marcspaz

@KAF6045, 12ga was a good choice, for sure. I have done a few multi radio installs where I brought 8 gauge to a 45amp distro block, just to keep everything clean. Most of the time, its 10 or 12, depending on the distance and if its a 100w or 50w radio.

@WRUF442 the antenna height you mentioned indicates that it is a half wave antenna and should not need a ground plane. Also, if you are good with cutting a hole in the roof, just put the mount directly in the roof. If you switch to an antenna that needs a ground plane, that aluminum roof panel will do just fine. @wayoverthere and @KAF6045, you don't need 6 feet... the safe power density at 50w FM 100% duty cycle for 5 minutes is 1.55 mw per cm squared. That is only about 3 feet. But I don't know anyone getting a full 50w out of a no gain antenna and I don't know anyone who is keying full power for 5 minutes either. Most people with 50w radios and a no gain antenna see about 32-35 watts. If you calculate for that, plus 2 minutes of exposure and a 50% duty cycle (2 min on, 2 min off is more realistic), now your safe distance is about 1.5 feet. Of course, the further away it is, the safer you are. Just wanted to point out numbers based off of more realistic usage.

I hope this doesn't turn into a TL;DR post. LOL Randy gave you some good info. I'll try to expand on it a bit. Just keep in mind that this is a Line of Sight service and height is everything. If there was a GMRS user in orbit around the earth, you would be able to chat back and forth with 0.25 watts and have a perfect copy. Start putting stuff in the way, and it becomes a problem, regardless of the antenna or the power you use. I belly laughed at this one. LOL First, low SWR isn't everything. The metal in the body of the vehicle is actually part of the antenna. Typical of most antennas, half of the radio signal comes from an electro-magnetic reflection from the metal panel. Whatever metal the antenna is connected to needs to have a good ground and have between 7 to 14 inches of surface for optimal performance, as well. Our corner caps being plastic may not cause you to have a "bad" SWR, but it will definitely cause performance issues. On a recent offroad trip, I fixed two antenna installs (one on a Gladiator and one on a Wrangler) by just relocating the mount to the hood from the corner cap, and both people instantly started talking about how much better the performance was. On the ride to the trail, we lost each other after about a mile of separation. After the fix and on the way home, at one point we were close to 15 miles apart as we went our separate ways and still talking. Also, I know a lot of people love those ghost antennas, but in my personal opinion, they are not good. The different antenna wavelengths actually serve a purpose. The bare minimum for a good quality signal is a 1/2 wave, and a ghost antenna isn't it. A 1/2 wave has zero gain, but it can hear stations with significant elevation differences. Say you are at sea level and another station is on top of a small mountain near you, say... 5,000 feet ASL. You will both be able to talk to and hear each other. While the 1/2 wave is a little taller than a 1/4 wave, it doesn't need a ground plane, so it can be mounted on plastic, fiberglass or even in free space. A 1/4 wave performs just like the 1/2 wave, but because is smaller, it needs a proper sized metal surface for the electro-magnetic reflection to produce the other 1/4 wave of the signal, making the complete half wave needed. A 5/8 wave antenna has natural gain characteristics to it. However, it needs a metal reflective surface, and while it can hear and transmit further on the horizon and get a bit better penetration of obstacles in the line of sight, it is at the sacrifice of hearing in drastic elevation differences. So, I have two antennas. I use the Midland MTXA26 high gain antenna around town so I can get plenty of distance. Then, I also have a 1/4 wave Tram 1126-b for when I head to the mountains or when I am driving someplace that is very hilly... such as pretty much any New England state I visit, WV... etc. That antenna needs a ground plane. I don't have any experience with that antenna, but on paper it looks good. As I mentioned, it can't hurt to have a gain antenna and a 1/4 wave antenna. Especially because the 1/4 Tram antenna I have only cost like $10-$12. Can you share a picture of the mount? I think most lip mounts can be on the top or side of the hood. I just picked the side so its not in my line of sight. I don't even notice it in my peripheral vision. I have gone through this with a few friends. The asked me to test their install to see what the power and SWR look like, and get very upset when they only see 32-35 watts. Basically, what is happening is, you may have a power supply that is providing 13.8vdc at the output of the power supply, but you are going to lose voltage as the power cables get longer and/or thinner. So, if you test on the bench and there is only 6 inches of power line, you get the full 13.8vdc and the radio will output 48-49 watts (its almost never 50). Then, when you install it in your vehicle, you may end up with many feet of wire between the radio and the alternator. I have seen and done some installs that used 16'-18' of wire. Wire has resistance and the voltage drops as the wire gets longer. Plus, connections that are not soldered nor use a nut & bolt style connection are going to have noticeable voltage drops, too. And the higher the current draw goes, the more heat is generated and the more voltage loss you have. Sometimes you can prevent losses by making the wires as short as possible, soldering all connections, and using a heavier gauge wire. But, you are still going to see losses. Also, an antenna will skew the results too. The only way to get the real value is to use a dummy load. I gave you a lot to read... but I hope it helps.

