gman1971

So it appears that Rugged Radios was marketing as Part 90, radios that really can only be legally used by Hams - since arbitrary front panel TX frequency selection is a no-no for Part 90. Good - fine 'em.
 
Being stupid is totally free - but that doesn't mean it is without cost...

I have to admit I am surprised that the FCC does not seem to clearly mandate as part of its certifications that the radio firmware not allow Tx operation on frequencies and power outside the radio’s certification. When I read the rules I personally conclude that if the radio is not limited to specific frequencies and power by the nature of its hardware design then it becomes the responsibility of the radio’s firmware to keep the radio in compliance. I was recently surprised to discover that an otherwise legal FCC 95e “certified” radio was still fully capable of Tx operation on all amateur UHF frequencies (plus more) without hacking it, but also that it could transmit higher power on those GMRS frequencies where such power is not permitted. While the average person may not stumble on this it does shed light on the shortcuts the manufacturers are taking perhaps due to unclear language in FCC regs. While I am also a license amateur and permitted to use non-certified radios on amateur frequencies this may not be an issue, but the fact that this is possible on a GMRS radio that is not supposed to have said capability clearly shows a gap in the certification process. It would seem that based on the assertions in the FCC document that Rugged Radios has been exploiting this exact type of shortcoming.
 
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM
 
 
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Happy Thanksgiving back atcha!
 
 
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From the grumpo-gMan1971, the Motosnob...  
 
Anyhow... happy Thanksgiving to all... God Bless and GodSpeed!!
 
g.
 
 

About darn time. I didn't believe what I read on another site, but these radios seem to be branded as portable scanners too...  who knew.
 
G.

+1 to mbrun.
 
Also, remember that radio is a SNR game, or a Signal to Noise Ratio game.... sometimes the Signal might still be there, faint, but masked by the overwhelming Noise... much like light pollution under the night skies hides the fainter nebulae, stars, etc... you throw an H-Alpha filter, and all of the sudden the faint wonders of the night appear much clearer...  same with radio.
 
A few feet higher might not make the range noticeable better, but it seems to make the current link quality a bit better... and sometimes every bit counts.
 
Also, remember that not all antennas radiate perfectly towards the horizon, there are nulls on the radiation pattern, both vertical and horizontal... and problems with grounding, problems with feedline, etc... they all introduce nulls on the pattern. So if a subscriber is in one of the antenna nulls will have the same effect as being behind difficult terrain.
 
Wish I lived in a place with no obstructions... with no angry RF firebreathing broadcast 1400 foot towers... 
 
G.

If you watch the following YouTube video you start to get a clearer picture of what line of sight without obstructions can do for your UHF range. Here the users are demonstrating 27km range using a handheld .5 watt radio over in Europe. Their elevation comes from being high on two opposing hillsides.
 

 
One thing I have come to realize much better is that it is not just sufficient to get the antenna above nearby obstructions but you must also get it above a good percentage of all obstructions between the transmitting and receiving antennas. While the signal might be fully blocked by a hill abruptly, it does pass through and around foliage and many other obstacles but indeed it is attenuated by them. Place a good stand of trees between those same set of radios used in the video demo above and you suddenly you find yourself at .5 miles while the radio horizon might actually be 6 miles.
 
In some recent modeling that I did (and already shared) using an online coverage calculator I was able to see first hand that modest increases in height can be met with insignificant range improvements, even over mostly level terrain. Whereas when I modeled a doubling or quadrupling of antenna height I observed more appreciable increase in coverage.
 
When there are no obstructions, radio range is mostly affected by the radio (antenna) horizon. When you are above the horizon, the rest of the real-world’s obstacles placed in your way are your enemy.
 
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM
 
 
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If you don’t know about it already... http://www.repeater-builder.com

Well, wouldn't this be considered an adapter too? an adapter to the recessed threaded connector inside the radio? I mean, the fact that there is a thread inside the radio means you could buy an RG400 cable that threads into the back of the radio and go straight to the cavity/duplexer/antenna... etc.
 
Correct?
 
G.
 

Meh... a CCR quality with a higher price tag... pass. Also, for that price you can find used XPR5550 radios on eBay.
 
G.

and if it only was the frequency stability issue.... what are people expecting here? an APX8000 level of frequency stability with an APX8000 grade receiver? 
 
Lets face it: its just another piece of overpriced CCR garbage. There is plenty of high quality Moto/Icom/Vertex/Kenwood gear available on places like eBay that will be far better than that. 
 
But, its your money, waste it accordingly.
 
G.
 
 

Meh... a CCR quality with a higher price tag... pass. Also, for that price you can find used XPR5550 radios on eBay.
 
G.

On the Motorola CM200/300 & PM400 radios, there is a readily available BNC antenna connector to replace the Mini UHF standard one. It simply screws in. No soldering or special tools available.
 
While this example is from the UK, they’re available from US sources as well. https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTOROLA-BNC-ANTENNA-SOCKET-FOR-CM200-CM300-PM400-5886751Z01-FREE-SHIPPING/352424840907?epid=22021562587&hash=item520e284ecb:g:dYIAAOSw1zpbT4El

Just get a used Motorola/Kenwood/Icom/Vertex instead of anything made from Retevis, TYT, Baofeg... those are garbage, with 26.99 special one-wonder chips POS receivers. Range will be measured in tenths of a mile, rather in tens of miles. 
 
