ChaosVortex

Yeap, yeah. This is the internet, no one lies, I will ignore how it is a telegram saying "amateur radio", you totally caught me lying because there is the proof about how you signed it with a gmrs license. Good thing you called me out. God bless the internet being the one place where everyone one's the truth no matter!

Ah yes because this is the internet where no one lies, and you just conveniently have no way of showing this, aside from you said so. Of course I will just immediately take what you say as the honest truth. ** WINK **

If I am factually wrong, then why did the ARRL not allow for GMRS users to sign the petition? Granted the ARRL has since changed positions on the matter due in large part to the fact that not enough people who had a amateur radio license's did not sign said petition, but that is after the fact. You are trying to state I am wrong after the fact as well. Seems like it is, because you are the one continuing to focus on what I said, and in some sense white knighting the ARRL, and refusing to let others hold them to accountability. I am not sure why. I need to ask a rather serious question, which is how is it always assumed I do not have my amateur radio licenses? Because I refuse to poster with showing how large my antenna is, or not spraying down threads with male spurious emissions suddenly I know nothing about what I speak? Granted I could state how long I have held, and what class my licenses are, but I am more interested in this mentality of "You do not think like us, ergo you are not one of us". 1901 - Amateur Radio is Created 1914 - ARRL is Created 1947 - HOA (though not formal) is created 1967 - HOA is formally created 1970 - GMRS is created 1986 - HOA Creates the rule of no Antenna's 2025 - ARRL declares they will petition all HOA's. Why has it been thirty nine years from the HOA's initial rule to the ARRL making the petition? If Amateur radio was indeed the sole mission statement of the ARRL, then why wait until now for such action? The logical conclusion here is that it has nothing to do with ham radio's best interests, and has everything to do with a ruling that is effecting a member or members of the ARRL as a whole. So let us not pretend it is nothing other then a individuals sole interest and nothing more. Why must everything come down to you claiming "feelings" then act like you are discrediting what I am speaking about. Does it bring some small satisfaction to claim I am wrong, while you do the very same thing which some how makes it correct? I believe I should state that head games have never worked on myself. I fully agree with the statement, however you contract what you just said in your very next statement. If you look back at the timeline I supplied in this very thread, I will restate what I said: Allowing thirty-nine years to pass before wanting to object a ruling leads me to the logical conclusion that this is not about amateur radio users as a whole, and merely about a ARRL board member wanting to benefit from a pseudo outrage. So I believe we can stop pretending to defend the ARRL all together. Because you know the very grassroots petition claims, and I quote "stressing the importance of Amateur Radio in maintaining communication when other systems fail, especially in hurricane-prone or disaster-stricken regions". Do you honestly want to claim that all those SHTF preper's with their multiple amateur radio purchases will somehow magically fall in line with nets when it comes to said disasters? I believe I should point out the ARRL has opened up the petition to now include GMRS, due to the fact that the ARRL could not collect enough Amateur Radio Licenses (Did you make sure to sign it with your own). So I guess I need to ask why even have this morally righteous attitude when it comes to the other radio hobbies. At this point you are in the territory of white knighting for ARRL while demonstrating you look down on any and all whom do not talk or think like yourself, which is rather odd to see. So your feelings thus making what you state not factual. There should be no surprise I will now abide by the very logic you have tried time and again to employ on myself from this point on when speaking with yourself. If your solution was to say "Well, CB and GMRS users should stop using their hobby and get a Amateur Radio" was the solution then yes you did offer one. Do I want a solution? Sure, and I even stated as such time and time again. However you have correctly stated you assume (incorrectly) many a thing about myself. You realize what you just said was "I didn't say you were wrong, but you are wrong". You know for someone whom claims when I speak, it is not based in fact, yet I have not seen one factual statement from yourself. Much like the timeline that I supplied I actually research, and even see far larger pictures then what appears to be your rather narrow views. So please do not try to use head games about how you are correct when all you have present was your feelings on the matter and nothing else. I highly encourage you to follow this link which is directly to the ARRL petition website where you can now (yet again) see the ARRL is asking GMRS users to use their GMRS call signs to sign up, so again I will ask you (as I have been) if GMRS is outside of the ARRL's scope why even bother asking for assistance from the GMRS community? What is it about being a Amateur radio that gives this overly inflated ego to believe one is better then anyone else? Much like how is it because I do not think or act like those with the overly inflated ego makes them think I do not have a ham ticket?

