either somebody miss programmed a radio, or did so deliberately. In any case it stopped and I suspect the local FCC might have had a hand in ending it.
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1 hour ago, WRZF693 said:
Does anyone know of a solar charger
Again these aren't cheap. Petty much everything about going portable with solar isn't going to be cheap. Anyway these are good solar charge controllers. You can get them for various battery chemistries. They also do charge controllers with custom voltages.
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On 11/18/2023 at 11:52 PM, AdmiralCochrane said:
Funny that you should mention the SRH320A ... I use it on my Kenwood TH6A.
I have one for my Kenwood TH-D74A tri-band radio.
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On 11/17/2023 at 9:06 AM, sjl777 said:
If you unlock the GMRS version and set the power to High you will transmit on 10W. I just tried it out and the radio shows it was transmitting at 10W.
Just because the radio says it's doing 10 watts means nothing. Put it on something like a calibrated watt meter. Some years back people were buying Baofeng radios that "claimed" to do 8 watts. Once they were tested on a watt meter the real power output was around the 5 to 6 range. Oh well just typical for a Chinese radio to over state the spec's.
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On 11/6/2023 at 4:15 PM, PA141 said:
If you can open up your budget a bit to $4-500, the Icom 706mkII or IIg will give you HF plus 6,2M and 440 with the G model.
I would recommend ONLY the 706MKIIG model. There were some issues with the previous ones. I ran the IIG mobile for a number of years in a van when I had only my Tech Class license. It was a riot! I made some long range DX contacts on 6M SSB and a few on 2M SSB. At that time you needed the Tech Plus license to use anything below the 6M band.
If you buy one used see if you can get the remote kit for it. The front face plate can be detached allowing the body to be located out of the way.
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1 hour ago, WRZF693 said:
Hey folks..
I know the TidRadio 10 watt ham radio isn't meant for GRMS frequencies, but if you used it as a ham radio couldn't you just type in the GRMS channels and use say a repeater channel so you'd get the full 10 watts ? Not that I'd ever do so, but just wondering.. Could you buy the h8 ham and then just program in the GRMS frequencies and erase or only use the HAM channels to listen to ? Again, not that I'm suggesting this to anyone, just wondering if it would work? Like in Emergency?
Are there any higher powered HT's that have all the frequencies available to use in an Emergency?Thanks in advance.. Great forum!
As mentioned using a Ham Radio on GMRS is not legal.
On the other point about high power HT's.
Most people find out the Chinese radios rarely generate the claimed power output. I've seen claims of HT's that can do 20 to 30 watts plus. Just not believable.
The other point is the higher output power drains the battery pack faster resulting in far less operating time. Also the radios are not 100 percent efficient. For various reasons the real world efficiency is about 50 percent. That means if the radio is doing an honest 10 watts of output the battery is being drained at a 20 watt rate. Further the 10 watts of heat generated, 20 watts input minus the 10 watts of output, is soaked up by the tiny body of the radio. Those palm sized radios are the worse. Even a 5 watt radio turns into an uncomfortable "hand warmer" when operated at high duty cycles. A few Hams have destroyed their HT's power output stage doing this from the heat generated and the high internal temperatures. One posting else where the Ham said he did this more than once to the same radio. There is a reason why you see the duty cycle specifications of 5-5-90, 5 percent transmit - 5 percent receive - 90 percent standby.
- ka9ntz and AdmiralCochrane
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On 11/12/2023 at 4:18 PM, Sshannon said:
We could bring them back here and vote on them?
Using mail-in ballots?
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On 10/30/2023 at 10:26 AM, Tiercel said:
I remind everyone that I have had a GMRS radio for a week. I have not even completed the study for my Ham test. If your answers wouldn't make any sense to the random guy on the street, then they won't make sense to me.
It's like any other hobby specific area. They all have their funny jargon. After you're in it a bit you'll pick it up quick enough. Remember just one thing, DON'T BE AFRAID TO ASK QUESTIONS! That's how you learn.
- Bisquit4407, Tiercel, WRYZ926 and 1 other
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22 minutes ago, WRZF693 said:
Anyone own the 900 mhz radios and digital radios I guess in this frequency range? Are they good? I see them advertised as licensee free from time to time.. I think it was the 900 mhz.. Just wondering if anyone has experience with them?
I believe if you do a search on the forum here you'll find some threads on the topic. From what I've read, I don't own any BTW, people have had very good luck with the Motorola radios. These are "spread spectrum" frequency hopping radios and are only compatible with like/similar models from the manufacture when programmed with the same "hop set."
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19 minutes ago, WRZF693 said:
Hi Everyone..
I wanted to add some channels to just listen to and I went to RadioReference.com and added some channels that were mostly VHF frequencies and I have yet to hear a word out of those channels.. With that said, I did notice that the local police and state police, and fire, etc, have all been upgrading to a system called Safe or something and I think it's called a Trunking system with encryption. They still however list some VHF frequencies for the fire department and local ambulance, etc, and even a HAM club just down the road.. I've not heard a word.. Only NOAA seems to be using these frequencies.. Anyone else have luck listening to VHF channels? I've not tried the air wave channels for airports, etc.. I'm mostly interested in Police, but that seems to be impossible now as they all seem to be upgrading to new systems.Don't depend on the accuracy of the frequencies you see in their database. They depend on users to send them info, which they try to verify. I have noticed some retail frequencies for a local mall where the store has been out of business for a number of years yet the entry remains in their database.
I had attempted to get some frequencies added a few years ago but I was told by the admin for that area he wouldn't do it without further confirmation. After that experience I just don't bother.
If you're not hearing any traffic on the frequencies it's very likely they are no longer used. One fairly good check however is look to see if there is an FCC call sign listed. If so then look it up on the FCC's database. Under that call sign there is a tab for frequencies licensed. If the ones you have are not listed then for sure they aren't used any longer and you can delete them.
Digital Direct Mode (Simplex) on 462 MHz GMRS Channels
in General Discussion
Posted
That's one of the key areas that has to be examined and the potential interference issues resolved. I covered that in the attached opinion paper in my prior post in this tread.