I have a portable 50w repeater system that runs on 14vdc. I use 2 antennas and 2 masts because they are easier and cheaper to transport than a $1,500 duplexer the size of a cooler. I can endorse that as a method, no problem. It's not ideal for a permanent station, but it 100% works. That said, 20 feet is not far enough apart. Even with as little as 5 watts, I get desensing unless the antennas are at least 150 feet apart. You may not realize the receive is being desensed until you turn the transmitter off. When I run the full 50 watts, not only are they 150 feet apart, but I put the transmit antenna at a lower elevation than the base of the receive antenna, to help reduce the desensing even more. Hmmm I wonder if I should try stacking so the two verticals so they are in the nulls of each other. I might test that. Man... I know RG142 has a high frequency rating, but I would never use it for GMRS or lower portions of UHF. Real-world, my RG142 had more than 8.5dB of line loss for 100 feet, compared to 4.1dB with RG8x and 3.4 with LMR400. Have you done any metered loss testing?

I personally have zero experience with the Nagoya NMO-200C antenna. On paper it looks fine. I'm not sure how a 1/4 wave antenna and a small mount on the hood or swing gate would look worse/not as clean, compare to whatever you plan on engineering. You are describing more, larger parts. Again, just my opinion, but mounting the antenna on the back of the Jeep via a riser/pole with the Tram 1470 will not only not look good, but you will likely not net you any noticeable gain. Plus you are exposing yourself to additional risk of physical damage to the Jeep and antenna, too. Again... your money, your vehicle... but in my own personal opinion as a life long and current Jeep owner who has tried just about every combination antenna type there is, if I were a gambling man, my money would be on the mobile antenna properly installed on the swing gate without the riser and 1470, actually outperforming the same antenna installed on a riser with the 1470. I hope you prove me wrong... good luck and have fun!

I have to say, I agree with others who said you may want to get an amateur radio license and HF radio. Based on what you said you want to accomplish, it sounds like you want a shortwave radio receiver (to listen) or an HF radio (and license) to receive and transmit. GMRS really isn't intended or used for what you want to do. With typical GMRS (UHF) range throughout much of the nation being restricted to only a few miles when station to station, and the service intent, I would say that GMRS is the wrong choice. Of course, there are limited exceptions, such as urban/suburban areas that are heavily saturated with repeaters and users, areas with many high elevations and many users, or communities that have intentionally organized an emergency radio network. Still, that is traditionally for local communications.

Just my opinion, while it will work, it is way too much hardware and effort to make the antenna system work. If you are going to insist on using it, use a Tram 1126B antenna to keep the height down However, I would ditch the ground plane kit and just buy a half wave antenna, which is about 12 inches tall, or a 5/8 wave antenna and mount it on the hood or swing gate. The Midland MXTA26, which has 6dB of gain (32" high), is one of the 2 antennas I use. The other is the Tram 1126B antenna. Which one I use depends on where I am and what I am doing. They both work very well. Also, why do you want to install this over the roof line? An antenna on the hood or swing gate will net you about 4.5 miles of range on level ground, while moving it to top of the Jeep will only extend range another 0.5 miles... maybe. Again, just my opinion, the cost and level of effort (not to mention appearance) its not worth doing an 'above the roof line' install.