I had used growth rates for a sense of scale, as I stated previously; I do not understand what makes Amateur radio the one true hobby of the airways to rule them all. Much like I do not understand what constitutes as a "effective antenna". From what I understand, then ARRL is doing the HOA petition based on the premise of "communications during a emergency situation", which my little mind tends to think means during those times the more people on different radio types the better.

This shall be interesting then, I am sure. Now before I reply to the rest of your comment, I have no idea when or even how this mentality of "I am better then you" started, especially when I look at the numbers that many are highly uncomfortable looking at. When it comes to Amateur Radio the earliest data from the FCC I can find is from 2019, which is 384,145 - people hold a Technician license, 175,949 - people hold a General License, 147,369 - people hold a Advanced License which might at the surface might look impressive, however as of the current year of 2025 ham bands only see a 1% to 2% growth. Meanwhile as of 2024 there were a total of 250,000 GMRS license holds that grows (or grew) 1,000 never per week, which again by going with the numbers will be eclipsing ham radio very soon. Lastly and certainly not least, though there is no accurate way to track how many CB users are out there, however with citizen bands radio projected to become a $148 Million dollar market by 2029 I would have to say the amount of users are indeed growing. This is a slightly misleading statement due to some information either willingly being withheld, or simply just a case of one not knowing. Though I will be getting more in depth this with this below, and because I find repeating one's self rather tiresome I will say that power levels and number of bands that can be used is dependent on what level of license a ham operator owns. This is under the assumption every single licensed ham operator enjoys or even wants to be on HF. There are many that do not want to do the standard "My call sign is, here is my location, here is your signal report, NEXT! Here is my call sign, here is my location, here is your signal report, NEXT! Here is my call sign, here is my location, here is your signal report", Many do not want to do contesting, Many do not want to do "they who have the largest log book wins", but I digress. Many have had great success with hiding Yagi's, vertical antenna's, end fed half waves, etc in plain sight, however as the purpose of this thread is about ARRL and HOA allowing amateur radio op's to have antenna's up on the basis of emergency operation, I am perplexed at how making contact with someone in the Domian Republic will help locally, much like how contacting someone in Texas over a disaster in New York will help locally. You have not been to reddit then. All right all dry humor set aside why must one use a 3 element bean on 80 meters? Is there some unofficial rule that states one must use this type of antenna? But that is just me not understanding the correlation between "look what I have and I can do, and you cannot" and getting a better signal. Though the 1.800Mhz to 1.900Mhz requires everyone to use no more then 5 watts, claiming all hams can use 1500 watts pep on certain bands is very misleading and as I stated before is tied to the class of your license. Technicians can operate with a maximum of 200 watts pep on 80 meters, 40 meters, 15 meters, 10 meters Generals and Advanced can operate with a maximum of 1,500 watts pep on 80 meters, 40 meters, 15 meters, 10 meters However All Amateurs are limited to 200 watts pep on 30 meters All Amateurs are limited to 50 watts pep on 219 - 220mhz of 1.2 meters (though no one uses it) Beacon stations are limited to 100 watts pep Stations operating near military installations are limited to 50 watts pep I have yet to see HF frequencies set aside from GMRS, I have no idea what other services you are referring to in the 70 centimeter band. Though all Amateurs can use up to 1,500 Watts pep on 70 centimeters how many have actually used that for a base/mobile? I find it interesting my yeasu ham handhelds use 5 watts, while my retevis gmrs handheld's use 10 watts, so should I parade that gmrs handhelds are better then amateur radio? One again this is misleading, and relies heavily on the fact you are comparing bands that constantly get propagation to bands that do not. However the question not addressed here is what makes amateur radio, and thus the amateur radio frequencies the one true band to rule them all? When it comes to an emergency situation should we not strive to have "all hands on deck" with as many different radio types in action as possible? I truly hope this comment was not aimed at myself. It would seem I should once again remind the thread that I have held a Amateur License, A CB operator for far longer then I care to admit, with a recently added GMRS license. I feel like stating how long I have had my Amateur licenses, what class they are, or how many years I have operated a CB or even a GMRS (including but not limited to how I used the frequencies in a paid professional position) as I do not prescribe to the vertical antenna measuring, or spraying the thread down with spurious emission's due to posturing. I will however say I have seen both sides of the fence, and I have yet to see why one side has a overly inflated sense of entitlement over the other services out there, much like many seem to think my opinion comes from someone not licensed in the Amateur Radio field purely because I do not walk the morally superior road.