You can find higher quality used commercial grade LMR gear for dirt cheap on eBay, which will work better than any of that Cheap China Radio CCR garbage.
 
...but its your money, waste it accordingly.
 
G.

Is this your Battle Group?...nice! you spotted the cheap skates just part of the kamikaze squadron hanging in the abandoned junkyard.
 
The Mother Ship!
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/d49/alincastre1223/theshack.jpeg

I totally agree these XPR repeaters are flooding ebay right now with different price range, Ok I'm putting the R70 today for a test run its funny that Motorola skip built-in CWID on this one...

About a -10dBm difference at equal distance in free space, 145 vs 460 MHz, but then you can also have much higher gain antennas for equivalent lengths, so in the end its mostly a wash... provided you setup things right, emphasis in "setup things right". 
 
G.
 

Well, my recommendation goes to a 2nd hand (used, but not abused) Motorola XPR4550 mobile. These XPR4550 are very nice, and they can be found in decent condition for around 100-150 bucks on the bay, cable can be had for 20 bucks, and the legacy CPS can be purchased on eBay as well. These mobiles have a proper superhet receiver with a multiple tuned varactor front end, which will allow you reach more than 2 miles on a lot less power than 50W. To give you an idea, my XPR6550 portable, (which uses the same receiver as the 4550 mobile) can easily reach 1.5 miles on just 1 watt. Where? in the Madison WI area, which is super-hilly  suburban terrain... All my 6550 radios are used (2nd hand), some have small scratches, etc, but the scratches didn't stop them from demolishing all the crap inexpensive radios I own... 
 
Some background: most of those GMRS cheap mobiles usually show a 10-20 dBm loss in effective sensitivity, a loss that cannot be made up by just cranking power to 50W. 20dBm means you'll need 100 times the power to make up for it... So, if a radio has 95 dBm effective sensitivity means that it won't be able to hear anything below the 95 dBm mark... vs. a radio which has 115 dBm effective sensitivity, which will be able to hear equally good a signal coming from a 1 watt radio as a 95 dBm effective sensitivity radio would hear a 100 watt signal.
 
That is the importance of having a real receiver with tuned front end... etc.
 
G.

Thanks! I agree with terrain dependant with regards to coverage on the North side I only managing 7 miles max due buildings and elevation while in the South side of the repeater 16-18 miles since this is an less building elevation is lower and mostly plain along a Toll way. I have received my EVX-R70 and another good buy very clean unit likes new I will alternate this with the 8300, my next project will be the MTR's I know SLR's are the future but it's too expensive at the moment.

I have a few Ebay seller which I got my equipment from radios, programming cable to repeaters:
 
Bluemax49ers: Programming Cables-Got all my cables from him reliable very helpful guy.
 
bargain_broker (email Bill Keenan online shop:usedtwowayradios.com): Mototrbo's and Repeaters
 
erac1 (Used-Radios.com): iCOM, Kenwoods, Motorolas, Vertex and Harris Repeaters etc.

Excellent explantion of why a higher end radio will recieve a good signal 20 miles away when a CCR only gets it 16 miles away.  Too bad everyone inside the 15 mile circle will never know the difference.

You need to look at EVERYTHING! And even then you may still get burned. You can get some very good equipment and deals on eBay but it takes time and research what you are buying FIRST before spending your money.
 
I was looking at what was advertised as a TK-3170 UHF radio. Some of the photos looked like they were lifted from the manufactures web site, had that "new" look, not what you expect from a "used" radio. Others showed obvious signs of usage. One showed a partial of the rear of the radio which showed the model as a TK-2170 VHF type, which I would not mind getting anyway, so I ordered it. Well it showed up and it was a TK-3170 alright, name plate didn't match the sellers photo, but for the totally useless band spread of 400 MHz to 430 MHz. It was now obvious the seller was completely dishonest in his listing and knew it, not a common mistake where some sellers get the model or description wrong. That's why I like seeing the name plate with serial number, FCC ID and model number. The seller had a 99.8% rating too, but not after I was done with the feedback. I finally got eBay to refund the cost plus shipping.
 
I've purchased plenty of handheld radios off eBay, have a good collection of them, so I know what to look for but still got burned. So if you don't have experience buying used, don't, or have somebody who does look it over and do your research.

Thank you! lol... yeah, of course nobody would buy an airsoft barrel... ahhaha...  sorry if I wasn't more clear... 
 

I think his point was that there's both good used stuff and garbage on eBay, and it takes some dilligence to choose the good stuff.

I appreciate the heads up on Hytera, I will put them in the "do not do business with" list. I am keeping an eye open for the ham test online. I hear they are doing it but every time I look it is always full. Either way I need to save up for the radios even if I do find them used. I better start looking for a side hustle, not sure what's worse, high end radios or high end rifle scopes and barrels. Man I need to find cheaper hobbies.