Welcome! Where abouts are you? I am in NOVA / Prince William.

Thankfully I have not. That would be one expensive tree trim, that's for sure. LoL

I was playing out in the woods today, supporting a 12k race, and I had this monster in the truck to extend range. I know some of you have some portable setups. I figured it would be fun to share them here. Especially if it's a bit unconventional. Whatcha got?

Not until just now. LOL Seriously, when I made the cables, I looked and didn't see anything horrible. I still use all of the cables. So, I dropped two of them from the gear for a few minutes and put them on the analyzer. The complete cables are almost identical. The values are so close and near where they should be, that for what we do in GMRS, it's not worth calculating reflective coefficients. UHF Connector (@ 465MHz) / N Connector (@ 465MHz) Reactance = 19.2 ohms / 28.3 ohms Resistance = 50.5 ohms / 49.55 ohms Inductance = 45 nH / 45 nH Capacitance = 16.4 pF / 21.4 pF

@Elkhunter521, the rain finally stopped, so I was able to take some pictures. I figured I would provide details for the hood mount, both for you as well as other Jeep JL Wrangler and JT Gladiator owners... but I don't currently have access to a JL Wrangler to get pictures of the swing gate routing. This is just the hood mount. Possibly someone who has a Wrangler (2018 JL/U to current) who has run the cables through the inside of the swing gate can get some quick pictures for you. My apologies if this is a bit long. I'll try to let the pictures do the talking. NOTE: You can do this on either side. I selected the driver's side because it keeps the GMRS radio antenna away from my factory FM radio antenna, and away from the but-plate of my farm jack. First, make sure the mount is at least 7 inches away from the windshield, so the A-pillar has minimal impact on performance (if any). On our generation, that corner cap is plastic. I put mine where I did since I have metal reflective surface from the light bar mount. However, if you have trouble getting a good SWR in the same location as where mine is, push it forward so there is 7 inches of actual hood, trailing the antenna down the hood line (about 14-15 inches forward of the windshield). This will be ideal for a 1/4 wave reflection. I ran the wire so I had plenty of room to open the hood and have cable to spare. It is literally just the cables natural spring tension holding it in place. You are going to want to route the antenna cable behind the fender, following any factory cables that are there. However, I ran mine under the cosmetic cover of the windshield seal on top of the tub, instead of cutting the seal where the factory wires go inside the tub. So, on the other side of the fender, have the cable come out into the area of the door jam. Use a trim panel removal tool to remove the two push pins in the seal and the side panel of the dash, Lift the bottom of the seal out, away from the body, to expose a gap between the windshield and the tub. There is a second, main seal, and some foam rubber you want to put the cable in between. Once it is in place, lower the cosmetic flap back into position and put the two pushpins back. If the cable is in the correct location and placed correctly, the rubber should go back into place with no resistance and sit flat, as it did before you put the cable in place. Hope this helps.

You can definitely use the mount style that Randy showed on the swing gate or the lip mount on the hood, like I have. You can mount all of it on the swing gate too, but I went with the hood for GMRS and swing gate for the CB to keep them far enough apart that one radio wouldn't blow-out the front end of the other. The swing gate is a good place for the higher drag and heavier CB antenna because is more sturdy than the hood. This is my last Wrangler... I'll take some new pictures of the Gladiator in the morning so you can see the cabling option from the hood. Been raining all afternoon/night here. Randy pulled his cable through the seals, which works fine, I did that for a bit with no leaks. If you want to hide the cables (which eventually I did), you can run the antenna line inside the swing gate and inside the fabric tube at the hinge, too.

Issue resolved.

What CB antenna are you trying to use? Something like a 104" whip or a Firestick, or something more like a Willson 1000/5000? I can share some detailed images of how my Gladiator's GMRS is setup (would be the same for the Wrangler). I used a lip mount on the hood and it works fantastic. For the CB, i would recommend a 104" whip and a heavy duty stud mount that will bolt to the swing gate. It will require running a ground wire to the swing gate and the mount for best performance. Other antenna styles haven't worked for me in the past, on the Wrangler.