This is going to be a fun one I see. So, I am not being factual when I say ARRL has this is the kind of exclusivity of being for Amateur Radio and only Amateur radio? So I am "factually wrong" and state that "it is not what the ARRL is about" because of "my feelings", while seeming to act like I do not hold a Amateur License myself. One of these days I am sure someone will be able to tell me where this sense of self righteousness comes from. Granted I could go into how long I have held my ham ticket, what class it is, how long I have used a CB, and how long I have held a GMRS license but I am not interested in playing who has the longer vertical antenna. See, what I cannot understand is why when it comes to HOA and this antenna petition, why act like Amateur radio and thus the radio operators for Ham Radio have such an exclusive right? Is Ham radio the one true hobby to rule them all? Or is it some ingrained sense of you get to do it, and no one else thus you are superior by default? I guess I should add to your waxing poetically that the ARRL is now practically begging GMRS to sign the petition because not enough ham ticket owners have signed it. I suspect that it will not be long before the ARRL cries out to the CB Operators to sign it as well. I sense you are now going to claim it was purely sarcasm, however this statement speaks volumes, for you did all that writing to claim I was wrong then turn around and say this.

See,, this is the issue: Being individuals firing off complaints. The FCC will never care. Now if those individuals where to offer a service to the public, something in the medical or public safety field, then watch how fast the FCC jumps on the case (even when they are shut down).

If it is anything like the area I am in, then being listed in the FCC Data base on the FCC website means little to nothing. I recall when I had my first license (which I then cancelled), I made my first contact and then got told I was not on the my gmrs website, so how could the other person know for sure that I was licensed. This is a weird trend that I am noticing is extending to amateur radio, except you need a stellar out of this world profile on qrz, and I have no idea when or why this trend is happening.

I am about to have a wildly unpopular opinion which is this is the kind of exclusivity that no one needs. Just how self centered is the ARRL being? Do they understand this is kind of putting out the message of "hey, you are not good enough to help as you do not have the same ticket we do". I was always raised to accept help, even when you really did not need it for the next time you could use it no one will be interested in doing it. Now granted some with a gmrs ticket will sign or would want to sign out of a self interest, as in "well if the Amateur Radio people did it, then I can go down the same route", but hey we are human and it is in our nature to do so. If the ARRL did not want to have gmrs call signs on their petition then the most they could have done was quietly remove them behind the scenes. Though come to think about it now, and the example being set as I am a dual license holder and I do not live with a HOA, nor will I ever live with a HOA, and no one in my family is a ham operator, so I guess I can sit this one out and not sign it.

Things are never truly gone. Just go to the ailunce Website then re-download the current firmware, and just re-flash your HA1G.

See? This is what I mean. There is no need to act like your antenna is larger then everyone else's. Looking past the obvious bait, I will state that even with a forum like this, one must have thicker skin. If you value the opinion of complete strangers that you will never met, then by remaining on the forums you are in truth doing it for yourself and will garner no sympathy from me. Please state where this is going on, give club details. What is deemed as short distance to you, in miles. Also how do you negate propagation? Your radio has a on/off setting. Turn off the radio. There, see how fast that goes away? If you are not making up rules, then why are you concerned about the rules?

We might think the same, however our approaches are vastly different. I do not believe in charging into a conversation then act like my Dipole is the largest in the room, and there is more then enough room to have people disagree with me. I find people are more open to talking with honey, not talking with vinager. Well this is where I will disagree on your opinion, solely based on if the check-in net is tolerant to people just learning how it is done, then this could be a secondary tool in the tool box for when a natural disaster occurs. As I wear three hats (CB'er since the 90's, GMRS, and Amateur Radio) I am very interested to know what antenna's are being used, and how far propagation wise one could reach. Can you please specify "trying to use it like ham" for me. There is a multitude of ways I can take this, however I want to be clear in how you meant it. I will state a overall impression which is you are stating the GMRUS is trying to be authoritative, yet it appears you are doing the same. Why become that which you have issues with?