That looks great! I'm sure it's going to work a lot better. When using it (and testing) try to keep the antenna and tripod about 24 to 28 inches away from other objects for best performance.

Now that I have looked at the picture on my PC instead of my phone, I will say you should move the mount all the way up and remove the camera mount and adjustment handle. That will impact your SWR and antenna performance. Make sure there is nothing next to the antenna.

I can't really answer the tuning question. I'm not familiar with that antenna... though the adjustment sounds like it would be okay. I can tell you that there is nothing to be concerned about with the camera tripod mount. I used to do it all the time and performance was not impacted. If you take it outside, just make sure you hang a sandbag from it so the wind doesn't blow it over.

I have never owned one... so I did not know this. I am really surprised they have people adjusting them... unless the target customer is more technical rather than Joe Q. Homeowner.

Never mind. I'm a dumbass. ----------------------------- I have a question... why are you going to try to tuning it? It's a stacked 5 phase element high gain antenna with the center frequency being very close to GMRS frequencies. Due to being a stacked phased element antenna (5-1/2l), if you cut the top or bottom, you are only adjusting one element and throwing the phasing completely out of whack, causing massive issues with receive and transmit, regardless of what the SWR meter says. You can't even adjust all 5 elements because the LC network of the antenna is tuned for factory resonance. I would just leave it alone.

Oh, wow! Yeah, I did not see that post. That seems very sketchy, even if it's a private business. I fully agree with you in that context... I appreciate the info. No worries. I'm glad we were able to figure out the disconnect. It was a harmless mix-up on both our parts. I'm glad everything stayed civil while we discussed the topic. I know it seems like a strange thing to say, but that doesn't happen often when people are in disagreement on the internet (pretty sure I am guilty of that myself, recently) . It makes it much easier to continue to enjoy the conversation.

@WRKC935, I think I am missing something. You keep mentioning something the OP wrote, but I don't think I am reading something correctly. What post are you referring to? Also, you keep implying that the governments aren't allowed to integrate ARES/RACES into their emergency response plan, provide hardware, resources or access to resource. However, that is not the case. The process that is in place that allows ARES/RACES to exist and function along side the government is codified in many states Also, ARES/RACES gets its jurisdiction/authorization directly from the the FCC under the Part 97 rules. We are individually federally certified by FEMA and DHS as well. We train side by side with federal, state and local government. This isn't some setup where hams just kinda BS their way into a government Emergency Management team. As far as incidents happening, I can tell you that my team has been activated several times since I have been working with ARES/RACES. There are several states that I have worked in where we needed portable repeaters to service an affected area. We also need things like NVIS to talk from an affected area to 100+ miles away, to the State Emergency Operation Center, as part of the logistics branch of the Incident Response team. We cross technological boundaries, setting up portable networks for data, video and voice traffic for all agencies in a multi-agency response, allowing everyone to have common platforms. The stuff we do (ARES/RACES in conjunction with local, state and federal government) is 100% legal, above board, and just as accountable to the People as the government agencies we serve. In fact, the Shared Resources High Frequency Radio Program (which incorporates non-government entities into government communications operations) was approved by Ronald Reagan and other leadership in the Executive Office of the President in 1988. My team in Virginia even trains as often as 6 times a year with the US Marine Corps. Unless I am just completely misreading your posts, that's why I keep disagreeing with what you're writing.

Okay... I'll rephrase. The two groups that founded and drove ORI are now both defunct. I will definitely agree that there are owners who still honor the spirit of ORI, for sure, but I said it failed because the 2 groups are gone and no one is formally driving the initiative. Hopefully that makes a bit more sense.

It's called the Open Repeater Initiative. It failed. There was a nationwide group of repeater owners who participated with the Open Repeater Initiative to set their ch20 pair (462.675/467.675) to use tone 141.3 (known as 4a). The idea was, to make the repeater open to the traveling public through common knowledge. If you found a repeater on the rCH 20 pair with a 4a PL, the assumption was to be that you don't need special permission to use that repeater.

Did the vehicle need to be jump-started or did the battery deplete to below 11.8 volts? Other recommendations above are good, too.