I am going to toss my low watt transmission into the fray here. I have read what was said here about this GRMSU group plan, and I for one cannot really get behind the idea due to the conflicting information that was presented as there are plenty of red flags going up. The reason being and I am sure it is not the group owners intention however the whole thing comes off as a thinly disguised attempt to control the masses on what radios they use, how they use the frequencies, etc. The reason why I say I personally have read flags is due to either the rather ambiguous statements, which you will not clarify or the multitude of contradictory statements. I will now take the time to demonstrate what I mean: 1) "GMRUS was created to be a community-focused advocacy and education group" My question becomes (as will all "advocacy and education" groups) what are your plans should questions, concerns or complaints arise from those within or even about your group? Do you have plans for an oversight committee or shall you have the owner have final say? What are your contents of infractions? How do you plan to carry out disciplinary actions to those incurring those infractions? How do you plan to make those incurring infractions public? Falsely flagging John Doe's GMRS' license because he said something you do not like, or using a radio you do not like is not going to cut it. 2) "to create a supportive and educational community for GMRS and education groups and FRS users, empowering them with the knowledge and skills to effectively use these services." I am rather confused. How can you say the above, then in the very next sentence state "growing community of radio users who are drawn to the simplicity and accessibility of GMRS and FRS". So which statement is true? Does GMRS have a simplicity and accessibility, where anyone can gain a free FRN, then pay $35 (current year prices), grab a radio and go? Or is GMRS something that needs to be studied for and then taught (by you of course)? I cannot help but get the impression you want to turn GMRS into other radio services, which by your own words do indeed cement that impression. 3) "We are not seeking any authority over the service" This is yet another conflicting statement. You claim you are not seeking authority over the service then you state (and I quote): "Our core mission is the exact opposite. We believe that education is the best tool to combat misuse of the airwaves. By providing accessible training on proper radio etiquette, programming, and emergency protocols, we aim to elevate the standard of operation and make the GMRS experience better for everyone. An educated operator is a responsible operator". Followed by "a modest membership fee is about sustainability for a non-profit organization. Any funds collected would go directly toward operational costs like hosting a website, developing training materials, and covering insurance for events" These very statements are indeed seeing yourself trying to seek authority over the service. 4) "We have immense respect for the HAM community, but we also recognize that GMRS serves a considerably different and equally valid purpose" Another contradictory statement. If GMRS was its own entity then why even mention you want the following: training workshops, "Elmer" mentorship for licensing, and community events? You are in truth wanting to turn GMRS into ham radio which I can only imagine is solely based on the fact that GMRS operates in the expanded 70CM Band (462 MHz to 467 MHz). At the end of the day GMRS stands for "General Mobile Radio Service". It does not stand for "Professional Amateur like Radio". What I mean in the situation where I walk down from our house to the lake with my radio on channel 15 (462.55 MHz) and my wife wants to speak to me, we can have a natural conversation, where we are sarcastic or joke with each other. If I happen to fart sounding like the inception sound effect we can laugh about it. There is none of the pomp and circumstance like Ham Radio such as "N0NYA, K3TTY -- John Doe what are the atmospheric conditions like today? (inception sound effect fart heard at the house), sounds like bad weather, should we activate an ARES net?" There are many more statements you have made that I would love to make a comment on, however that would come off as a personal attack, and I would much rather focus on the core of what was said. Granted you can state you should be allowed to have your group, even claim others must see the merit it brings, however you should allow others to be wary, and even either question or want no part of your trying to organize some form of a leading authority for taking that is something inclusionary of all into something exclusionary to only those you deem worthy of using. PS: I have held a Amateur Radio license far longer than I care to admit, and I understand far more than I let on. I do not wave it in people's faces due to the fact that I simply do not care how people behave when it has zero impact on my or my family's lives. That said and to be contradictory myself; I will speak up when I see any form of gatekeeping taking place into a hobby I am passionate about.